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Re: Engine builders, you have my sympathy
[Re: madscientist]
#1673717
09/19/14 09:21 PM
09/19/14 09:21 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Quote:
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crabman,if we had the pricepoint that chevy had ur calls would proly go up.
Yes, perhaps it is the chevy guys that are cheap.....would they pay a thousand or two more for their blocks ?? If so, is Dart and others dummies for pricing their parts way way too low ??
This constant generalizing and bashing Mopar guys by a few that picture themselves as elitists is tiring.
It's not an elitist thing at all. If you want to make 1200 HP it won't happen (for very long) on a passenger car block. You can get a pretty good SBC for about $2000.00, so if you think about that in terms of MoPar selling half of that, would $3000.00 be out of line? $4000.00? We are not talking about typical bracket guys. The number of chevy guys to MoPar does not justify current pricing. I won't even get into availability.
Well, just a little. In 1990, I could have bought as many W-2 heads as I wanted for $99 each. 4 years before that, couldn't get them. By about 1992 the W-2's had dried up. The W-5 was on the way. They didn't produce enough of those and by 99 they had stopped production. I forget what year they started to make W-2's again. The point is...with a little work, the W-2 will easily make 700 HP on 1x4 and 775 on 2x4's. How many chevys will do that? The W-5 will do 50 to 75 more with ease. Why not produce that head in numbers to make the average guy want to buy them, and support them with rockers etc?
BTW, 700 HP in a 3000 door car should go mid 9's at 140 plus. Trim it down 400 lbs and it's a 8 second car.
The point is it could be done but the blocks are over priced and hard to get and the options aren't there. It's an end user problem.
I see 6 pack is taking to me...wouldnt have seen it
being he is on ignore but it shows up in your post..
so he thinks I'm a elitist.. far from it.. but he wont
ever understand that our prices will never be equal..
I've bought some of the big dollar stuff but I sure
am no elitist... but it sure will last longer than
a production block... but he will never know.. he
doesnt build ANYTHING
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Re: Engine builders, you have my sympathy
[Re: madscientist]
#1673718
09/19/14 09:28 PM
09/19/14 09:28 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
The point is it could be done but the blocks are over priced and hard to get and the options aren't there. It's an end user problem.
So who is at fault ? If the Mopar guys have bought up every X-block, R-block, Megablock that has been produced...and bought Every Crate Hemi that has been built.....how on earth can anyone blame them ????
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Re: Engine builders, you have my sympathy
[Re: ]
#1673719
09/19/14 09:40 PM
09/19/14 09:40 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,128
Salt Lake City
camastomcat
OP
top fuel
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OP
top fuel
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,128
Salt Lake City
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Quote:
Quote:
The point is it could be done but the blocks are over priced and hard to get and the options aren't there. It's an end user problem.
So who is at fault ? If the Mopar guys have bought up every X-block, R-block, Megablock that has been produced...and bought Every Crate Hemi that has been built.....how on earth can anyone blame them ????
OK I'm gonna try this one more time, just for sport. If the supplier produces 60 blocks, and the consumers need 70+ blocks, how many blocks does the supplier need to make to keep up with demand? And the bore needs to be 4.700 or bigger, and the stroke needs to be 5.5" or bigger, and the current block and cyl head design only allows for 4.560 bore by 5" stroke, what needs to be done to supply little Johnny a block? Can you say aftermarket bow tie? Sure you can.
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Re: Engine builders, you have my sympathy
[Re: camastomcat]
#1673720
09/19/14 09:47 PM
09/19/14 09:47 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
The point is it could be done but the blocks are over priced and hard to get and the options aren't there. It's an end user problem.
So who is at fault ? If the Mopar guys have bought up every X-block, R-block, Megablock that has been produced...and bought Every Crate Hemi that has been built.....how on earth can anyone blame them ????
OK I'm gonna try this one more time, just for sport. If the supplier produces 60 blocks, and the consumers need 70+ blocks, how many blocks does the supplier need to make to keep up with demand? And the bore needs to be 4.700 or bigger, and the stroke needs to be 5.5" or bigger, and the current block and cyl head design only allows for 4.560 bore by 5" stroke, what needs to be done to supply little Johnny a block? Can you say aftermarket bow tie? Sure you can.
Ok....Earth to lil'Tommy, you're in the wrong forum....
and please have someone else, build, install, tune, and drive it....no sense blowing up more stuff and putting others in harms way....
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Re: Engine builders, you have my sympathy
[Re: ]
#1673721
09/19/14 10:16 PM
09/19/14 10:16 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,667
Arizona
Chris'sBarracuda
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,667
Arizona
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
The point is it could be done but the blocks are over priced and hard to get and the options aren't there. It's an end user problem.
So who is at fault ? If the Mopar guys have bought up every X-block, R-block, Megablock that has been produced...and bought Every Crate Hemi that has been built.....how on earth can anyone blame them ????
OK I'm gonna try this one more time, just for sport. If the supplier produces 60 blocks, and the consumers need 70+ blocks, how many blocks does the supplier need to make to keep up with demand? And the bore needs to be 4.700 or bigger, and the stroke needs to be 5.5" or bigger, and the current block and cyl head design only allows for 4.560 bore by 5" stroke, what needs to be done to supply little Johnny a block? Can you say aftermarket bow tie? Sure you can.
Ok....Earth to lil'Tommy, you're in the wrong forum....
and please have someone else, build, install, tune, and drive it....no sense blowing up more stuff and putting others in harms way....
Dude... You need to go away.. Maybe go hang with Doc Fiberglass.. 
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Re: Engine builders, you have my sympathy
[Re: Chris'sBarracuda]
#1673722
09/19/14 10:31 PM
09/19/14 10:31 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
The point is it could be done but the blocks are over priced and hard to get and the options aren't there. It's an end user problem.
So who is at fault ? If the Mopar guys have bought up every X-block, R-block, Megablock that has been produced...and bought Every Crate Hemi that has been built.....how on earth can anyone blame them ????
OK I'm gonna try this one more time, just for sport. If the supplier produces 60 blocks, and the consumers need 70+ blocks, how many blocks does the supplier need to make to keep up with demand? And the bore needs to be 4.700 or bigger, and the stroke needs to be 5.5" or bigger, and the current block and cyl head design only allows for 4.560 bore by 5" stroke, what needs to be done to supply little Johnny a block? Can you say aftermarket bow tie? Sure you can.
Ok....Earth to lil'Tommy, you're in the wrong forum....
and please have someone else, build, install, tune, and drive it....no sense blowing up more stuff and putting others in harms way....
Dude... You need to go away.. Maybe go hang with Doc Fiberglass..
Chris.. your wasting your time... he is like a fly..
eats s#$t and bothers people
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Re: Engine builders, you have my sympathy
[Re: Chris'sBarracuda]
#1673723
09/19/14 10:35 PM
09/19/14 10:35 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
The point is it could be done but the blocks are over priced and hard to get and the options aren't there. It's an end user problem.
So who is at fault ? If the Mopar guys have bought up every X-block, R-block, Megablock that has been produced...and bought Every Crate Hemi that has been built.....how on earth can anyone blame them ????
OK I'm gonna try this one more time, just for sport. If the supplier produces 60 blocks, and the consumers need 70+ blocks, how many blocks does the supplier need to make to keep up with demand? And the bore needs to be 4.700 or bigger, and the stroke needs to be 5.5" or bigger, and the current block and cyl head design only allows for 4.560 bore by 5" stroke, what needs to be done to supply little Johnny a block? Can you say aftermarket bow tie? Sure you can.
Ok....Earth to lil'Tommy, you're in the wrong forum....
and please have someone else, build, install, tune, and drive it....no sense blowing up more stuff and putting others in harms way....
Dude... You need to go away.. Maybe go hang with Doc Fiberglass..
That was a great addition to this post.....
All the original poster wants to do is bash Mopar guys and blame them because they because they don't buy enough parts....but they bought all the megablocks that they made, which is why he can't find one.....which is why he has a wanted add here looking for one...yet it turns out he wants a Chevy block......  All makes perfect sense.....
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Re: Engine builders, you have my sympathy
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1673724
09/19/14 10:51 PM
09/19/14 10:51 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,128
Salt Lake City
camastomcat
OP
top fuel
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OP
top fuel
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,128
Salt Lake City
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Really, I couldn't afford a 730-830 inch monster. But it would nice to be able to qualify for T/D in a 632 with SR20 heads. That last race I was at I qualified at #33 at 7.28. They took 42. Had to race a blown 540 Chevy that was dialed at 6.88. I took him to the stripe and dumped him, lost by .002. If I would have been 7.0's, I would have not had as much distance between us, and would have had a better chance of winning. would like at at least be middle of the pack. And I know I would be out in most of the central divisionals, or at any national events.
By the way, thanks for all the constructive comments! If I were OK getting in the show with a 499 Indy deal, I would and have run stock blocks in the past. They break at over 700HP, and that's not to say some won't last at 800HP or better, but some have broken at 600HP. 1000+HP combo's parts are just too expensive to risk it. Also, a stock block will cost more in machine work because of the added band aids needed.
That's where my frustration is seeded. But, I think I might finally have the predator ready to go, and it looks like rain for our last race.
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Re: Engine builders, you have my sympathy
[Re: madscientist]
#1673726
09/19/14 11:06 PM
09/19/14 11:06 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
crabman,if we had the pricepoint that chevy had ur calls would proly go up.
Yes, perhaps it is the chevy guys that are cheap.....would they pay a thousand or two more for their blocks ?? If so, is Dart and others dummies for pricing their parts way way too low ??
This constant generalizing and bashing Mopar guys by a few that picture themselves as elitists is tiring.
It's not an elitist thing at all. If you want to make 1200 HP it won't happen (for very long) on a passenger car block. You can get a pretty good SBC for about $2000.00, so if you think about that in terms of MoPar selling half of that, would $3000.00 be out of line? $4000.00? We are not talking about typical bracket guys. The number of chevy guys to MoPar does not justify current pricing. I won't even get into availability.
Well, just a little. In 1990, I could have bought as many W-2 heads as I wanted for $99 each. 4 years before that, couldn't get them. By about 1992 the W-2's had dried up. The W-5 was on the way. They didn't produce enough of those and by 99 they had stopped production. I forget what year they started to make W-2's again. The point is...with a little work, the W-2 will easily make 700 HP on 1x4 and 775 on 2x4's. How many chevys will do that? The W-5 will do 50 to 75 more with ease. Why not produce that head in numbers to make the average guy want to buy them, and support them with rockers etc?
BTW, 700 HP in a 3000 door car should go mid 9's at 140 plus. Trim it down 400 lbs and it's a 8 second car.
The point is it could be done but the blocks are over priced and hard to get and the options aren't there. It's an end user problem.
correct me if i am wrong but did you just say W2's could make 775hp and W5s over 800hp 
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Re: Engine builders, you have my sympathy
[Re: camastomcat]
#1673727
09/19/14 11:08 PM
09/19/14 11:08 PM
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Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
madscientist
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 4,457
Washington
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
The point is it could be done but the blocks are over priced and hard to get and the options aren't there. It's an end user problem.
So who is at fault ? If the Mopar guys have bought up every X-block, R-block, Megablock that has been produced...and bought Every Crate Hemi that has been built.....how on earth can anyone blame them ????
OK I'm gonna try this one more time, just for sport. If the supplier produces 60 blocks, and the consumers need 70+ blocks, how many blocks does the supplier need to make to keep up with demand? And the bore needs to be 4.700 or bigger, and the stroke needs to be 5.5" or bigger, and the current block and cyl head design only allows for 4.560 bore by 5" stroke, what needs to be done to supply little Johnny a block? Can you say aftermarket bow tie? Sure you can.
DING DING DING. We have a winna!
To supply little Johnny a block, the 700 and up HP guys need to stop playing Russian Roulette and pony up, increasing the demand, causing production to go and prices to come down.
When the last 1976 44o pukes it's guts out and there are none to be had, then, maybe the worm will turn. Until then, MoPar BB (and big displacement SB's) racers will suffer with geometrically silly engine combinations.
Just because you think it won't make it true. Horsepower is KING. To dispute this is stupid. C. Alston
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Re: Engine builders, you have my sympathy
[Re: camastomcat]
#1673728
09/19/14 11:13 PM
09/19/14 11:13 PM
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Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 5,183
Porter67
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 5,183
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I paid a premium for NOS X blocks and R1s. I paid 3k a block providing they sonic test good prior to payment. The part that sucks is with both the X and the R1 your going to put about $1500 in a block to have it ready to assemble. So its $4500 bare in the stand properly preped by a ex mopar racer who knows the ins and outs. The X is a very unique block, they do not move or shift. No need to bury then in the backyard. There are more then these on ebay currently. I see R blocks on ebay often. Are not alot of the higher hp crate motors R blocks or 340 resto blocks? But I do understand the shortage as if I were looking I would probably never find one. Good 340 and 360 blocks can as we all know take alot of abuse. Ive cracked one and it I feel was only due to the half fill of hard block holding heat as on shutoff it would snap and pop in the same way you hear your exhaust system cooling off. Jegs has 10 of these. $3300 Mopar Performance P4876381AB R3 Race Block R3 Race Block •Casting # P4532907 •48° Tappet Bore, Must use Race Heads •Deck Height: 9.025" •Main Caps: 4-Bolt, Center 3 Caps - Billet Steel •Dry Sump Oiling System Only •Cam Bearings Not Included. •Rough Bored to 4.050" A minor repaip, Std deck height ready to build $2900 http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Fully-Machin...ccd&vxp=mtrBrand new Mopar R 3 race block 9. 200 deck 4.00 bore steel main caps 50 millimeter roller cam bearing 340 main bore 48 degree lifter bore Siamese $1900 Buy now. http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mopar-R-3-race-e...04653&rt=nc
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Re: Engine builders, you have my sympathy
[Re: madscientist]
#1673729
09/19/14 11:15 PM
09/19/14 11:15 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,128
Salt Lake City
camastomcat
OP
top fuel
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OP
top fuel
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,128
Salt Lake City
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
The point is it could be done but the blocks are over priced and hard to get and the options aren't there. It's an end user problem.
So who is at fault ? If the Mopar guys have bought up every X-block, R-block, Megablock that has been produced...and bought Every Crate Hemi that has been built.....how on earth can anyone blame them ????
OK I'm gonna try this one more time, just for sport. If the supplier produces 60 blocks, and the consumers need 70+ blocks, how many blocks does the supplier need to make to keep up with demand? And the bore needs to be 4.700 or bigger, and the stroke needs to be 5.5" or bigger, and the current block and cyl head design only allows for 4.560 bore by 5" stroke, what needs to be done to supply little Johnny a block? Can you say aftermarket bow tie? Sure you can.
DING DING DING. We have a winna!
To supply little Johnny a block, the 700 and up HP guys need to stop playing Russian Roulette and pony up, increasing the demand, causing production to go and prices to come down.
When the last 1976 44o pukes it's guts out and there are none to be had, then, maybe the worm will turn. Until then, MoPar BB (and big displacement SB's) racers will suffer with geometrically silly engine combinations.
I'm surprised you haven't mentioned you've been telling me this for 20 years.
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Re: Engine builders, you have my sympathy
[Re: camastomcat]
#1673730
09/19/14 11:32 PM
09/19/14 11:32 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
72Swinger
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
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All this pssing match about why its not fair for a 1963 design to live at 1000hp and cost $10K and us "Mopar" guys are missing another boat with the Gen III Hemi that actually can do those things. To bad with the Fiat merger the prices for factory Gen III stuff has DOUBLED in the last year and a half. Still a great way to make power and live. The W8-9 stuff was a breath of fresh air but then there is that BLOCK question again....
Mopar to the bone!!!
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Re: Engine builders, you have my sympathy
[Re: madscientist]
#1673731
09/19/14 11:47 PM
09/19/14 11:47 PM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Quote:
Quote:
And the bore needs to be 4.700 or bigger, and the stroke needs to be 5.5" or bigger, and the current block and cyl head design only allows for 4.560 bore by 5" stroke, what needs to be done to supply little Johnny a block? Can you say aftermarket bow tie? Sure you can.
DING DING DING. We have a winna!
To supply little Johnny a block, the 700 and up HP guys need to stop playing Russian Roulette and pony up, increasing the demand, causing production to go and prices to come down.
When the last 1976 44o pukes it's guts out and there are none to be had, then, maybe the worm will turn. Until then, MoPar BB (and big displacement SB's) racers will suffer with geometrically silly engine combinations.
So a 4.56 x 5 is silly.....but a 4.70 x 5.5 or more is fine....????
And how on earth can someone buy a megablock if there are none available because they have all been bought ??
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Re: Engine builders, you have my sympathy
[Re: ]
#1673732
09/19/14 11:59 PM
09/19/14 11:59 PM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,667
Arizona
Chris'sBarracuda
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 3,667
Arizona
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
And the bore needs to be 4.700 or bigger, and the stroke needs to be 5.5" or bigger, and the current block and cyl head design only allows for 4.560 bore by 5" stroke, what needs to be done to supply little Johnny a block? Can you say aftermarket bow tie? Sure you can.
DING DING DING. We have a winna!
To supply little Johnny a block, the 700 and up HP guys need to stop playing Russian Roulette and pony up, increasing the demand, causing production to go and prices to come down.
When the last 1976 44o pukes it's guts out and there are none to be had, then, maybe the worm will turn. Until then, MoPar BB (and big displacement SB's) racers will suffer with geometrically silly engine combinations.
So a 4.56 x 5 is silly.....but a 4.70 x 5.5 or more is fine....????
And how on earth can someone buy a megablock if there are none available because they have all been bought ??
You are crazy..
When was the last batch of blocks produced.?? I don't know that answer.. (Maybe Zippy could find out)
But I'll bet it was a couple years ago at least..
Same thing for the R3 small block..
Sure, there are no blocks now, but how long did it take to sell that last batch.. 2-3 years to sell 50 blocks.??
Not really worth it..
Chris..
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Re: Engine builders, you have my sympathy
[Re: camastomcat]
#1673733
09/20/14 12:25 AM
09/20/14 12:25 AM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,288
Oregon
sg66mopar
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,288
Oregon
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Quote:
But, I think I might finally have the predator ready to go, and it looks like rain for our last race.
Rain's gone from the forecast. I'll gladly buy you and adult beverage or ten. I think we both could use it. 
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Re: Engine builders, you have my sympathy
[Re: sg66mopar]
#1673734
09/20/14 01:27 AM
09/20/14 01:27 AM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,128
Salt Lake City
camastomcat
OP
top fuel
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OP
top fuel
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,128
Salt Lake City
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Quote:
Quote:
But, I think I might finally have the predator ready to go, and it looks like rain for our last race.
Rain's gone from the forecast. I'll gladly buy you and adult beverage or ten. I think we both could use it.
Are you and Theresa headed this way? That would be a good time.
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Re: Engine builders, you have my sympathy
[Re: Porter67]
#1673736
09/20/14 04:00 AM
09/20/14 04:00 AM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 13,202
aZLiViN
J_BODY
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 13,202
aZLiViN
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Quote:
Jegs has 10 of these. $3300
Mopar Performance P4876381AB R3 Race Block
R3 Race Block •Casting # P4532907
•48° Tappet Bore, Must use Race Heads
•Deck Height: 9.025"
•Main Caps: 4-Bolt, Center 3 Caps - Billet Steel
•Dry Sump Oiling System Only
•Cam Bearings Not Included.
•Rough Bored to 4.050"
A minor repaip, Std deck height ready to build $2900
http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-Fully-Machin...ccd&vxp=mtr
Brand new Mopar R 3 race block 9. 200 deck 4.00 bore steel main caps 50 millimeter roller cam bearing 340 main bore 48 degree lifter bore Siamese $1900 Buy now.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mopar-R-3-race-e...04653&rt=nc
Jegs has NO R3 BLOCKS, NONE, NADA, ZIP! R3 blocks went NS1 last june.... No longer in production. There are none in warehouse, or dealer inventory.
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