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Switch from 10-30 to 20-50 pressure change? #1659131 08/14/14 11:24 PM 08/14/14 11:24 PM
Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 984 Tennessee H Hemi ragtop OP super stock
Hemi ragtop OP super stock H Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 984 Tennessee	I have been fighting oil usage in a 2d gen HEMI for over 2,500 miles. The first suggestions were intake sealing. With the help of Proformance gaskets, I am confident that the intake is sealed. Still I have oil usage, (one quart in 100 miles). The funny thing is, my buddies don't see oil smoke while following me, the pipes and plugs are a light tan. While at the Nats, I talked to several "celebrity" engine builders and several HEMI owners. The consensus is: change from 10-30 to 20-50 oil. I have been using Brad Penn. One owner told me that 18 YEA,RS AGO he changed to 20-50 and has not had a usage problem since. Does anyone have any input on a HEMI that is just driven? My engine is set up with "loose" clearances, forged pistons, Teflon seales etc.

Re: Switch from 10-30 to 20-50 pressure change? [Re: Hemi ragtop] #1659132 08/15/14 12:59 AM 08/15/14 12:59 AM
Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 9,827 MI, usa dvw master
dvw master Joined: Mar 2006 Posts: 9,827 MI, usa	Quote: I have been fighting oil usage in a 2d gen HEMI for over 2,500 miles. The first suggestions were intake sealing. With the help of Proformance gaskets, I am confident that the intake is sealed. Still I have oil usage, (one quart in 100 miles). The funny thing is, my buddies don't see oil smoke while following me, the pipes and plugs are a light tan. While at the Nats, I talked to several "celebrity" engine builders and several HEMI owners. The consensus is: change from 10-30 to 20-50 oil. I have been using Brad Penn. One owner told me that 18 YEA,RS AGO he changed to 20-50 and has not had a usage problem since. Does anyone have any input on a HEMI that is just driven? My engine is set up with "loose" clearances, forged pistons, Teflon seales etc. If You're using a quart every 100 miles no oil in the world is going to help. If there are no external leaks it's burning in the cylinders. Intake to head,guides/seals,rings, hole in the intake port. 100 miles per qt is not a normal situation. Put some dye in the oil. Then I'd pull the intake and have a look. Lets see the plugs. Doug

Re: Switch from 10-30 to 20-50 pressure change? [Re: dvw] #1659133 08/15/14 01:48 AM 08/15/14 01:48 AM
Joined: May 2010 Posts: 207 warren, mich. D dwayne welder enthusiast
dwayne welder enthusiast D Joined: May 2010 Posts: 207 warren, mich.	Hello!! I had a talk with Wally Booth, a while back about p/c seals on a street motor!! Long story short, p/c are not good on a street motor, because the high vacuum in the intake and on decell manifold vacuum go'es way up!!! The p/c tephlon seal will let to much oil by!! Wally told me they went back to umbrella seal's and that fix the problem!! I would also use the more modern type of silicone seal with the coil spring on top!!! So i would bet that is your problem! Of course there could be a piston ring problem to! Do you have a pcv valve hooked up to? Pull the hose off the back of carb and see if there is oil in the hose! Do sum more checking before you have to take it apart again! Keep us informed what's going on! Good Luck!!!

Re: Switch from 10-30 to 20-50 pressure change? [Re: dwayne welder] #1659134 08/15/14 08:54 AM 08/15/14 08:54 AM
Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 984 Tennessee H Hemi ragtop OP super stock
Hemi ragtop OP super stock H Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 984 Tennessee	I thought about the PVC and installed a filter. No oil collected yet and dry hose. Compression test shows good ring seal, plugs are dry and light tan. Also, no visible smoke from behind the car. I will add that I am using an MSD, mix 50/50 race gas and street gas just for insurance with 10.75 compression ratio. I don't see how it could burn that much oil and not soot the plugs unless the combo above is hiding it on the plugs. Valve seals are a question. The only time I got it to smoke was manualy downshifting at speed with the throttle closed. Then it produced a little. Can anyone recommend a valve spring compressor to use with the engine in the car?

Re: Switch from 10-30 to 20-50 pressure change? [Re: Hemi ragtop] #1659135 08/15/14 10:27 AM 08/15/14 10:27 AM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY Master
MR_P_BODY Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	Anything in the intake track will disperse the oil over all the cyls... when you let off the pedal the vac goes up and pulls the oil back into the intake and will dump it in all the cyls and can make it look like there is very little signs of oil.. I had a hole in a intake runner and it pulled a qt of oil in 35 miles and dumped it out both pipes... the muffs had a lot of oil in them

Re: Switch from 10-30 to 20-50 pressure change? [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1659136 08/16/14 10:52 PM 08/16/14 10:52 PM
Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 984 Tennessee H Hemi ragtop OP super stock
Hemi ragtop OP super stock H Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 984 Tennessee	Update: when I changed from 10/30 to 20/50 my cold pressure went from 80 to 85lb. Not much, but, when HOT, it went from 25-30 idle, to 45. And it went from 60 hot on the freeway to 75. So that answers that. As several on here pointed out, thicker oil, DID NOT IMPROVE THE OIL CONSUMPTION! I paid a lot of good money for a "professional. brand name" engine builder to screw it together. He wanted me to switch to 20/50 and so I tried it. Now I will do what I should have done, I will teart the #$&& engine out of the car and build it myself. I have NEVER, in dozens of engines, including BLOWN HEMI'S had an oil problem. I drove 70 miles to a car show today and used TWO QUARTS of oil! So, here is the plan, the bushed lifter bores are getting drilled! the "expert" refused to do it. 200 lb cranking pressure is too much! there goes the wimpy 248/254 @ 050 solid roller cam! I am thinking that the Mopar aluminum heads have to go. 540 ci. needs the new Eddy or Indy 420 cfm heads with decent valve guides and seals. What about gapless rings which the "expert" refused to use? We have a 4.375 bore, 4.500 stroke, Stage V intake, two 750 cfm Hollys to work with. Car weighs 4,175 lb., 727 w/ 3.54 gear Dana and is used for street driving. What suggestions do you have for the new build? 8242554-DSCN0970.JPG (64 downloads)

Re: Switch from 10-30 to 20-50 pressure change? [Re: Hemi ragtop] #1659137 08/16/14 11:58 PM 08/16/14 11:58 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,976 Chilliwack B.C. Canada R RUNCHARGER I Live Here
RUNCHARGER I Live Here R Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,976 Chilliwack B.C. Canada	You say your ring seal is good. I've ran Hemi's since 1980 and I ran dykes rings on Direct Connection pistons and didn't use a quart in 500 miles. I would suspect those MP heads. I'd pull them in the car and check valve guide clearance, seals and the studs that go into the intake ports. Tim Banning did both sets of Stage V heads for me and it's like magic, no oil consumption. Sheldon

Re: Switch from 10-30 to 20-50 pressure change? [Re: RUNCHARGER] #1659138 08/17/14 09:57 AM 08/17/14 09:57 AM
Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 984 Tennessee H Hemi ragtop OP super stock
Hemi ragtop OP super stock H Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 984 Tennessee	I tend to agree but feel that I need to pull the engine to correct some other issues and overall inspect everything. At least I won't be bored with nothing to do on weekends/evenings this winter! I know that I need to address the cam and solid lifter bushings at the very least.

Re: Switch from 10-30 to 20-50 pressure change? [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1659139 08/17/14 10:05 AM 08/17/14 10:05 AM
Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 984 Tennessee H Hemi ragtop OP super stock
Hemi ragtop OP super stock H Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 984 Tennessee	Quote: Anything in the intake track will disperse the oil over all the cyls... when you let off the pedal the vac goes up and pulls the oil back into the intake and will dump it in all the cyls and can make it look like there is very little signs of oil.. I had a hole in a intake runner and it pulled a qt of oil in 35 miles and dumped it out both pipes... the muffs had a lot of oil in them I understand that and it makes sense, yet the pipes are dry, plugs light brown and dry. I wonder if the compression, MSD and 50/50 race gas mix could burn that much oil to the point that I don't see it?

Re: Switch from 10-30 to 20-50 pressure change? [Re: Hemi ragtop] #1659140 08/17/14 01:05 PM 08/17/14 01:05 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,976 Chilliwack B.C. Canada R RUNCHARGER I Live Here
RUNCHARGER I Live Here R Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,976 Chilliwack B.C. Canada	I can understand that, sad you have to do it but I'm sure you want to go over everything and make sure it's all correct. That's a bunch of oil going somewhere and not smoking or leaving some strong evidence where and how it's leaving. Sheldon

Re: Switch from 10-30 to 20-50 pressure change? [Re: RUNCHARGER] #1659141 08/17/14 02:13 PM 08/17/14 02:13 PM
Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 427 Sweden Mopar Guy mopar
Mopar Guy mopar Joined: Oct 2006 Posts: 427 Sweden	I had a aha experience whit the pcv valve on my engine ! I discoverd that there were practly now restriction in mine that whas a repop/nos 1970 and the 71 style had that so i use that one insted and it workt so i gues i whas dumping out alot of oil fumes that way. The 72 model and up also have that nice restriction =)

Re: Switch from 10-30 to 20-50 pressure change? [Re: Mopar Guy] #1659142 08/17/14 10:05 PM 08/17/14 10:05 PM
Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 984 Tennessee H Hemi ragtop OP super stock
Hemi ragtop OP super stock H Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 984 Tennessee	Here is a brain teaser for all of you engine builders. Follow the post and you will see that compression is good, PVC has filter with little collection in glass sight bowl, etc. Yet 1-1/2 quart of oil is missing from the dipstick in 70 miles. Here are pics of the exhaust pipes. Now what do you make of this? Seems that much oil would show up wet and black to me! First pic is just camera, no flash 8243654-DSCN1125.JPG (141 downloads)

Re: Switch from 10-30 to 20-50 pressure change? [Re: Hemi ragtop] #1659143 08/17/14 10:08 PM 08/17/14 10:08 PM
Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 984 Tennessee H Hemi ragtop OP super stock
Hemi ragtop OP super stock H Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 984 Tennessee	Now add external light, driver's side. 8243659-DSCN1126.JPG (131 downloads)

Re: Switch from 10-30 to 20-50 pressure change? [Re: Hemi ragtop] #1659144 08/17/14 10:10 PM 08/17/14 10:10 PM
Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 984 Tennessee H Hemi ragtop OP super stock
Hemi ragtop OP super stock H Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 984 Tennessee	External light added, passenger side. Where is the oil going? Not an external leak in sight! 8243661-DSCN1127.JPG (110 downloads)

Re: Switch from 10-30 to 20-50 pressure change? [Re: Hemi ragtop] #1659145 08/23/14 10:46 PM 08/23/14 10:46 PM
Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 984 Tennessee H Hemi ragtop OP super stock
Hemi ragtop OP super stock H Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 984 Tennessee	Well, I am still chasing oil consumption in the HEMI. To review, Pipes are burning clean (see photos), Plugs look good, See this post) and I just completed a leak down test tonight. One thing is for sure, it is not the rings or valve to seat. Most cylendrs read 10% leak down! The worst is 18% (only one). See the photos of the plugs, look at the pipes, where is the oil going? 8249672-DSCN1133.JPG (106 downloads)

Re: Switch from 10-30 to 20-50 pressure change? [Re: Hemi ragtop] #1659146 08/23/14 10:47 PM 08/23/14 10:47 PM
Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 984 Tennessee H Hemi ragtop OP super stock
Hemi ragtop OP super stock H Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 984 Tennessee	2 8249673-DSCN1134.JPG (130 downloads)

Re: Switch from 10-30 to 20-50 pressure change? [Re: Hemi ragtop] #1659147 08/23/14 10:52 PM 08/23/14 10:52 PM
Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 984 Tennessee H Hemi ragtop OP super stock
Hemi ragtop OP super stock H Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 984 Tennessee	3 8249678-DSCN1139.JPG (116 downloads)

Re: Switch from 10-30 to 20-50 pressure change? [Re: Hemi ragtop] #1659148 08/23/14 10:57 PM 08/23/14 10:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,976 Chilliwack B.C. Canada R RUNCHARGER I Live Here
RUNCHARGER I Live Here R Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,976 Chilliwack B.C. Canada	You're running spark plug gaskets, you can chuck those so they don't chew up the spark plug tubes. Inspect the spark plug tubes carefully to see if they are damaged and letting oil by. If you are not running Stage V heads I would suggest running Milidon tube seals as well, Stage V heads have O-rings machined in right from Stage V and don't need the extra tube seals. Sheldon

Re: Switch from 10-30 to 20-50 pressure change? [Re: Hemi ragtop] #1659149 08/23/14 11:02 PM 08/23/14 11:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,591 Canton, Ohio S Sport440 master
Sport440 master S Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 6,591 Canton, Ohio	Plugs look oily to me. There was a recent post of a Hemi oil consumption leak recently. The fix was to get rid of the spark plug washer gasket, it doesnt work well with the tubes. You still have yours, get rid of them and see how it goes. You are definately pulling oil in. IMO

Re: Switch from 10-30 to 20-50 pressure change? [Re: Hemi ragtop] #1659150 08/23/14 11:02 PM 08/23/14 11:02 PM
Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 984 Tennessee H Hemi ragtop OP super stock
Hemi ragtop OP super stock H Joined: Mar 2010 Posts: 984 Tennessee	When I first started chasing this problem, I found oil in the intake ports, lots of it. I changed to Proformance gaskets, measured the intake to head gap etc. The old gaskets had "wicked" oil THROUGH the gasket at the bottom. The instructions were, "install the gaskets dry", now I see that a spray adhesive is being used. Should I pull the intake again and use adhesive/sealer just to be sure that I am not still leaking in the intake? I have been running SeaFoam in the fuel to clean the carbon, that may be why I now see no oil in the ports when I pull the carb and look in the ports (Stage V open plenum). 8249696-DSCN0853.JPG (90 downloads)

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