Re: Any idea what would cause the Valley Plate to have a bu
[Re: Bratt Racing]
#1646822
07/15/14 12:24 PM
07/15/14 12:24 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Does anyone have any idea what would cause the Valley Plate to have a bubble or hump in it? I noticed it after we ran last round at Night Under Fire at Trails. The car runs fine. Last evening I went through the test of checking the compression, presser in the radiator, if any water spit out of the plug holes and if the damper may have been plugged up. At first I thought I might have blown a head gasket but everything checked out ok. Tonight I am going to pull the manifold off. Looking for ideas I am a little baffled now.
How thick is this "plate" but it sounds like it isnt breathing enough and is building back pressure in the crank case... what kind of breathers are you running and are you running evacs with a exhaust system
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Re: Any idea what would cause the Valley Plate to have a bu
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1646823
07/15/14 12:59 PM
07/15/14 12:59 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,376 Las Vegas
Al_Alguire
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 19,376
Las Vegas
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To much pressure in the crankcase.
"I am not ashamed to confess I am ignorant of what I do not know."
"It's never wrong to do the right thing"
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Re: Any idea what would cause the Valley Plate to have a bu
[Re: Al_Alguire]
#1646825
07/15/14 01:27 PM
07/15/14 01:27 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,544 Syracuse,NY
CompWedgeEngines
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,544
Syracuse,NY
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Quote:
To much pressure in the crankcase.
As noted by everyone, certainly crankcase pressure. Hopefully a breather issue, but if you are running pan evac system, check the " check valves". they are only supposed to breathe one way. Very common for them to go bad.
On a side note, I have seen many many cars pop the intake valley pan into a bubble, and keep running. It isnt always internal, so dont go tearing to much down yet. Sounds like someone was on the right track checking for head gasket and compression, which all sounds stable.
Just to be sure, you havent had any backfires while starting the car or otherwise have you?
Has anyone checked the rocker arms/valve adjusment/pushrods?
Keep looking at the breathing of the engine side of things. Breathers, check valves, header collectors ( cracked etc), baffles ( or not) in the valve covers, sucked in valve cover grommets, or no clearance between valve cover baffles and breathers themselves and so forth. If that all checks out, then I'd say go deeper with testing, leakdown etc, but dont rip it all apart until you know for sure the engine is able to breathe correctly.
RIP Monte Smith
Your work is a reflection of yourself, autograph it with quality.
WD for Diamond Pistons,Sidewinder cylinder heads, Wiseco, K1 rods and cranks,BAM lifters, Morel lifters, Molnar Technologies, Harland Sharp, Pro Gear, Cometic, King Engine Bearings and many others.
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Re: Any idea what would cause the Valley Plate to have a bu
[Re: CompWedgeEngines]
#1646826
07/15/14 02:26 PM
07/15/14 02:26 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591 Canton, Ohio
Sport440
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
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Quote:
Quote:
To much pressure in the crankcase.
On a side note, I have seen many many cars pop the intake valley pan into a bubble, and keep running.
I wasnt so lucky. At the end of the season I was making some test and tune runs playing with the timing. The 3rd run seemed fine but the pan bubbled up witch it had never done. I figured something was wrong but figured another pass couldnt hurt it. Last one of the season It wasnt making any sounds or anything. Run it one more time and check it out later
Well I lost number 3 piston and then finally the block because stupid me didnt shut the engine down fast enough. I kind of just listend to it rattle abit tryiny to figure the sounds out and then boom, dead stop.
Now Im not saying you cant run with a bubbled intake pan, but you better know what the problem was that caused it first. I didnt and ran it "one" more time.
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Re: Any idea what would cause the Valley Plate to have a bu
[Re: Sport440]
#1646827
07/15/14 03:00 PM
07/15/14 03:00 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,544 Syracuse,NY
CompWedgeEngines
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,544
Syracuse,NY
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
To much pressure in the crankcase.
On a side note, I have seen many many cars pop the intake valley pan into a bubble, and keep running.
I wasnt so lucky. At the end of the season I was making some test and tune runs playing with the timing. The 3rd run seemed fine but the pan bubbled up witch it had never done. I figured something was wrong but figured another pass couldnt hurt it. Last one of the season It wasnt making any sounds or anything. Run it one more time and check it out later
Well I lost number 3 piston and then finally the block because stupid me didnt shut the engine down fast enough. I kind of just listend to it rattle abit tryiny to figure the sounds out and then boom, dead stop.
Now Im not saying you cant run with a bubbled intake pan, but you better know what the problem was that caused it first. I didnt and ran it "one" more time.
I hear ya...better safe than sorry.
I had a customer who did his own hardblocking, and had another shop do the block work. He fired it up, and about pass # 3, the intake valley pan looked like a wart! Seems they failed to properly finish the cylinders after the hardblocking and/or bolting on a torque plate. Needless to say, I got the engine job, and found cylinders almost .003-.004 out of round, taper and etc...rings never had a chance to seal. Hard to say if they even broke it in right regardless....but lots of good ways to ruin crankcase seal....
RIP Monte Smith
Your work is a reflection of yourself, autograph it with quality.
WD for Diamond Pistons,Sidewinder cylinder heads, Wiseco, K1 rods and cranks,BAM lifters, Morel lifters, Molnar Technologies, Harland Sharp, Pro Gear, Cometic, King Engine Bearings and many others.
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Re: Any idea what would cause the Valley Plate to have a bu
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1646828
07/15/14 09:57 PM
07/15/14 09:57 PM
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 248 Ohio
Bratt Racing
OP
enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 248
Ohio
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Quote:
Quote:
Does anyone have any idea what would cause the Valley Plate to have a bubble or hump in it? I noticed it after we ran last round at Night Under Fire at Trails. The car runs fine. Last evening I went through the test of checking the compression, presser in the radiator, if any water spit out of the plug holes and if the damper may have been plugged up. At first I thought I might have blown a head gasket but everything checked out ok. Tonight I am going to pull the manifold off. Looking for ideas I am a little baffled now.
How thick is this "plate" but it sounds like it isnt breathing enough and is building back pressure in the crank case... what kind of breathers are you running and are you running evacs with a exhaust system
Stock valley plate tin. MR Gasket breathers evacs. I have used them in the past never no issues.
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Re: Any idea what would cause the Valley Plate to have a bu
[Re: CompWedgeEngines]
#1646829
07/15/14 09:59 PM
07/15/14 09:59 PM
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 248 Ohio
Bratt Racing
OP
enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 248
Ohio
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Quote:
Quote:
To much pressure in the crankcase.
As noted by everyone, certainly crankcase pressure. Hopefully a breather issue, but if you are running pan evac system, check the " check valves". they are only supposed to breathe one way. Very common for them to go bad.
On a side note, I have seen many many cars pop the intake valley pan into a bubble, and keep running. It isnt always internal, so dont go tearing to much down yet. Sounds like someone was on the right track checking for head gasket and compression, which all sounds stable.
Just to be sure, you havent had any backfires while starting the car or otherwise have you?
Has anyone checked the rocker arms/valve adjusment/pushrods?
Keep looking at the breathing of the engine side of things. Breathers, check valves, header collectors ( cracked etc), baffles ( or not) in the valve covers, sucked in valve cover grommets, or no clearance between valve cover baffles and breathers themselves and so forth. If that all checks out, then I'd say go deeper with testing, leakdown etc, but dont rip it all apart until you know for sure the engine is able to breathe correctly.
I am in the process of checking what you recommended. Could a leaky header gasket cause this?
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Re: Any idea what would cause the Valley Plate to have a bu
[Re: a493demon]
#1646833
07/15/14 10:58 PM
07/15/14 10:58 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
i would go though about 2 or 3 check valve's a year. just start it and see if it's blowing up the hose into the valve cover .
I know most guys screw then on the nipple thats coming out of the collector BUT you can put a 45 street elbow on it and a 4" or so nipple then screw on the valve IF you have the room... I move mine about 8" from the point where it goes into the collector to reduce the heat
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Re: Any idea what would cause the Valley Plate to have a bu
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1646834
07/15/14 11:41 PM
07/15/14 11:41 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,412 Weatherford, Texas
RapidusMaximus
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 2,412
Weatherford, Texas
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When I switched to Flying Toilet alky fuel injection I had to put a vacuum pump on to cure that issue, pan evac that I had used for years was no longer effective. I was bulging a tin valley pan every weekend.
1968 Plymouth GTX 1974 Dodge P/U Long Bed Stepside 318 2019 Ram 2500 6.4, auto, 4WD
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Re: Any idea what would cause the Valley Plate to have a bu
[Re: RapidusMaximus]
#1646835
07/15/14 11:57 PM
07/15/14 11:57 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591 Canton, Ohio
Sport440
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
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Quote:
When I switched to Flying Toilet alky fuel injection I had to put a vacuum pump on to cure that issue, pan evac that I had used for years was no longer effective. I was bulging a tin valley pan every weekend.
Why was that?? Do you know?
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Re: Any idea what would cause the Valley Plate to have a bu
[Re: Sport440]
#1646837
07/16/14 06:03 PM
07/16/14 06:03 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 580 Livermore, CA
Dduster
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 580
Livermore, CA
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Quote:
Absolutely not.
Causes. Plugged breather valve Excessive ring blowby. Blown head gasket passing gasses into crankcase. Cracked piston.
Only X amount of ways to pressurize the crankcase.
What do you think would be the leakdown values for a cylinder with excessive blow-by to create crankcase pressure? 100% perfect, what is the leakdown magnitude (%) for 'not good'? I've gotten different answers for this question before so i'm just trying to see where the average 'no good' value falls?
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Re: Any idea what would cause the Valley Plate to have a bu
[Re: Dduster]
#1646838
07/16/14 06:59 PM
07/16/14 06:59 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591 Canton, Ohio
Sport440
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
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Quote:
Quote:
Absolutely not.
Causes. Plugged breather valve Excessive ring blowby. Blown head gasket passing gasses into crankcase. Cracked piston.
Only X amount of ways to pressurize the crankcase.
What do you think would be the leakdown values for a cylinder with excessive blow-by to create crankcase pressure? 100% perfect, what is the leakdown magnitude (%) for 'not good'? I've gotten different answers for this question before so i'm just trying to see where the average 'no good' value falls?
Any engine will create positive crankcase pressure. Unless its got a vac system.
But if your looking for leak down No good value numbers, your right that can vary.
For a race engine over 10% no good, some will say over 5% no good. "No good meaning, your not getting the Most from your Motor"
Anything over 20% can indicate more then Just rings. As in burnt valves ,head gasket, piston issues etc. 30% 50% no question. "No good meaning, something may be broke Alice"
Last edited by Sport440; 07/16/14 07:00 PM.
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