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Suspension Advice Regarding my 69 Satellite Wagon
#1658912
08/14/14 03:07 PM
08/14/14 03:07 PM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 321
Massachusetts
Sneke_Eyez
OP
enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 321
Massachusetts
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I picked up my 1969 Plymouth Satellite Wagon in Virginia at the end of May and drove it back up to Massachusetts. Since a picture is worth 1000 words, here it is shortly after I bought it:   I bought it from the 2nd owner with 95k on the clock and I've put about 2000 miles on it since I bought it. I have spent a fair amount of time working on the interior and sorting out the little problems it had like bad battery cables, a leaking valve cover, etc. Now in putting 2000 miles on the car, I can definitely say that despite its original 1969 front swaybar, it handles poorly. It rides alright, but handling is not its strong point. It also has awful stance - the front end looks higher than the rear from most angles. One big reason for this is that everything in the suspension appears to be original. Every bushing you can see is crumbly and worn. The shocks are all covered in surface rust and look like they could even be original. I am looking to spend around $500 to $1000 this year on handling bits, and I wanted opinions on what to do with that money. Next year will bring more money, but based on what I have spent so far on the car, I can't go too crazy. Saving the money for a future upgrade is certainly an option. Eventually, if I get that far with this car, I'd like to put a Hotchkis TVS underneath it. But obviously I can't start with that with my budget. I know that this car will never be the perfect autocross car, and I don't expect it to be - but I would like to carve corners in it as best as I can. Goals for money spent are simply to: 1) Improve handling and perhaps improve ride to overall improve my enjoyment of driving the car. 2) Improve stance. I'm considering replacing the 14'' wheels and tires with a set of 18x8s, rebuild kits for the front end or a set of Hotchkis single adjustable Fox shocks, but those obviously are not my only options. I know, I'm asking other people to spend my money, but I just want some opinions on where to start and how to spend it in the best way that will make a difference. I don't want to start spending money unless it will have results or if it will turn out to be a waste because I'll replace those components later. I'd like to start with what will give me good results in the end, if that makes sense. Thanks for your help! I know this is a matter of opinion...
1969 Satellite Wagon - G3 Hemi Swap Incoming. | 1969 Coronet Post Coupe.
2002 Intrepid ES | 2009 Ram SLT | 2004 300M Special | 2002 300M Pro Am - Hers
Are you a New England Mopar Enthusiast?
Come check out the revived NorthEast Mighty Mopar at www.northeastmightymopar.com!
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Re: Suspension Advice Regarding my 69 Satellite Wagon
[Re: Sneke_Eyez]
#1658914
08/14/14 04:10 PM
08/14/14 04:10 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
feets
Senior Management
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Senior Management
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 28,067
Irving, TX
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To make it a good driver I would slam a front suspension kit under it, add a rear sway bar, and follow through with a good set of shocks.
That will fit in your budget and make a very nice improvement.
You may be able to add a leaf to the spring pack in order to raise the rear a bit. A new set of springs would do the trick but may not fit into you budget after taking care of the front end.
It's entirely possible that you will undo some of these things with later upgrades. However, your priority should be on making the car save and enjoyable. Without those two things the car stands the chance of falling out of favor.
These things will get you back on the road and give you the chance to enjoy the car while saving for future upgrades.
We are brothers and sisters doing time on the planet for better or worse. I'll take the better, if you don't mind.
- Stu Harmon
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Re: Suspension Advice Regarding my 69 Satellite Wagon
[Re: RylisPro]
#1658915
08/14/14 04:14 PM
08/14/14 04:14 PM
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 841
Santa Fe Springs, CA
Dan@Hotchkis
super stock
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super stock
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 841
Santa Fe Springs, CA
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That thing is too cool. I've been trying to get my wife to buy off on that exact same project! I'd love to take everything from my Road Runner and transplant it over to the wagon. I know it sounds like a bad sales pitch, but if the whole suspension is shot bushing wise, you may want to just start replacing the most worn out components with our stuff. Rationalization is this: the amount of money you'll spend re conditioning the stock stuff would put to well on your way to the kit. If you jest start finding the worst off components and start swapping them as they fail, you can slowly evolve the car over a year or two. I've done this with a few customer cars. They race it, break something or wipe out a bushing and we replace it with good stuff. Also of note, we did custom rear springs for the Taxi, so when you get ready to do that, make sure you give us a call and we can help you out. Really looking forward to the progress on this project! 400rwhp 383 with a TKO, Our TVS and some good brakes, and You'll have a sweet family hauler!
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Re: Suspension Advice Regarding my 69 Satellite Wagon
[Re: Dan@Hotchkis]
#1658916
08/14/14 05:05 PM
08/14/14 05:05 PM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 321
Massachusetts
Sneke_Eyez
OP
enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 321
Massachusetts
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Quote:
Wow that's one sweet wagon! When it comes time for me to start a family I would rather have one of these instead of an SUV. Sucks it doesn't have modern safety features, airbags etc. though...
Personally I would just save up the coin for Hotchkis stuff and not bother with anything else. Their stuff is nice and well worth it
Yeah I don't have a family, I'm just an engaged man with a thing for wagons and B Bodies. 
Eventually I might have a family, but for now the wagon is one member of our family - even my fiancee agrees. (She convinced me to buy it, and yes, before I asked her to marry me!)
I appreciate the advice. Continuing to save for a TVS kit is certainly up there on my list of options.
Quote:
To make it a good driver I would slam a front suspension kit under it, add a rear sway bar, and follow through with a good set of shocks.
That will fit in your budget and make a very nice improvement.
You may be able to add a leaf to the spring pack in order to raise the rear a bit. A new set of springs would do the trick but may not fit into you budget after taking care of the front end.
It's entirely possible that you will undo some of these things with later upgrades. However, your priority should be on making the car save and enjoyable. Without those two things the car stands the chance of falling out of favor.
These things will get you back on the road and give you the chance to enjoy the car while saving for future upgrades.
Thanks for the tips.
I've been hemming and hawing over the front suspension kit for it - PST throws together so many parts for what seems like a pretty decent price and at least then I'd be all set with that stuff, but then again, there's the chance of having to swap it all out again that I don't look forward to...
As for shocks, I'm thinking the Hotchkis/Fox non-adjustables, but that eats up a big part of my budget and is only one item.
Also, there's little to no danger of the car falling out of favor with me - I only have one classic car in drivable condition right now and its this one, so I drive it as much as I can - hence 2000 miles since May.
Quote:
That thing is too cool. I've been trying to get my wife to buy off on that exact same project! I'd love to take everything from my Road Runner and transplant it over to the wagon. I know it sounds like a bad sales pitch, but if the whole suspension is shot bushing wise, you may want to just start replacing the most worn out components with our stuff. Rationalization is this: the amount of money you'll spend re conditioning the stock stuff would put to well on your way to the kit. If you jest start finding the worst off components and start swapping them as they fail, you can slowly evolve the car over a year or two. I've done this with a few customer cars. They race it, break something or wipe out a bushing and we replace it with good stuff. Also of note, we did custom rear springs for the Taxi, so when you get ready to do that, make sure you give us a call and we can help you out. Really looking forward to the progress on this project! 400rwhp 383 with a TKO, Our TVS and some good brakes, and You'll have a sweet family hauler!
Ha, I'm glad you like it, Dan. Your Roadrunner has always been one of my favorite cars of all time and seeing that big B handle has been inspiring to say the least. I'd love to make the wagon do half of what your Roadrunner does.
I hear you, and I'd like to use Hotchkis components on the project entirely if I could. My problem is - where do I start?
Do I leave it alone for now and keep driving it until I can afford to buy the entire TVS and do it that way? Do I start with the greaseable pivot shaft kit since I know the control arm bushings are toast? Do I piecemeal the TVS components as I can afford them instead? (This honestly seems like a waste to me as I will likely have scrimped enough next year for the TVS kit.)
I'll keep that in mind as to rear springs - I knew you guys had to have done something specific to the rear springs in the Taxi to get it to handle like that.
1969 Satellite Wagon - G3 Hemi Swap Incoming. | 1969 Coronet Post Coupe.
2002 Intrepid ES | 2009 Ram SLT | 2004 300M Special | 2002 300M Pro Am - Hers
Are you a New England Mopar Enthusiast?
Come check out the revived NorthEast Mighty Mopar at www.northeastmightymopar.com!
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Re: Suspension Advice Regarding my 69 Satellite Wagon
[Re: TC@HP2]
#1658918
08/14/14 09:49 PM
08/14/14 09:49 PM
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 841
Santa Fe Springs, CA
Dan@Hotchkis
super stock
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super stock
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 841
Santa Fe Springs, CA
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Pick what is worse and work a full segment from there. To eliminate redundant work.
As an example:
LCA bushings are shot; purchase and replace LCA bushings, Hotchkis Strut Rods and weld in LCA reinforcement plates and LCA pin hole reinforcements (Firm Feel) and install new lower ball joints. That way you don't have to take that apart again. Same thing for the rear. Save up for the springs, shocks and sway bars, do it all in one shot. The TVS is the same price as a whole or in pieces, so there is no savings by going lump sum. You can keep an eye on our eBay page for blem items if you really want to save as you are moving along, etc. You find if you pull the car apart and do it bushing here, bushing there it turns into a can of worms deal and the next thing you know you are buying all kindas of bushings you'd toss later down the road and it ends up being wasted money towards your goal.
If you sit down and really hammer out the cost to replace all the bushings and the "oh by the ways" it stacks really fast. You want to get a nice pile of parts to knock out a whole part of a system in a weekend. Friday night to take it apart/break stuff; Saturday morning to clean prep and replace everything that broke, buy tools at Sears, etc, then Saturday night/Sunday for assembly and ready to go to the alignment rack Monday morning so you can go cruising for ice cream Monday night. Unless you have access to a full shop, I try to encourage folks to do bite sized pieces in sprints instead of creating jackstand art to wiggle past in the garage for a month (and usually longer).
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Re: Suspension Advice Regarding my 69 Satellite Wagon
[Re: jcc]
#1658921
08/15/14 12:00 AM
08/15/14 12:00 AM
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 40
upper So. CA
ntsqd
member
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member
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 40
upper So. CA
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Like some others have said, I'd address the most worn parts first. Start with the brakes. Replace/upgrade as desired or needed (just do the flex hoses unless you Know for a fact that they were recently replaced), get that squared away first. Then the steering. Then the suspension bushings. Give yourself a good foundation to build on. Make the car fun (& safe!) to drive while saving up for the cool stuff.
I wouldn't bother with an add-a-leaf in the rear unless you plan to always have a load in the back. Short add-a-leaves are a huge increase in spring rate, longer ones are less so and I'll bet that the car really doesn't need it. Tune the front suspension ride height to get the stance that you want.
I used to swerve around my hallucinations, now I drive right thru them.
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Re: Suspension Advice Regarding my 69 Satellite Wagon
[Re: topside]
#1658923
08/15/14 03:36 AM
08/15/14 03:36 AM
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 817
Eugene, Oregon
Secret Chimp
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 817
Eugene, Oregon
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Hands down the biggest bang-for-buck mod I've done to my 67 Coronet wagon is a Hellwig rear anti-roll bar. On the first hole my car stays flatter than my wife's Subaru at normal to safely-quick city speeds, and even let me hang with friends driving moderately in G35s and Mazdaspeeds (on 215/75s no less). Hardly any change at all to the ride, even with crappy Monroe blues. Regardless of which bar you choose, these big booty cars really benefit from them.
1967 Dodge Coronet Deluxe station wagon
1.03" T-bars, QA1 arms/rods, Cordoba/GM Metric/Volare brake & knuckle, XHDs, Hellwig rear sway, 318 Magnum w/ air gap, 727, 3.23s
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Re: Suspension Advice Regarding my 69 Satellite Wagon
[Re: feets]
#1658926
08/16/14 01:05 PM
08/16/14 01:05 PM
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Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 40
upper So. CA
ntsqd
member
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member
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 40
upper So. CA
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Are the wagons always under-sprung? Any sort of leaf swap is going to change the rate of the spring. I know that they have probably lost some of their set and now the car sits lower than it did originally. I don't see that as a bad thing. Cars of the era were usually designed at one ride height, and then actually sold at up to 2" higher due to snow chains & road irregularities concerns.
Absolutely concur with fresh front end equaling increased confidence in the car.
I also think that to some degree you have to accept that you're spend money on parts that you may not use very long if driving the car during the repair/refurbishment/upgrade process is desired or necessary. Of course try to plan so that you don't, but accept that it's probably going to happen and work to minimize it.
I used to swerve around my hallucinations, now I drive right thru them.
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Re: Suspension Advice Regarding my 69 Satellite Wagon
[Re: Sneke_Eyez]
#1658928
08/20/14 12:25 AM
08/20/14 12:25 AM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
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"I ordered up was some 1.12 torsion bars" Smart move 
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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Re: Suspension Advice Regarding my 69 Satellite Wagon
[Re: jcc]
#1658929
08/20/14 12:57 AM
08/20/14 12:57 AM
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Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 321
Massachusetts
Sneke_Eyez
OP
enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 321
Massachusetts
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Quote:
"I ordered up was some 1.12 torsion bars"
Smart move
Ha, I'm glad it was a good move. How could I pass up that deal?
Ate into the budget a bit, but I know a good deal when I see one!
Besides, with everything that is said about torsion bars around here, it seems like something that size will work out quite well for me! I even pondered the 1.15s...
1969 Satellite Wagon - G3 Hemi Swap Incoming. | 1969 Coronet Post Coupe.
2002 Intrepid ES | 2009 Ram SLT | 2004 300M Special | 2002 300M Pro Am - Hers
Are you a New England Mopar Enthusiast?
Come check out the revived NorthEast Mighty Mopar at www.northeastmightymopar.com!
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Re: Suspension Advice Regarding my 69 Satellite Wagon
[Re: Sneke_Eyez]
#1658930
08/20/14 12:14 PM
08/20/14 12:14 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 16,135
Mesa, Arizona
dart4forte
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 16,135
Mesa, Arizona
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Quote:
I appreciate all of the feedback - sorry I haven't replied, been a busy time. The car also decided to blow a brake line, so I'm taking the opportunity to upgrade to stainless lines in the front. I might even do the disc brake conversion if I feel like I can accomplish it without too much trouble.
I have taken everything into account and will be doing some planning for the next few months and the winter.
One small item I ordered up was some 1.12 torsion bars from Bergman AutoCraft. I won't install them until I've got other things up to snuff and bushings replaced, but they were a good deal and I love good deals!
Word of caution on SS brake lines. Extremely difficult to bend and flare. Be prepared to chase leaks. Suggestion... Take the lines to a brake shop where they have a hydraulic flaring machine.
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