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Re: Who's running a 543 Wedge in a Stock Block?
[Re: Dragula]
#1671310
09/17/14 02:27 PM
09/17/14 02:27 PM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,129
Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,129
Bend,OR USA
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Dragula, I had, sold it, a 526 CI motor(4380borex4.375 stroke) in a stock 440 block with ductile iron main caps make over 845 HP on race gas. It was dyno tuned and I ended up melting three pistons on the dyno due to a loose power valve block off plug in the rear carb., I kept leaning all eight barrels down and the motor kept gaining power until it melted those pistons  I didn't pay enough attention to the 8 EGT and AFR from one side of the motor to the other  The new owner has not raced that motor yet, he is building a new car, it isn't done yet, he went through a divorce and so on  My message is the larger motor will make more power and strain on the main webbing, buy a good block or keep the power down below 700 HP and shift it before 7500 RPM  I've seen several stock blocks, 426 M.W. and 440, break the main webs at or close to 650 HP  As Monte said some get away with stock blocks and others have wreck and injured themselves do to block failures while racing, don't take a chance 
Last edited by Cab_Burge; 09/18/14 01:44 PM.
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: Who's running a 543 Wedge in a Stock Block?
[Re: Cab_Burge]
#1671311
09/17/14 03:11 PM
09/17/14 03:11 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 447
lake charles, la
sc4400
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 447
lake charles, la
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FWIW... We ran a stock block 540 with Program caps, good balancer(ATI) on alcohol. Shift at 7000. Had to be 750+hp as it went 7.90 in a dragster. While freshening, it was discovered that #4 main web was cracked. Got a free pass on that one. Aftermarket blocks aren't cheap. But at least we aren't replacing CNC -1 heads!!  or the crank...or the rods...or the pistons...or the pan..you get the idea. RIP
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Re: Who's running a 543 Wedge in a Stock Block?
[Re: gregsdart]
#1671314
09/17/14 08:35 PM
09/17/14 08:35 PM
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,845
Tampa
DusterDave
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,845
Tampa
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Quote:
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I wouldn't plan a 4.5 stroke in a 440 block for anything beyond about 600 hp, and then only if I had a very light rotating assembly and / or a center weighted crank to help relieve stress on the bottom end combined with small port heads....
At that point, why bother with the long stroke if you're not going after a big HP number? Get a Megablock or other aftermarket block, let it eat, and sleep soundly.
The reasons are budget, what's on hand and the torque range desired.
Well, of course, Greg. But, having a limited budget doesn't trump common sense, and most of all, safety. Like Monte said, you'll never know when the bomb will go off, and if it lets go at the top end, the resulting damage will be a lot more than what an aftermarket block costs.
Gone to the dark side with an LS3 powered '57 Chevy 210
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Re: Who's running a 543 Wedge in a Stock Block?
[Re: XXHEMI]
#1671316
09/17/14 09:39 PM
09/17/14 09:39 PM
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Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,669
Wichita
GY3
master
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master
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 4,669
Wichita
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Quote:
When ever I read these threads I get a sinking felling in my belly. I have been running a 541 in my F.A.S.T car for the past 6 years. I have been using a stock block not because of my budget but because of the rules of the class. Which since have changed. I don't believe many of the faster cars where following the rules to begin with but I was dumb enough too???
It has all very good light weight parts in it and has at least 400 passes on it with no issues. It does come apart after every 50-70 passes and always looks good with the exception of the stock cast iron 286 heads. Every season the heads are out for repair or replacement.
Stock block, factory max wedge heads and intake as well as exhaust manifolds. I shift it at 7,000 and it goes thru the traps at 7,500.
So far so good!
Thanks HP Mike
Are you using the stock oil pan pickup?
Crossram intake mods?
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Re: Who's running a 543 Wedge in a Stock Block?
[Re: DusterDave]
#1671320
09/18/14 08:39 AM
09/18/14 08:39 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,986
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,986
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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Quote:
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I wouldn't plan a 4.5 stroke in a 440 block for anything beyond about 600 hp, and then only if I had a very light rotating assembly and / or a center weighted crank to help relieve stress on the bottom end combined with small port heads....
At that point, why bother with the long stroke if you're not going after a big HP number? Get a Megablock or other aftermarket block, let it eat, and sleep soundly.
The reasons are budget, what's on hand and the torque range desired.
Well, of course, Greg. But, having a limited budget doesn't trump common sense, and most of all, safety. Like Monte said, you'll never know when the bomb will go off, and if it lets go at the top end, the resulting damage will be a lot more than what an aftermarket block costs.
Dave, I don't understand the "common sense" comment? I believe we are on the same page. That is, a stock block has its limits. You can only push it so far, then you risk breaking it, and the risk goes up with the stress you put on it like anything else. If a guys budget doesn't have the funds for an aftermarket block, then the build better take the risks into consideration, or the builder better understand the risks.
Increasing the stroke from 3.75 to 4.5 raises the stress on the parts by 44.5 percent. Raising the rpm from 5500 to 6000 multiplies that 44.5 percent by another 20 percent, for a total of 170 percent of the original stress of the 3.75 stroke. If your parts are 40 percent lighter, the whole deal falls back to a two percent increase in stress when you compare a stock weight 3.75 stroke motor to a 4.5 stroke light weight assembly with the rpm limits I talked about. So I see it as apples to apples due to reduced rpm and light parts IF you run it in the right rpm range, and aren't hurting it with a bad tune or nitrous. Most motors can be pushed about 50 percent higher than they were originally designed for. On an old 440 block I wouldn't go that high.
Last edited by gregsdart; 09/18/14 09:06 AM.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: Who's running a 543 Wedge in a Stock Block?
[Re: gregsdart]
#1671322
09/18/14 12:47 PM
09/18/14 12:47 PM
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,845
Tampa
DusterDave
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,845
Tampa
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I wouldn't plan a 4.5 stroke in a 440 block for anything beyond about 600 hp, and then only if I had a very light rotating assembly and / or a center weighted crank to help relieve stress on the bottom end combined with small port heads....
At that point, why bother with the long stroke if you're not going after a big HP number? Get a Megablock or other aftermarket block, let it eat, and sleep soundly.
The reasons are budget, what's on hand and the torque range desired.
Well, of course, Greg. But, having a limited budget doesn't trump common sense, and most of all, safety. Like Monte said, you'll never know when the bomb will go off, and if it lets go at the top end, the resulting damage will be a lot more than what an aftermarket block costs.
Dave, I don't understand the "common sense" comment? I believe we are on the same page. That is, a stock block has its limits. You can only push it so far, then you risk breaking it, and the risk goes up with the stress you put on it like anything else. If a guys budget doesn't have the funds for an aftermarket block, then the build better take the risks into consideration, or the builder better understand the risks.
Increasing the stroke from 3.75 to 4.5 raises the stress on the parts by 44.5 percent. Raising the rpm from 5500 to 6000 multiplies that 44.5 percent by another 20 percent, for a total of 170 percent of the original stress of the 3.75 stroke. If your parts are 40 percent lighter, the whole deal falls back to a two percent increase in stress when you compare a stock weight 3.75 stroke motor to a 4.5 stroke light weight assembly with the rpm limits I talked about. So I see it as apples to apples due to reduced rpm and light parts IF you run it in the right rpm range, and aren't hurting it with a bad tune or nitrous. Most motors can be pushed about 50 percent higher than they were originally designed for. On an old 440 block I wouldn't go that high.
You're right, we are on the same page. Your comment in bold dovetails with my "common sense" phrase, we just word it differently.
Gone to the dark side with an LS3 powered '57 Chevy 210
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Re: Who's running a 543 Wedge in a Stock Block?
[Re: DusterDave]
#1671323
09/18/14 07:23 PM
09/18/14 07:23 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,098
Massillon, Ohio
cudatom
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,098
Massillon, Ohio
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
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I wouldn't plan a 4.5 stroke in a 440 block for anything beyond about 600 hp, and then only if I had a very light rotating assembly and / or a center weighted crank to help relieve stress on the bottom end combined with small port heads....
At that point, why bother with the long stroke if you're not going after a big HP number? Get a Megablock or other aftermarket block, let it eat, and sleep soundly.
The reasons are budget, what's on hand and the torque range desired.
Well, of course, Greg. But, having a limited budget doesn't trump common sense, and most of all, safety. Like Monte said, you'll never know when the bomb will go off, and if it lets go at the top end, the resulting damage will be a lot more than what an aftermarket block costs.
DusterDave this was the same think I kept coming back to. I had stupid money in a 400 block. $1500-1800 more would have got me an aluminum block. Had it in the Cuda ready to fire up and I kept coming back to the same conclusion. This thing is not going to last and I could loose all the money I had in the block or worst my Cuda.
So I pulled the engine. I'll swap out the roller for a solid tappet, put on Eddy heads and shift it at 5800-6000 and race sportsman class. The engine will go in my 67 Belvedere wagon. Now to start saving for a better block to put in the Cuda. Some times we are all just knuckle heads. Lol
Ok
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Re: Who's running a 543 Wedge in a Stock Block?
[Re: XXHEMI]
#1671325
09/19/14 12:42 AM
09/19/14 12:42 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,098
Massillon, Ohio
cudatom
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,098
Massillon, Ohio
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One of my friends is running a mega block. He has had this for yrs. I'd say at least 8. The second I believe is running a world block but not sure. Both are mid 9's and the cars weigh around 3500. Neither has had any block related issues.
Ok
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Re: Who's running a 543 Wedge in a Stock Block?
[Re: DusterDave]
#1671328
09/19/14 12:29 PM
09/19/14 12:29 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,986
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,986
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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I apoligize for affending so many people by asking who races a stroker RB in a stock block.....I had no idea so many people would get so upset about racing a stroker motor with a stock block....I was just looking for relavent info on anybody who had run one and who's kit they used and what issues they encountered. I will probably still go my way if money allows. From our end we see no issue with it as it is only 1/8th more stroke in either direction than we run now.
And I will mention this about after market blocks that many on here say are the best thing since sliced bread....There are all kinds of issues with those as well. At least with a factory block, I know it will assemble well if all the parts I purchased are good. Aftermarket block not so much, and then you have to start those uncomfortable discussions with them so you can get it fixed....Like who pays for it, who fixes it, who pays for shipping etc...
Randy, I wasn't offended. I was just offering my opinion, FWIW.
Same here. Information is all I care about,,,,,,, I think 
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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