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Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas?
[Re: Telvis]
#1642537
07/13/14 01:42 AM
07/13/14 01:42 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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Ideal would be to max out each dist subsystem in order: initial/35 total (initial+slots) with vac capped/springs/hookup & adj vac adv if used. For springs You can do them now as is & keep going lighter till you are just heavier than the pinging point at
WOT up thru the gears AND the spring (slot) adv starts at no less than 200 RPM above your in gear idle speed. EDIT keep going lighter till it talks then back off a hair (& your hottest/driest day pings the easiest). You can pick either spring to work with to go slightly lighter than it (currently) is as no matter what the combo, the springs (slots) advance in a linear fashion (except for the OE heavy spring with the elongated loop one one end which ain't in play here) so go slightly weaker than either one depending on what you have in your stash
Last edited by RapidRobert; 07/13/14 01:53 AM.
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Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas?
[Re: Kern Dog]
#1642540
07/13/14 05:59 AM
07/13/14 05:59 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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Your fine bro, it was my descrip that was worded a bit cryptic. Keep the premium gas in there as it sounds like you are OK with it's cost and sub in a lighter spring for one of the springs currently in there. Keep going lighter and lighter till it just pings (talks) at WOT up thru the gears then go back a bit heavier. You NEVER want to allow any detonation to occur (except for a few seconds during testing) but you want to be fairly close to it. With 9.7 & I'm assuming that is a measured 9.7 and it ain't talking with regular tells me that you need it to come in much quicker
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas?
[Re: Telvis]
#1642542
07/13/14 12:02 PM
07/13/14 12:02 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
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Quote:
I am sitting on about 22 to 24 initial and about 38 all in at the moment. I tweaked the timing a bit earlier today. With the vacuum gauge I am good at no more than 24. I have one purple and for the life of me I can't remember the other spring color in the distributor. It comes in pretty quick and all in around 2500 rpm.
I just received a new 3500 rpm stall torque converter. I plan to get it in next week. Hopefully it will improve things a bit.
The heads are Edelbrock 60179 for a 340. The chamber is 65cc which in hind sight I understand I probably should have went for a different head. I went with these because they were supposedly made specifically for the 340. If all of my "tweaks" fail I might have them milled down a bit over the winter. I will cross that bridge when I get there.
If your pistons were above the deck when the motor was built, then your using the right heads and they don't need to be milled down. IMO
I built a 340 with those same heads in 2007. I used KB243 pistons which were .029" above the deck giving me 10.4-1 static compression. I have driven it hard now for over 20K miles on 91 octane fuel all around the country in really hi altitudes and temperatures. The motor makes plenty of pony's for a SB. More than any of my iron headed 340s did.
Good luck sorting out your combo.
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Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas?
[Re: Telvis]
#1642544
07/13/14 12:43 PM
07/13/14 12:43 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,084
Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
Special needs idiot
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Special needs idiot
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,084
Benton, IL.
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I agree that the rate of advance is critical to your engine's performance, but I would suggest that you wait until the converter change to do it since you already have the converter. Once you put in the looser converter, the motor will become loaded after the advance is all in. So it is less important whether "all in" is at 2,500, 2,200, or 2,000. Right now, with the converter at 2,500 and the "all in" at 2,500, the engine is loading without full advance. Not ideal, to say the least. If you were not going to change to a looser converter, then going for a quicker curve should be one of the first things to do. But now with the looser converter coming, I think it would be best to do the additional tuning with that combo. Just my  . 
Master, again and still
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Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas?
[Re: RapidRobert]
#1642546
07/13/14 01:33 PM
07/13/14 01:33 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,906
IL, Aurora
ademon
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,906
IL, Aurora
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Quote:
Quote:
I agree that the rate of advance is critical to your engine's performance, but I would suggest that you wait until the converter change to do it since you already have the converter.
Dave is right on the money 
agree also I have a 4,400 rpm stall so not critical when full advance comes in for power ... But I do want it in early for cruise so it runs clean especially when running a no vacuum advance dist and the most you have is what your total advance is set at.
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Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas?
[Re: Telvis]
#1642547
07/13/14 01:35 PM
07/13/14 01:35 PM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,562
Downtown Roebuck Ont
Twostick
Still wishing...
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Still wishing...
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,562
Downtown Roebuck Ont
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Quote:
Quote:
Your fine bro, it was my descrip that was worded a bit cryptic. Keep the premium gas in there as it sounds like you are OK with it's cost and sub in a lighter spring for one of the springs currently in there. Keep going lighter and lighter till it just pings (talks) at WOT up thru the gears then go back a bit heavier. You NEVER want to allow any detonation to occur (except for a few seconds during testing) but you want to be fairly close to it. With 9.7 & I'm assuming that is a measured 9.7 and it ain't talking with regular tells me that you need it to come in much quicker
Ah...I understand!  I will swap out the spring to get it to advance quicker. I will report back with the results. I do appreciate all the help.
And just to add a little more to the mix, if you haven't already done so, bring #1 up to TDC and confirm that your timing marks indicate TDC. It wouldn't be the first time a damper ring had slipped or was marked wrong.
With as much initial as you say you have I would think it would be kicking back pretty hard on the starter especially once it was warmed up.
Kevin
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Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas?
[Re: DaveRS23]
#1642548
07/13/14 03:39 PM
07/13/14 03:39 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 464
KY
Telvis
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 464
KY
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I went out a played with the tune a bit. I changed to the pink and purple springs (it was orange and purple before). I noticed I was barely really getting to 36 all in at 2500 so I went ahead and opened the slots for 2 more degrees all in. Now I actually get to 40 all in at about 1500, maybe even a tad earlier. Took it out and no pinging at all. I hammered it a bunch of times and it makes no valve noise at all. I even upped the initial 2 degrees and it still doesn't ping. I don't see any real noticeable difference in the timing changes. Damndest thing I have ever seen! Never seen a car that won't ping when timing is advanced up.
Last edited by Telvis; 07/13/14 03:40 PM.
That's King Weenie to you!
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Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas?
[Re: Telvis]
#1642549
07/13/14 03:54 PM
07/13/14 03:54 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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I'd go back to 35 (no vac adv correct?) and go lighter yet on the springs.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas?
[Re: Telvis]
#1642550
07/13/14 05:29 PM
07/13/14 05:29 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 464
KY
Telvis
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 464
KY
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I just came in from about a 30 minute drive. Before I left I set the initial at about 26 degrees. All in is a little over 40, say 42 and in comes in fast! I did notice an ever so slight ping going up hill on full throttle a couple times. I think maybe setting the initial back a degree or so is probably in order. On my way home I was at an intersection and no one was around so I stomped on it. I laid down about a 20 foot mark on the pavement! That was no brake at all and it felt like it wanted to break loose going into second gear. Not too shabby!  I can't wait to get the new TC in and see how that does. I did notice a little pinging, not much but it was there. We will see what happens when I step the timing back just a tad.
That's King Weenie to you!
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Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas?
[Re: RapidRobert]
#1642551
07/13/14 05:34 PM
07/13/14 05:34 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 464
KY
Telvis
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 464
KY
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RapidRobert, Thank you for the advice. Pink is the lightest spring. I have it set up for 2 stage advance. Should I just eliminate the purple spring and go with 2 pink springs? From what I understand the purple spring has slack in it and doesn't pull on the tabs until the advance reaches a certain point. Then it slows the advance down a bit before allowing it to go in fully. Two pink springs would be single stage and go straight to full advance fast. Like I said, pink is the lightest spring I have in my kit. I do appreciate the help. So far, it has helped immensely. 
Last edited by Telvis; 07/13/14 05:35 PM.
That's King Weenie to you!
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Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas?
[Re: Telvis]
#1642553
07/13/14 05:45 PM
07/13/14 05:45 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog
Striving for excellence
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Striving for excellence
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
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Quote:
Now I actually get to 40 all in at about 1500, maybe even a tad earlier. Took it out and no pinging at all. I hammered it a bunch of times and it makes no valve noise at all.
Not sure if you know it but pinging/knocking and detonation are unrelated to what the valves are doing. You've mentioned "valve chatter" or similar comments more than once and I wonder if you are mistaken. Detonation relates to uncontrolled, early ignition from a variety of reasons, none of which are directly related to the valves.
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I appreciate the advice...I think I might need it a little more simplified...Man I feel really dumb right now. 
I would have liked to have been there 
. You sound pumped! With no vac adv I think you can go with a bit more than 35 maybe 38 but for now I would retract it to 35 (you can continue to experiment later) and yes on the springs you want it to advance in a linear (straight line) fashion with no elongated slots or 2 stage etc. (1) get the initial where you want it (2) set the screws for 35 total (3) get the non slot/non stage springs in there that keep it just under the pinging point at WOT up thru the gears and that your spring choice does not start advancing any lower than 200 RPM above your in gear idle speed. You can use mr gasket or MP or even chebby springs in any combo to get the rate you are after but keeping the OE light spring on the one side is a good start. EDIT forgot that you have a Mallory based unit with the colored springs