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Need Help Adjusting Hemi Valves #1660816
08/18/14 08:13 PM
08/18/14 08:13 PM
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Danville, NH
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Mopar_Mike Offline OP
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So I'd like to adjust my otherwise stock 426 Hemi's valves. Is there an easy way to do it? I have heard you can have the engine at say 0* and adjust number X and X cylinders and then rotate it to 180* and adjust X and X cylinders etc. Can someone chime in and let me know? Also I have steel gasket and iron heads with stock valvetrain how much should I leave for expansion?
Thanks!


RS23L7 4-Speed



Re: Need Help Adjusting Hemi Valves [Re: Mopar_Mike] #1660817
08/18/14 08:19 PM
08/18/14 08:19 PM
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actionange Offline
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Here's the answer to the first part of the question.

8244581-image.jpg (1223 downloads)
Re: Need Help Adjusting Hemi Valves [Re: actionange] #1660818
08/18/14 08:25 PM
08/18/14 08:25 PM
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Danville, NH
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Mopar_Mike Offline OP
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awesome, thanks Ange..


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Re: Need Help Adjusting Hemi Valves [Re: Mopar_Mike] #1660819
08/18/14 08:28 PM
08/18/14 08:28 PM
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Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing Offline
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The most accurate way is to do one cylinder at a time and not jump around.Start at #1 and do the drivers side and #2 and do the passenger side.As per each cylinder,rotate until the exhaust valve just starts to open and set the intake valve adjustment.Rotate until the intake valve fully opens then starts to close,when it closes aprox.1/2+ set the exhaust adjustment.With an iron block and iron heads set the lash .002 tighter than the recommended hot setting.After warm up recheck at the hot recommended setting.This is assuming your using a solid flat tappet or solid roller tappet camshaft.

Re: Need Help Adjusting Hemi Valves [Re: Mopar_Mike] #1660820
08/18/14 08:29 PM
08/18/14 08:29 PM
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Mt. Eden Ky.
Hemi Allstate Offline
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With iron heads and block, adjust according to specs.

Alum. heads add .006 Alum. heads and block add .012" approx.

Edit: What Bob says for cold setting iron heads and block!
Mark

Last edited by Hemi Allstate; 08/18/14 08:34 PM.
Re: Need Help Adjusting Hemi Valves [Re: B G Racing] #1660821
08/18/14 08:45 PM
08/18/14 08:45 PM
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Suffolk,VA
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dragracedr Offline
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Quote:

The most accurate way is to do one cylinder at a time and not jump around.Start at #1 and do the drivers side and #2 and do the passenger side.As per each cylinder,rotate until the exhaust valve just starts to open and set the intake valve adjustment.Rotate until the intake valve fully opens then starts to close,when it closes aprox.1/2+ set the exhaust adjustment.With an iron block and iron heads set the lash .002 tighter than the recommended hot setting.After warm up recheck at the hot recommended setting.This is assuming your using a solid flat tappet or solid roller tappet camshaft.



I agree with this method. Also, after you set the lash cold, start the engine and bring it up to temp. Then shut it off and check the lash hot. Reset and do the math to get your cold settings.

Re: Need Help Adjusting Hemi Valves [Re: dragracedr] #1660822
08/18/14 10:55 PM
08/18/14 10:55 PM
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Denison,Ia.
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Cuda367 Offline
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I am goiung to rant for awehile in fact been waiting for ths one. First do you really think that that the guy at chrysler had no idea where the cam lobes are on a v/8 with are firing order and was drunk at the time so wanted to screw with us? If so take the time to check where they are next assembly. Ever heard of cycle life? I have no idea if my starting system is going to work for one or one thousand times before I hit the start button in staging and nothing. I have watched guy cycle that system for like 50 times to set 16 valves and tell me they stopped at the exact same place as last time. When I set the dampener to the timing mark there is no Question it is where it was last time. Any change in that valve at that exact piont? That's what I want to know. Yes I use the open close thing when at the track and time is important but in my mind I am close enough for the next round. When I get it home and have time then it will be dead nuts on. Just to through this in I am old enough to have done the set them running and listen for the click or try to use feeler gauge. Hot oil bath from hell etc. etc. I though I had died and gone to heaven the first time I saw the chart for nonrunning valve adj. Never set an another valve running in my life also have not worn out a starting system trying to set valves.

Re: Need Help Adjusting Hemi Valves [Re: actionange] #1660823
08/19/14 11:40 AM
08/19/14 11:40 AM
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Stuttgart, Arkansas
rickseeman Offline
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There is a 4 position chart for stock type cams. I just can't find it.

Last edited by rickseeman; 08/19/14 11:41 AM.

2011 Drag Pak Challenger
Re: Need Help Adjusting Hemi Valves [Re: Hemi Allstate] #1660824
08/19/14 11:44 AM
08/19/14 11:44 AM
Joined: Jan 2012
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Stuttgart, Arkansas
rickseeman Offline
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Quote:

With iron heads and block, adjust according to specs.

Alum. heads add .006 Alum. heads and block add .012" approx.

Edit: What Bob says for cold setting iron heads and block!
Mark




Subtract, don't add.


2011 Drag Pak Challenger
Re: Need Help Adjusting Hemi Valves [Re: Cuda367] #1660825
08/19/14 02:00 PM
08/19/14 02:00 PM
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Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Offline
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The Chtrysler chart was "borrowed, copied," from GM on thier SB valve lash setting procedure, lets see what are the stock cam LSA on a SB Chevy in 1955 compared to todays racing LSA, esepcially on a Hemiriod motor OP, another way is to bring the motor up so the distributor rotor is pointing at #1 wire and adjust that cylinder, rotate the motor 90 degrees clockwise to #8 and do that one and go on down the firing order. I could do it(intake open adjust the exhaust and the rest of the way Bob wrote about ) with a socket and breaker bar manually so I can watch the timing marks on the dampener, this is on a race motor with a degreed dampener that shows a mark every 90 degrees from TDC You can mark yours also or buy and use a timing tape The 90 degree method works fine on stock cams, the other way is better on large duration race cams


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Need Help Adjusting Hemi Valves [Re: Cab_Burge] #1660826
08/19/14 02:19 PM
08/19/14 02:19 PM
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Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing Offline
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Caution With newer cam designs,shorter ramps,base circles and overlap as well as aggressive profiles the "Chart" method is not accurate.

Re: Need Help Adjusting Hemi Valves [Re: B G Racing] #1660827
08/19/14 02:24 PM
08/19/14 02:24 PM
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MD-USA
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Quote:

The most accurate way is to do one cylinder at a time and not jump around.Start at #1 and do the drivers side and #2 and do the passenger side.As per each cylinder,rotate until the exhaust valve just starts to open and set the intake valve adjustment.Rotate until the intake valve fully opens then starts to close,when it closes aprox.1/2+ set the exhaust adjustment.With an iron block and iron heads set the lash .002 tighter than the recommended hot setting.After warm up recheck at the hot recommended setting.This is assuming your using a solid flat tappet or solid roller tappet camshaft.




I use this method with a breaker bar and socket. I am 58 years old and was told to do it this way when I was 20 years old and had just installed my first solid lifter cam. Been doing it for 38 years and haven't worn out a starter yet doing it this way.

Re: Need Help Adjusting Hemi Valves [Re: Cuda367] #1660828
08/19/14 02:31 PM
08/19/14 02:31 PM
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North Alabama
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Monte_Smith Offline
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Quote:

I am goiung to rant for awehile in fact been waiting for ths one. First do you really think that that the guy at chrysler had no idea where the cam lobes are on a v/8 with are firing order and was drunk at the time so wanted to screw with us? If so take the time to check where they are next assembly. Ever heard of cycle life? I have no idea if my starting system is going to work for one or one thousand times before I hit the start button in staging and nothing. I have watched guy cycle that system for like 50 times to set 16 valves and tell me they stopped at the exact same place as last time. When I set the dampener to the timing mark there is no Question it is where it was last time. Any change in that valve at that exact piont? That's what I want to know. Yes I use the open close thing when at the track and time is important but in my mind I am close enough for the next round. When I get it home and have time then it will be dead nuts on. Just to through this in I am old enough to have done the set them running and listen for the click or try to use feeler gauge. Hot oil bath from hell etc. etc. I though I had died and gone to heaven the first time I saw the chart for nonrunning valve adj. Never set an another valve running in my life also have not worn out a starting system trying to set valves.


If you think the "chart" is accurate for every cam and every motor out there, you don't understand how cam timing works. It is NOT accurate, unless your cam timing HAPPENS to be close to what things were when that chart was designed in the 60s...........So which would you rather do. Use a starter up, although if you are worried about that, you may need to invest in a good starter, or drop a valve from improper valve adjustment.

The only PROPER way to adjust valves is with the lifter firmly on the base circle. The ONLY way to KNOW that is to use the method Bob suggested

Monte

Re: Need Help Adjusting Hemi Valves [Re: rickseeman] #1660829
08/19/14 02:39 PM
08/19/14 02:39 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 2,675
Mt. Eden Ky.
Hemi Allstate Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

With iron heads and block, adjust according to specs.

Alum. heads add .006 Alum. heads and block add .012" approx.

Edit: What Bob says for cold setting iron heads and block!
Mark




Subtract, don't add.





Oooops !!!! Sorry about that!
Of course you are correct.

Bad enough I have CRS, now I am thinking backwards too!



1996 Ram 1500 Sport
1968 road runner
1952 Sears Allstate licensed, pump gas, Hemi 5.98 @ 115.73 1.33 60 ft. The best is yet to come. Painless Performance / Street RODDER magazine Top 100 for 2019
Re: Need Help Adjusting Hemi Valves [Re: Monte_Smith] #1660830
08/19/14 02:59 PM
08/19/14 02:59 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing Offline
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B G Racing  Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

I am goiung to rant for awehile in fact been waiting for ths one. First do you really think that that the guy at chrysler had no idea where the cam lobes are on a v/8 with are firing order and was drunk at the time so wanted to screw with us? If so take the time to check where they are next assembly. Ever heard of cycle life? I have no idea if my starting system is going to work for one or one thousand times before I hit the start button in staging and nothing. I have watched guy cycle that system for like 50 times to set 16 valves and tell me they stopped at the exact same place as last time. When I set the dampener to the timing mark there is no Question it is where it was last time. Any change in that valve at that exact piont? That's what I want to know. Yes I use the open close thing when at the track and time is important but in my mind I am close enough for the next round. When I get it home and have time then it will be dead nuts on. Just to through this in I am old enough to have done the set them running and listen for the click or try to use feeler gauge. Hot oil bath from hell etc. etc. I though I had died and gone to heaven the first time I saw the chart for nonrunning valve adj. Never set an another valve running in my life also have not worn out a starting system trying to set valves.


If you think the "chart" is accurate for every cam and every motor out there, you don't understand how cam timing works. It is NOT accurate, unless your cam timing HAPPENS to be close to what things were when that chart was designed in the 60s...........So which would you rather do. Use a starter up, although if you are worried about that, you may need to invest in a good starter, or drop a valve from improper valve adjustment.

Monte





Take Monte's advise, that chart has been invalid for years.If you don't believe it's not try a test,take a modern performance cam of 550 to 660 lift,set it by the chart.Either before or after warmup check the lash with the tried and proven method recommend(exhaust opening,intake closing)and you will find in some cases the lash will be .005+- loose or .005+- tight.Will it run?sure but what results will occur?Take the larger solid flat and roller cams and you can cause catastrophic failures.Even on a Hemi 550 lift hydraulic cam you will find that chart method will cause issues and failure.We always set lash on new builds with the intake manifolds off and the lifters on true bottom base circle.Use the chart at your own risk and let other choose the correct method for the cam techonology of this century.I have never set valves on a running engine,solid or hydraulic in the last 30 years.

Last edited by B G Racing; 08/19/14 03:44 PM.
Re: Need Help Adjusting Hemi Valves [Re: B G Racing] #1660831
08/19/14 08:09 PM
08/19/14 08:09 PM
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actionange Offline
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Geez. I was just trying to help Mike.
He's got a fairly stock Hemi engine that I'm almost positive doesn't have a roller cam.
Mike chime in and help me please.
Oh and by the way I know someone who STILL uses the "chart method" and hasn't suffered any sort of catastrophic failure...

Re: Need Help Adjusting Hemi Valves [Re: actionange] #1660832
08/19/14 09:36 PM
08/19/14 09:36 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing Offline
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Quote:

Geez. I was just trying to help Mike.
He's got a fairly stock Hemi engine that I'm almost positive doesn't have a roller cam.
Mike chime in and help me please.
Oh and by the way I know someone who STILL uses the "chart method" and hasn't suffered any sort of catastrophic failure...




No one is saying it can't be used.I will work with most early style cams like 490 and 509 and many of the old style that have a wide base circle.Read carefully the post about the newer type of cams.Comp Cams and others recommend the method we suggested.If your comfortable and confident with the chart method stay with it.With the aggressive cam designs today running too loose or too tight cam beat cams,lifters and valve train componants to death.The question was asked,answered and explained to the best of my and others knowledge.This knowledge was based on years of engine building and racing.It's the readers choise of how they want to adjust their valves and it's fine to disagree.We explained how we do it and why,remember there are many diffrent ways to skin a cat.Myself I start with a dead cat,not much chance of getting scratched or hurt.

Re: Need Help Adjusting Hemi Valves [Re: B G Racing] #1660833
08/19/14 09:41 PM
08/19/14 09:41 PM
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actionange Offline
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Only a dead cat? What happened to the other farm animals?

Re: Need Help Adjusting Hemi Valves [Re: actionange] #1660834
08/19/14 09:45 PM
08/19/14 09:45 PM
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Danville, NH
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Mopar_Mike Offline OP
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Thanks all for your responses and advice.. Yes, I am using a hydraulic cam that is about .560 lift.

The fact that it is hydraulic lifters would that make up for any error that everyone is mentioning?

I have tried the per cylinder adjust but I never seem to be able to tell "when the valve starts to open" seems even that can be a matter of opinion as in how much is "just starting to open"

So basically thats why I want to us the chart method


RS23L7 4-Speed



Re: Need Help Adjusting Hemi Valves [Re: Mopar_Mike] #1660835
08/19/14 10:04 PM
08/19/14 10:04 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,910
Eighty Four, PA
B G Racing Offline
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Mike,because of all the issues with hydraulic lifter is is more important to use the method we suggested.Put the exhaust in the proper just starting to open position,loosen the intake adjuster untill you feel free lash movement,spin the pushrod and tighten the adjuster untill the free lash is gone and the pushrod just contacts the lifter cup,then preload by tightening the adjuster 1/4 to 1/2 turn or the specific preload recommended by the manufacture.Lock the adjuster with the jam nut.On the same cylinder rotate till the intake valve opens and closes over 1/2 way and repeat the process on the exhaust.Many people adjust hydraulic lifters incorrectly and don't get the preload tight enough and the lifters are noisey and many times the lifter doesn't pump up and push rod may jump out.Sometimes they adjust them too tight and collaspe the lifter making it hold the valve open and damage the valve train componants including the cam.Hopefully I have been helpful in explaining,a lot of damage has been seen by incorrect processes.If your concerned about getting the lifter in the correct position you can uue the pushrod with the adjuster backed off and follow the lifter and cam movement with the pushrod.thumb:

Last edited by B G Racing; 08/19/14 10:11 PM.
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