Suspension Advice Regarding my 69 Satellite Wagon

Posted By: Sneke_Eyez

Suspension Advice Regarding my 69 Satellite Wagon - 08/14/14 07:07 PM

I picked up my 1969 Plymouth Satellite Wagon in Virginia at the end of May and drove it back up to Massachusetts.

Since a picture is worth 1000 words, here it is shortly after I bought it:

I bought it from the 2nd owner with 95k on the clock and I've put about 2000 miles on it since I bought it.

I have spent a fair amount of time working on the interior and sorting out the little problems it had like bad battery cables, a leaking valve cover, etc.

Now in putting 2000 miles on the car, I can definitely say that despite its original 1969 front swaybar, it handles poorly. It rides alright, but handling is not its strong point. It also has awful stance - the front end looks higher than the rear from most angles.

One big reason for this is that everything in the suspension appears to be original. Every bushing you can see is crumbly and worn. The shocks are all covered in surface rust and look like they could even be original.

I am looking to spend around $500 to $1000 this year on handling bits, and I wanted opinions on what to do with that money.
Next year will bring more money, but based on what I have spent so far on the car, I can't go too crazy. Saving the money for a future upgrade is certainly an option.

Eventually, if I get that far with this car, I'd like to put a Hotchkis TVS underneath it. But obviously I can't start with that with my budget. I know that this car will never be the perfect autocross car, and I don't expect it to be - but I would like to carve corners in it as best as I can.

Goals for money spent are simply to:
1) Improve handling and perhaps improve ride to overall improve my enjoyment of driving the car.
2) Improve stance.

I'm considering replacing the 14'' wheels and tires with a set of 18x8s, rebuild kits for the front end or a set of Hotchkis single adjustable Fox shocks, but those obviously are not my only options.

I know, I'm asking other people to spend my money, but I just want some opinions on where to start and how to spend it in the best way that will make a difference. I don't want to start spending money unless it will have results or if it will turn out to be a waste because I'll replace those components later.
I'd like to start with what will give me good results in the end, if that makes sense.

Thanks for your help! I know this is a matter of opinion...

Posted By: RylisPro

Re: Suspension Advice Regarding my 69 Satellite Wagon - 08/14/14 07:57 PM

Wow that's one sweet wagon! When it comes time for me to start a family I would rather have one of these instead of an SUV. Sucks it doesn't have modern safety features, airbags etc. though...

Personally I would just save up the coin for Hotchkis stuff and not bother with anything else. Their stuff is nice and well worth it

Posted By: feets

Re: Suspension Advice Regarding my 69 Satellite Wagon - 08/14/14 08:10 PM

To make it a good driver I would slam a front suspension kit under it, add a rear sway bar, and follow through with a good set of shocks.
That will fit in your budget and make a very nice improvement.

You may be able to add a leaf to the spring pack in order to raise the rear a bit. A new set of springs would do the trick but may not fit into you budget after taking care of the front end.

It's entirely possible that you will undo some of these things with later upgrades. However, your priority should be on making the car save and enjoyable. Without those two things the car stands the chance of falling out of favor.

These things will get you back on the road and give you the chance to enjoy the car while saving for future upgrades.

Posted By: Dan@Hotchkis

Re: Suspension Advice Regarding my 69 Satellite Wagon - 08/14/14 08:14 PM

That thing is too cool. I've been trying to get my wife to buy off on that exact same project! I'd love to take everything from my Road Runner and transplant it over to the wagon. I know it sounds like a bad sales pitch, but if the whole suspension is shot bushing wise, you may want to just start replacing the most worn out components with our stuff. Rationalization is this: the amount of money you'll spend re conditioning the stock stuff would put to well on your way to the kit. If you jest start finding the worst off components and start swapping them as they fail, you can slowly evolve the car over a year or two. I've done this with a few customer cars. They race it, break something or wipe out a bushing and we replace it with good stuff. Also of note, we did custom rear springs for the Taxi, so when you get ready to do that, make sure you give us a call and we can help you out. Really looking forward to the progress on this project! 400rwhp 383 with a TKO, Our TVS and some good brakes, and You'll have a sweet family hauler!

Posted By: Sneke_Eyez

Re: Suspension Advice Regarding my 69 Satellite Wagon - 08/14/14 09:05 PM

Quote:

Wow that's one sweet wagon! When it comes time for me to start a family I would rather have one of these instead of an SUV. Sucks it doesn't have modern safety features, airbags etc. though...

Personally I would just save up the coin for Hotchkis stuff and not bother with anything else. Their stuff is nice and well worth it

Yeah I don't have a family, I'm just an engaged man with a thing for wagons and B Bodies.

Eventually I might have a family, but for now the wagon is one member of our family - even my fiancee agrees. (She convinced me to buy it, and yes, before I asked her to marry me!)

I appreciate the advice. Continuing to save for a TVS kit is certainly up there on my list of options.

Quote:

To make it a good driver I would slam a front suspension kit under it, add a rear sway bar, and follow through with a good set of shocks.
That will fit in your budget and make a very nice improvement.

You may be able to add a leaf to the spring pack in order to raise the rear a bit. A new set of springs would do the trick but may not fit into you budget after taking care of the front end.

It's entirely possible that you will undo some of these things with later upgrades. However, your priority should be on making the car save and enjoyable. Without those two things the car stands the chance of falling out of favor.

These things will get you back on the road and give you the chance to enjoy the car while saving for future upgrades.

Thanks for the tips.
I've been hemming and hawing over the front suspension kit for it - PST throws together so many parts for what seems like a pretty decent price and at least then I'd be all set with that stuff, but then again, there's the chance of having to swap it all out again that I don't look forward to...

As for shocks, I'm thinking the Hotchkis/Fox non-adjustables, but that eats up a big part of my budget and is only one item.

Also, there's little to no danger of the car falling out of favor with me - I only have one classic car in drivable condition right now and its this one, so I drive it as much as I can - hence 2000 miles since May.

Quote:

That thing is too cool. I've been trying to get my wife to buy off on that exact same project! I'd love to take everything from my Road Runner and transplant it over to the wagon. I know it sounds like a bad sales pitch, but if the whole suspension is shot bushing wise, you may want to just start replacing the most worn out components with our stuff. Rationalization is this: the amount of money you'll spend re conditioning the stock stuff would put to well on your way to the kit. If you jest start finding the worst off components and start swapping them as they fail, you can slowly evolve the car over a year or two. I've done this with a few customer cars. They race it, break something or wipe out a bushing and we replace it with good stuff. Also of note, we did custom rear springs for the Taxi, so when you get ready to do that, make sure you give us a call and we can help you out. Really looking forward to the progress on this project! 400rwhp 383 with a TKO, Our TVS and some good brakes, and You'll have a sweet family hauler!

Ha, I'm glad you like it, Dan. Your Roadrunner has always been one of my favorite cars of all time and seeing that big B handle has been inspiring to say the least. I'd love to make the wagon do half of what your Roadrunner does.

I hear you, and I'd like to use Hotchkis components on the project entirely if I could. My problem is - where do I start?
Do I leave it alone for now and keep driving it until I can afford to buy the entire TVS and do it that way? Do I start with the greaseable pivot shaft kit since I know the control arm bushings are toast? Do I piecemeal the TVS components as I can afford them instead? (This honestly seems like a waste to me as I will likely have scrimped enough next year for the TVS kit.)

I'll keep that in mind as to rear springs - I knew you guys had to have done something specific to the rear springs in the Taxi to get it to handle like that.

Posted By: TC@HP2

Re: Suspension Advice Regarding my 69 Satellite Wagon - 08/14/14 09:18 PM

A basic rebuild with new bushings and joints is probably the safest approach for good peace of mind. $200-300 for this.

I'd add the TVS front sway bar, $330 or so.

That puts you at your $500 low level limit.

You could also maybe add a leaf to the rear while the springs are out for bushings (free to $100 depending on source) and/or add the rear sway bar ($350). Since you are not stepping up the spring rates, get over the counter gas shocks for $25 each. There is your grand budget for the year.

Don't forget that you need a radial friendly alignment too.

After that, you can then piecemeal the TVS system into place as your budget allows.

Posted By: Dan@Hotchkis

Re: Suspension Advice Regarding my 69 Satellite Wagon - 08/15/14 01:49 AM

Pick what is worse and work a full segment from there. To eliminate redundant work.
As an example:
LCA bushings are shot; purchase and replace LCA bushings, Hotchkis Strut Rods and weld in LCA reinforcement plates and LCA pin hole reinforcements (Firm Feel) and install new lower ball joints. That way you don't have to take that apart again. Same thing for the rear. Save up for the springs, shocks and sway bars, do it all in one shot. The TVS is the same price as a whole or in pieces, so there is no savings by going lump sum. You can keep an eye on our eBay page for blem items if you really want to save as you are moving along, etc. You find if you pull the car apart and do it bushing here, bushing there it turns into a can of worms deal and the next thing you know you are buying all kindas of bushings you'd toss later down the road and it ends up being wasted money towards your goal.
If you sit down and really hammer out the cost to replace all the bushings and the "oh by the ways" it stacks really fast. You want to get a nice pile of parts to knock out a whole part of a system in a weekend. Friday night to take it apart/break stuff; Saturday morning to clean prep and replace everything that broke, buy tools at Sears, etc, then Saturday night/Sunday for assembly and ready to go to the alignment rack Monday morning so you can go cruising for ice cream Monday night. Unless you have access to a full shop, I try to encourage folks to do bite sized pieces in sprints instead of creating jackstand art to wiggle past in the garage for a month (and usually longer).

Posted By: RylisPro

Re: Suspension Advice Regarding my 69 Satellite Wagon - 08/15/14 02:06 AM

Also don't throw away any aluminum bumpsteer spacers or else you end up having to call Hotchkis again and order replacements that cost $12 bucks shipped that you are never going to use because they weren't sent out until a week later and by then you had already bought some $5 steel spacers from the local hardware store

Posted By: jcc

Re: Suspension Advice Regarding my 69 Satellite Wagon - 08/15/14 03:16 AM

"Friday night to take it apart/break stuff; Saturday morning to clean prep and replace everything that broke, buy tools at Sears, etc, then Saturday night/Sunday for assembly and ready to go to the alignment rack Monday morning so you can go cruising for ice cream Monday night",
bought with the money after returning all the tools to Sears.

Posted By: ntsqd

Re: Suspension Advice Regarding my 69 Satellite Wagon - 08/15/14 04:00 AM

Like some others have said, I'd address the most worn parts first. Start with the brakes. Replace/upgrade as desired or needed (just do the flex hoses unless you Know for a fact that they were recently replaced), get that squared away first. Then the steering. Then the suspension bushings. Give yourself a good foundation to build on. Make the car fun (& safe!) to drive while saving up for the cool stuff.

I wouldn't bother with an add-a-leaf in the rear unless you plan to always have a load in the back. Short add-a-leaves are a huge increase in spring rate, longer ones are less so and I'll bet that the car really doesn't need it. Tune the front suspension ride height to get the stance that you want.

Posted By: topside

Re: Suspension Advice Regarding my 69 Satellite Wagon - 08/15/14 05:30 AM

On my '70 Satellite "Road Runner" wagon, just doing all the bushings, good shocks, up-sizing the front bar & adding a rear bar made a huge difference, even with 14x7 wheels & 225/70 tires; it wasn't a threat to a well-driven proper sports car, but plenty of fun and a surprise to most people. The car had 11" drums and the HD suspension: not cutting-edge by any means, but in proper condition pretty effective for a street car.

Posted By: Secret Chimp

Re: Suspension Advice Regarding my 69 Satellite Wagon - 08/15/14 07:36 AM

Hands down the biggest bang-for-buck mod I've done to my 67 Coronet wagon is a Hellwig rear anti-roll bar. On the first hole my car stays flatter than my wife's Subaru at normal to safely-quick city speeds, and even let me hang with friends driving moderately in G35s and Mazdaspeeds (on 215/75s no less). Hardly any change at all to the ride, even with crappy Monroe blues. Regardless of which bar you choose, these big booty cars really benefit from them.

Posted By: floridian

Re: Suspension Advice Regarding my 69 Satellite Wagon - 08/15/14 02:58 PM

Not a wagon but the rear sway bar add to my car was HUGE.. I used Firm Feels RSB, liked how it worked, as I do not like the "clamp" on to the rear housing type of RSBars....

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Posted By: feets

Re: Suspension Advice Regarding my 69 Satellite Wagon - 08/15/14 04:13 PM

Quote:

I wouldn't bother with an add-a-leaf in the rear unless you plan to always have a load in the back. Short add-a-leaves are a huge increase in spring rate, longer ones are less so and I'll bet that the car really doesn't need it. Tune the front suspension ride height to get the stance that you want.

I was referring to removing the leaf pack, opening it up, and adding a leaf to it. Maybe replace one leaf with a single leaf out of a C body or D150. Just need to do some measuring first.
I stuck a later B spring pack under my 65 B main leaf to get the performance I was after.

I'm not a fan of add-a-leafs either.

I did a front end rebuild on the hot rod back in 2002. It took me a day to knock all that stuff out using hand tools in my driveway and a trip to a shop with a press. It's not that hard.
If you're going to swap the upper ball joint you will need to borrow a ball joint socket.

A fresh front end will give you the confidence in the car that it doesn't have at the moment.

The hot rod got one of the cheap PST sway bars that hangs off the differential. It make a notable improvement as others have stated.

One of those $199 bars made a massive improvement on my 92 D250 also.

Now I need to find one for the Imperial.

Posted By: ntsqd

Re: Suspension Advice Regarding my 69 Satellite Wagon - 08/16/14 05:05 PM

Are the wagons always under-sprung? Any sort of leaf swap is going to change the rate of the spring. I know that they have probably lost some of their set and now the car sits lower than it did originally. I don't see that as a bad thing. Cars of the era were usually designed at one ride height, and then actually sold at up to 2" higher due to snow chains & road irregularities concerns.

Absolutely concur with fresh front end equaling increased confidence in the car.

I also think that to some degree you have to accept that you're spend money on parts that you may not use very long if driving the car during the repair/refurbishment/upgrade process is desired or necessary. Of course try to plan so that you don't, but accept that it's probably going to happen and work to minimize it.

Posted By: Sneke_Eyez

Re: Suspension Advice Regarding my 69 Satellite Wagon - 08/19/14 11:12 PM

I appreciate all of the feedback - sorry I haven't replied, been a busy time. The car also decided to blow a brake line, so I'm taking the opportunity to upgrade to stainless lines in the front. I might even do the disc brake conversion if I feel like I can accomplish it without too much trouble.

I have taken everything into account and will be doing some planning for the next few months and the winter.

One small item I ordered up was some 1.12 torsion bars from Bergman AutoCraft. I won't install them until I've got other things up to snuff and bushings replaced, but they were a good deal and I love good deals!

Posted By: jcc

Re: Suspension Advice Regarding my 69 Satellite Wagon - 08/20/14 04:25 AM

"I ordered up was some 1.12 torsion bars"

Smart move

Posted By: Sneke_Eyez

Re: Suspension Advice Regarding my 69 Satellite Wagon - 08/20/14 04:57 AM

Quote:

"I ordered up was some 1.12 torsion bars"

Smart move

Ha, I'm glad it was a good move. How could I pass up that deal?

Ate into the budget a bit, but I know a good deal when I see one!

Besides, with everything that is said about torsion bars around here, it seems like something that size will work out quite well for me! I even pondered the 1.15s...

Posted By: dart4forte

Re: Suspension Advice Regarding my 69 Satellite Wagon - 08/20/14 04:14 PM

Quote:

I appreciate all of the feedback - sorry I haven't replied, been a busy time. The car also decided to blow a brake line, so I'm taking the opportunity to upgrade to stainless lines in the front. I might even do the disc brake conversion if I feel like I can accomplish it without too much trouble.

I have taken everything into account and will be doing some planning for the next few months and the winter.

One small item I ordered up was some 1.12 torsion bars from Bergman AutoCraft. I won't install them until I've got other things up to snuff and bushings replaced, but they were a good deal and I love good deals!

Word of caution on SS brake lines. Extremely difficult to bend and flare. Be prepared to chase leaks. Suggestion... Take the lines to a brake shop where they have a hydraulic flaring machine.

Posted By: jcc

Re: Suspension Advice Regarding my 69 Satellite Wagon - 08/20/14 04:20 PM

As a huge fan of SS, I agree, the SS lines aren't worth the trouble IMO, if you are over 40 and its a daily driver.

Posted By: Sneke_Eyez

Re: Suspension Advice Regarding my 69 Satellite Wagon - 08/20/14 09:59 PM

Quote:

Word of caution on SS brake lines. Extremely difficult to bend and flare. Be prepared to chase leaks. Suggestion... Take the lines to a brake shop where they have a hydraulic flaring machine.

Appreciate it, but they're already pre-bent and flared.

And jcc, I'm 25 and the car isn't a DD, but I'm hoping its around long enough for me to turn 40.

SS lines were an extra $20 - I figured it was worth it since I don't have to mess with them ever again.

Posted By: jcc

Re: Suspension Advice Regarding my 69 Satellite Wagon - 08/21/14 01:04 AM

Well the SS lines will be.

Interesting build/owner combination BTW

Posted By: Sneke_Eyez

Re: Suspension Advice Regarding my 69 Satellite Wagon - 08/21/14 05:21 PM

Quote:

Well the SS lines will be.

Interesting build/owner combination BTW

Ha, thanks! Most of my friends just refer to me by the much more concise "crazy".

Posted By: Sneke_Eyez

Re: Suspension Advice Regarding my 69 Satellite Wagon - 08/21/14 09:08 PM

Next purchase was a Hotchkis Rear sway bar kit for less than half regular price! Couldn't pass up that deal... next!

Anybody have any insight on what to do with my stock front sway bar?
Hotchkis's bar requires new brackets welded on, my factory LCAs have the swaybar tabs (obviously) and so one of FirmFeel's bars would likely fit, but then I notice that FirmFeel's bars say they won't work with the caliper mounting of the Mopar Action 74 Dart style disc brake upgrade I'm looking to do - I have all of the parts for it, single piston calipers, master cylinder, everything.

Should I look into buying LCAs with no sway bar tabs to use with a Hotchkis bar? That's what I'm considering doing - I've got a line on some right now which I can ship to FirmFeel to have reinforced.

Decisions, decisions.

Posted By: boydsdodge

Re: Suspension Advice Regarding my 69 Satellite Wagon - 08/22/14 01:26 AM

I have a 67 Coronet wagon that I used all Firm Feel parts on this project.
(not saying I don't like Hotchkis, as I do and have used in other projects.)
front and rear sway bay, bilstein shocks, 1" torsion bar (they were in the shop)
Had spring shop ad a leaf to the rear springs with new bushings front and rear on the springs
12" brake swap, callipers to the rear.(be careful of your brake lines, I used 69 Camero disc brake lines.)
Adjustable struts, Firm Feel inner outer Tie rods and sleeves, NOS cop Steering box.
15x7 front with 245/60,15, 15x8 rear with 275/60,15.
Maxxis Marauder tires.
7/8 rear wheel cylinders.
Aluminum master cylinder with 15/16 bore.
reinforced lower control arms with welded on plates.
Car drives great, handles great, i prefer driving it over our 300c.

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Posted By: boydsdodge

Re: Suspension Advice Regarding my 69 Satellite Wagon - 08/22/14 01:35 AM

another pic

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Posted By: Dan@Hotchkis

Re: Suspension Advice Regarding my 69 Satellite Wagon - 08/22/14 02:30 AM

All right you two, knock it off with all the wagon pictures. You're making my bank account nervous.

Posted By: boydsdodge

Re: Suspension Advice Regarding my 69 Satellite Wagon - 08/22/14 03:55 AM

Ok, no more pics.

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Posted By: BigBlockMopar

Re: Suspension Advice Regarding my 69 Satellite Wagon - 08/22/14 09:34 AM

Love the looks of the last wagon. Maybe drop it a tad lower for perfection.

All wagons benefit from a rear swaybar. My '62 NewYorker wagon needs one desperatly aswell as it really doesn't like corners.

Posted By: Sneke_Eyez

Re: Suspension Advice Regarding my 69 Satellite Wagon - 10/22/14 09:09 PM

The wagon got a little upgrade last night in the way of some 18x8 MB Wheels Old Schools - I found the set with tires for such a good deal on DiscountTireDirect.com that I couldn't pass them up!

Now unfortunately, the car wants to handle well, but if I crank the steering wheel, it wallows like a ship in a storm!

Next will simply have to be some of the Hotchkis Fox shocks and to either install the Hotchkis rear bar and cut the exhaust, or buy a Hellwig and use that.

Posted By: jon01

Re: Suspension Advice Regarding my 69 Satellite Wagon - 10/22/14 09:20 PM

One tip - Hotchkis rear springs will not support a wagon in as-delivered form.
Found that out the hard way when the tires rested on the wheelwells off of the jack.
For the price I would have just had some FF ones made up and been $ ahead by the time I paid a local spring shop to add a leaf to them.

Posted By: Sneke_Eyez

Re: Suspension Advice Regarding my 69 Satellite Wagon - 10/22/14 09:23 PM

Quote:

One tip - Hotchkis rear springs will not support a wagon in as-delivered form.
Found that out the hard way when the tires rested on the wheelwells off of the jack.
For the price I would have just had some FF ones made up and been $ ahead by the time I paid a local spring shop to add a leaf to them.

Thanks for the tip - I have talked to Hotchkis a little bit about this at Carlisle (Dan also mentioned this to me earlier in this thread) and they told me that they can do a custom rate for me based off of the AutoX taxi.

Posted By: CKessel

Re: Suspension Advice Regarding my 69 Satellite Wagon - 10/23/14 04:21 AM

You may want to consider getting it weighed. Find out the total, front, back and 4 corner amounts. It will help to nail down your spring rates. I wonder if the frame connectors would be the same compared to 2/4 door unibody.

Posted By: Sneke_Eyez

Re: Suspension Advice Regarding my 69 Satellite Wagon - 10/23/14 03:41 PM

Quote:

You may want to consider getting it weighed. Find out the total, front, back and 4 corner amounts. It will help to nail down your spring rates. I wonder if the frame connectors would be the same compared to 2/4 door unibody.

Yeah, I'd like to have that done - problem is that I'm not sure where I'd have it done near me.

I talked to Hotchkis about frame connectors at Carlisle as well, just to check that they didn't use a different frame connector on the Taxi.
What I did know from doing my own measurements was that the four doors and wagons had the same amount of space between their front and rear frame rails as the coupes.
I have to make an appointment for the car to get a set of frame connectors and torque boxes installed...

Posted By: CKessel

Re: Suspension Advice Regarding my 69 Satellite Wagon - 10/24/14 01:07 AM

See if you can hook up with someone that road races or does circle track. Possibly go to a local track too.

Posted By: TC@HP2

Re: Suspension Advice Regarding my 69 Satellite Wagon - 10/24/14 08:39 PM

Quote:

See if you can hook up with someone that road races or does circle track. Possibly go to a local track too.

Yep, there are usually a shop or two and least a few racers who can help with scaling the car. Provided you are within an hour of an oval track.

Posted By: ahy

Re: Suspension Advice Regarding my 69 Satellite Wagon - 10/25/14 02:59 PM

I use the scales at a local sand and gravel supplier. Scales are accurate to 20 lbs absolute weight and the approach to the scale is level. Weigh front, total and back.

I think they are supposed to charge $5 or $10 for the service... but they love classics and have never charged.

Posted By: jcc

Re: Suspension Advice Regarding my 69 Satellite Wagon - 10/25/14 04:22 PM

So you know what to drive the next time when you need some gravel.

Posted By: Sneke_Eyez

Re: Suspension Advice Regarding my 69 Satellite Wagon - 04/07/15 08:35 PM

So I'm in the process of rebuilding the front end of the wagon before bringing her out for the season, and I am approaching a new parts ordering spree.

Just curious to get people's opinions on what I'm ordering and installing to see if anyone has any additional suggestions regarding some questions I have. Remember, I'm wanting something that is better than the wallowing pig I have right now, a true corner carver isn't necessarily the goal. Every part on the front end right now is worn out and appears to be straight out of 1969.

I am installing the following that I have on hand:
1.12 Torsion bars

Hellwig 55903 Tubular Front Sway Bar

Hellwig 6909 Rear Adjustable Sway Bar

FirmFeel Lower Control Arm Reinforcement Plates

Wilwood Dual Piston Caliper Brake Setup (Purchased used, I need to explore more about what I bought and what I need for a master cylinder)

Things that will be soldiering on for the time being:
Factory power steering box

318 V8/A904 Automatic

The (seemingly) stock shocks.
I've pondered swapping these for Monroe blues just for something to tide me over, but I'd really rather put shock money into some Hotchkis Fox units.

I'm ordering the following to be installed starting as soon as parts arrive:

Upgraded 11/16'' tie rods:
2 Moog ES440S Steering Center Link Tie Rod End

2 Moog ES355RL Steering Center Link Tie Rod End

2 Moog ES352R Steering Center Link Tie Rod End

Upper control arm rebuild until I can afford tubular ones:
2 Moog K7103 Upper Control Arm Bushings (This is the offset bushing kit to allow more adjustment.)

2 Proforged 101-10126 Greasable Upper Ball Joint

Lower control arm rebuild:
1 Proforged 120-10005 Greasable Lower Control Arm Pivot Shaft Kit

1 Proforged 115-10034 Polyurethane Lower Control Arm Bushings (Little confused here, does the 120-10005 kit come with these? In the pictures it looks like it does, so I probably don't need these - I'll call Proforged)

1 Proforged 101-10129 Greasable Left Lower Ball Joint

1 Proforged 101-10128 Greasable Right Lower Ball Joint

I'm planning to reuse my stock strut rods, but use:
1 Energy Suspension Polyurethane 5.7109G Strut Rod Bushing Kit on them

Optional items that I'm considering:
Proforged 116-10026 Fast Ratio Pitman and Idler Arm Kit - will the fast ratio stuff be worthwhile? These together are almost $200 from everywhere, and I'll pay it if the driving experience is worth it.

Proforged 105-10049 Billet Aluminum Tie Rod Sleeves - These would swap for the Moog ES440Ss and are expensive - the supplied information claims greater adjustment out of them, but I'm not sure if there is a real benefit. Cost differential is about $25, but I'm sort of at the point where every little bit helps.

Proforged 114-10009 Torsion Bar Lock and Seal Kit - again, not sure whether I need these or if they're just a luxury

I'd like to get this stuff ordered here in the next few days so that at least some parts are in my hands on Saturday.

Thoughts, feelings, criticisms from the Corner Carvers who are more knowledgeable than I?

Thanks!

Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: Suspension Advice Regarding my 69 Satellite Wagon - 04/07/15 09:22 PM

Quote:

1 Moog K7030 Upper Control Arm Bushing Kit (This is the offset kit to allow more adjustment.)

Moog K7103. Should used two kits. There are two bushings per kit. You should used them both per A-arm.

[img]http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/attachment.php?attachmentid=209427&stc=1&d=1296413838[/img]

Posted By: TC@HP2

Re: Suspension Advice Regarding my 69 Satellite Wagon - 04/07/15 09:36 PM

Monroe gas magnums are fair performers up to around 1" diameter T-bars and are $30 per. The stock shocks will be totally overwhelmed.

11/16 tie rods and ends. Mehh, I'd save the money here and just replace your 9/16 ends. Unless you're pushing it to the limit, you aren't defelcting these enough t o justify the cost, IMO. FWIW, 9/16 ends will sustain 5g worth of loading before they fail. Any gains here are in the solid sleeves compared to the stock split sleeve. If you are adamant about solid sleeves, get swedged steel tubes from Speedway for $20 each instead of forking over big buck for billet sleeves.

Energy Suspension strut rod polyurethane - check tolerance stack up with these and how the effect your lower control arm seating position. These are often too thick and make the lower arm sit further back making caster even harder to achieve.

Fast ratio stuff, I like it. It does help with low sped maneuvering. Is unnecessary for high speed stuff.

Lock and seal kit, unless you stock ones are trashed, no need to get new ones.

Posted By: Sneke_Eyez

Re: Suspension Advice Regarding my 69 Satellite Wagon - 04/07/15 09:39 PM

Originally Posted By autoxcuda

Quote:

1 Moog K7030 Upper Control Arm Bushing Kit (This is the offset kit to allow more adjustment.)

Excellent, thank you for noticing that.
So I'm looking at 2 of the K7030s and 2 of the K7103s?

Posted By: Sneke_Eyez

Re: Suspension Advice Regarding my 69 Satellite Wagon - 04/07/15 09:57 PM

Originally Posted By TC@HP2

Hmm, so buy a cheapo set of Monroe gas magnums. I can do that.

As for the tie rod ends, the 11/16s are actually cheaper than the 9/16s, so I figure the upgrade will actually save me money.
With the money saved, I can buy a set of the billet sleeves, I suppose, or a set of swedged steel tubes from Speedway. Not sure what length I'd need, though. I suppose I can measure the length of the stock ones.

I understand that the urethane strut rod bushings probably aren't necessary. Don't want to mess up alignment specs.

I don't know what my stock pieces look like on the torsion bars. I'll be under the car on Saturday and will evaluate.

Thanks for the tips!

Posted By: autoxcuda

Re: Suspension Advice Regarding my 69 Satellite Wagon - 04/07/15 10:04 PM

Originally Posted By Sneke_Eyez

Originally Posted By autoxcuda

Quote:

1 Moog K7030 Upper Control Arm Bushing Kit (This is the offset kit to allow more adjustment.)

Excellent, thank you for noticing that.
So I'm looking at 2 of the K7030s and 2 of the K7103s?

No. Just two kits of the K7103's That is the offset bushings themselves no cam eccentrics.

K7030 is the wrong part number. That number is for the standard bushings with a cam eccentrics.

If you need cam eccentrics you can buy them separately. Don't know the part number for that. Or just use your old ones if good.

Posted By: Sneke_Eyez

Re: Suspension Advice Regarding my 69 Satellite Wagon - 04/07/15 10:12 PM

Originally Posted By autoxcuda

Originally Posted By Sneke_Eyez

Originally Posted By autoxcuda

Quote:

1 Moog K7030 Upper Control Arm Bushing Kit (This is the offset kit to allow more adjustment.)

Excellent, thank you for noticing that.
So I'm looking at 2 of the K7030s and 2 of the K7103s?

Thank you, much appreciated.

I will update the list post with this info.

Posted By: Sneke_Eyez

Re: Suspension Advice Regarding my 69 Satellite Wagon - 04/08/15 04:18 PM

Alright, I'm going to try to order this stuff tonight when I arrive home from work.

Gotta call Proforged on my lunch break and ask about the lower control arm bushings.

Posted By: TC@HP2

Re: Suspension Advice Regarding my 69 Satellite Wagon - 04/08/15 05:17 PM

Originally Posted By Sneke_Eyez

As for the tie rod ends, the 11/16s are actually cheaper than the 9/16s, so I figure the upgrade will actually save me money.
With the money saved, I can buy a set of the billet sleeves, I suppose, or a set of swedged steel tubes from Speedway. Not sure what length I'd need, though. I suppose I can measure the length of the stock ones.

I understand that the urethane strut rod bushings probably aren't necessary. Don't want to mess up alignment specs.

I don't know what my stock pieces look like on the torsion bars. I'll be under the car on Saturday and will evaluate.

Thanks for the tips!

If 11/16 are cheaper, why not. You would need to measure your sleeves to approximate a sleeve you may need if you don't want mopar specific units.

The urethane strut bushings aren't a deal killer, just something to be mindful of checking. The thickness of them very from brand to brand so you just want to make sure you aren't putting units in that are thicker than stock. If they are, urethane can be turned down very easily. Firmer strut bushings are good for heavy braking to minimize toe changes. This is why a number of upgrade struts actually use heims as a more solid means of reducing deflection.

Posted By: Sneke_Eyez

Re: Suspension Advice Regarding my 69 Satellite Wagon - 04/08/15 09:07 PM

Originally Posted By TC@HP2

Originally Posted By Sneke_Eyez

I think I'm just going to go with the regular rubber strut bushings.
My biggest problem right now is that I can't get the Proforged left ball joint - they don't have any in stock and neither does anyone else who sells for them.

Posted By: Sneke_Eyez

Re: Suspension Advice Regarding my 69 Satellite Wagon - 04/15/15 06:21 PM

Well I ordered it all last night - including the fast ratio pitman and idler arms.

I managed to get pretty decent deals.

Now I am in need of a master cylinder for my Wilwood setup:
www.summitracing.com/parts/wil-140-11020/overview/year/1969/make/plymouth/model/satellite

It is the older Dynalite caliper with the Solid surface rotor.
I bought them for a great deal from a member here, and I want to install them while I'm doing the suspension work.

Any advice for what to use for a master cylinder - particularly size?
Thoughts on whether I should go power brakes at the same time?

I'm going to keep the stock 9'' drums on the back for now - eventually they'll get swapped for 11'' drums when I convert to an 8 3/4.