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reluctor position #1668343
09/07/14 04:25 AM
09/07/14 04:25 AM
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Rancho Cucamonga ca
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bill8121 Offline OP
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I'm having some timing/rotor phasing issues. The summit dist has a better mech advance then the stocker (stocker don't phase) and it has an additional slot to reposition the reluctor 5 deg before. So I'm going to give it a spin to try to correct it. But I'm having a hard time understanding the workings of the distributor. So here's my questions.

How does the reluctor and the little transformer work in relationship with the coil?

I'm really confused as to why I'm having phasing issues in the first place. As soon as I plug in the advance it jumps 20 degrees. That's with the set screw in the can all the way in. It's ported vacuum not manifold. With the stocker I can only get about 35 deg at 15 initial. I want to see it at 50 deg@2000 rpm, right?

Just trying to get the best outta this 318.

Re: reluctor position [Re: bill8121] #1668344
09/07/14 06:49 AM
09/07/14 06:49 AM
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MoparforLife Offline
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35 is about right to start with with a small block. My 360 ran best at about 32. IMO 50 is too much.

Re: reluctor position [Re: bill8121] #1668345
09/07/14 10:41 AM
09/07/14 10:41 AM
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jbc426 Offline
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How are you measuring the phasing? Are you using and old cap with a large 1/2" hole drilled between the # 1 cylinder and the coil wire and using a timing light to see where it is when it fires?

What do you have your initial timing set at and what total advance are you running. Do you have vacuum advance too?

Last edited by jbc426; 09/07/14 10:41 AM.

1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
Re: reluctor position [Re: MoparforLife] #1668346
09/07/14 01:35 PM
09/07/14 01:35 PM
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Supercuda Offline
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Quote:

35 is about right to start with with a small block. My 360 ran best at about 32. IMO 50 is too much.




Not with vacuum advance included it isn't. I hope everyone realizes that phasing the rotor only adjusts it in one specific point and that as timing is added or taken away (be it vacuum or mechanical advance) the phasing changes. Unless you are running a locked rotor or running a race only setup phasing a rotor is not something to sweat. In a street car it's a waste of time unless the rotor is so far off that it's a manufacturing defect.


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Re: reluctor position [Re: Supercuda] #1668347
09/07/14 05:20 PM
09/07/14 05:20 PM
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Rancho Cucamonga ca
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bill8121 Offline OP
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As of now with the va connected it won't go over 2500 without backfiring. This is a daily driver. So I need the va. Already changed the reluctor position but my main concern is why does it advance so much with the can plugged in at idle? And I want to understand the workings of how the reluctor works in conjunction with the coil. I don't want to just fix it. I want to understand how it works.

Re: reluctor position [Re: bill8121] #1668348
09/07/14 05:40 PM
09/07/14 05:40 PM
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If it advances when you hook up the vacuum advance hose, then you have vacuum applied.

If you truly do have it attached to the ported vacuum nipple, then you either have a defective carb or your idle speed screw is cranked up way too far and you are now into the transition circuit and hence you have ported vacuum at the nipple.


They say there are no such thing as a stupid question.
They say there is always the exception that proves the rule.
Don't be the exception.
Re: reluctor position [Re: Supercuda] #1668349
09/07/14 06:47 PM
09/07/14 06:47 PM
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bill8121 Offline OP
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Makes sense. I did have to disassemble the carb because it was all clogged up. It's clean now. Time for more testing.

Re: reluctor position [Re: Supercuda] #1668350
09/07/14 10:53 PM
09/07/14 10:53 PM
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RapidRobert Offline
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Only vac adv changes rotor phasing from it's at rest with no vac position. Shifts it CCW on a SB around the clock the same number of degrees as the number stamped on the arm. Several ways to correct phasing, drill new roll pin hole(s) in the reluctor like Andy did way back or cut a new notch in the top shaft at the top where the rotor sets down into (may be other ways too). You want it slightly CW from dead center (rotor pointing dead on to the cap terminal center) then the can will shift it CCW & ideally you want the amount of distance from dead on centered to be equidistant on both sides (no vacuum and full vacuum). Then I'd set the initial with the "vac gauge method" then with that number in hand shorten the slots to get 35 total (initial+slots) and that is with vac adv capped then I would play with/adj springs THEN plug in/adj the can. timing and RPM do not change (rotor) phasing. I'd as SuperCuda said get the can on ported and get the idle speed down to a reasonable level (need enough initial timing first)


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Re: reluctor position [Re: Supercuda] #1668351
09/08/14 01:46 AM
09/08/14 01:46 AM
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jbc426 Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

35 is about right to start with with a small block. My 360 ran best at about 32. IMO 50 is too much.




Not with vacuum advance included it isn't. I hope everyone realizes that phasing the rotor only adjusts it in one specific point and that as timing is added or taken away (be it vacuum or mechanical advance) the phasing changes. Unless you are running a locked rotor or running a race only setup phasing a rotor is not something to sweat. In a street car it's a waste of time unless the rotor is so far off that it's a manufacturing defect.




I phased mine so at full advance it's lined up the most with the terminal. I don't have vacuum advance. My initial timing is 22 degrees with 36 total, all in at just over 2000 rpm. My rotor doesn't move very far when I measure it with a timing light through the hole I drilled in an old cap.

My MSD Pro billet was about as far off as it could be when I first checked it. It was effectively between the two terminals. I had to drill a second hole in the cap just to see where it was! The thing was arching back to the correct terminal big time. I was surprised it ran after finding that.

Later, I heard its not that uncommon with MSD distributors.

I disagree that street cars should not be at least checked. It's never a waste of time to optimize the phasing, so the tip of the rotor lines up in with the terminal through most of the range of advance, be it mechanical or vacuum. I believe in favoring setting the rotor to line up with the terminal where it will spend the most time, usually at mid to higher rpms that are seen on the highway or around the city.

Last edited by jbc426; 09/08/14 01:53 AM.

1970 Plymouth 'Cuda #'s 440-6(block in storage)currently 493" 6 pack, Shaker, 5 speed Passon, 4.10's
1968 Plymouth Barracuda Convertible 408 Magnum EFI with 4 speed automatic overdrive, 3800 stall lock-up converter and 4.30's (closest thing to an automatic 5 speed going)
Re: reluctor position [Re: jbc426] #1668352
09/08/14 11:37 AM
09/08/14 11:37 AM
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RapidRobert Offline
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Mechanical (slot) timing (or initial timing for that matter) does not alter phasing, only vac adv does. with no vac adv if the rotor is moving it is due to lower shaft tang/intergear notch slop (or the rotor is loose but they tend to fit pretty tight). With no vac adv being used it's easi(er) to alter/set phasing, on your bench just pump up the can slowly till the phasing is dead on then take the dist to your drill press with hand pump still attached & drill down vertical thru the 2 plates in the right spot then dissassemble & clean everything & lock the 2 plates in that position with a mini bolt/nut with a sleeve on the bolt inbetween the two plates so you dont tilt em when you snug the bolt. With vac adv I like the sweep to be equal on either side of dead center and with a hot eng with it possibly being a little bit closer in the no vac position as that is what it is going to be at at WOT (little/no vac) when required voltage is the greatest & that's when you'd want the least amt of gap. Getting that NAPA rotor with the longer blade is beneficial as any gap outside the plug gap in the combustion chamber is a waste of energy & ups the requied voltage to jump that (excessive) gap. Yes some dists have phasing a mile off. If the intergear slop is allowing the rotor to move say 2 deg up top then that means that the timing can adv/retard 4 deg at the crank at will. EDIT if you are pinning the plates and you need to shift the phasing the other direction (CW on a SB) you can unhook/remove the can & manually move the plate till it's phased, just dont go so far that one of the (3) pedestals is uncovered cuz the plate needs to be supported by them

Last edited by RapidRobert; 09/09/14 01:41 AM.

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