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340 not what I thought it would be... UPDATE!!!!
#1642477
07/05/14 09:37 PM
07/05/14 09:37 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 464
KY
Telvis
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 464
KY
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I may be expecting too much from my 340. It isn't slow but still just doesn't seem as strong as I thought it would be. I have tuned and re-tuned down to about as good as I think I am able.
Here's what I have:
1969 340 block, bored .030
Speedpro Forged pistons
Scat rods
Scat crank, everything internally balanced.
Lunati Voodoo 60402 cam
Edelbrock 60179 heads with ductile adjustable rockers
Edelbrock RPM performer intake
Holley 750 vac. secondary
MP billet mech advance distributor, curved at 22 initial 38 all in.
Doug's Headers with 2 1/2 dual x pipe exhaust.
904 transmission with low low gear set and Cheetah auto / manual valve body and Hughes 2500 rpm stall TC.
3:23 Sure Grip rear
255-60-15 tires in the rear.
The car will get up and go but it doesn't roast the tires like I thought it would. Matter of fact I can't get much of a burnout using the brake. Again, maybe I am expecting too much out the 340. I guess i had my hopes up for more. I'm a bit disappointed.
Am I expecting too much? Have I done something wrong with this build?
Last edited by Telvis; 07/20/14 02:17 PM.
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Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas?
[Re: ademon]
#1642480
07/05/14 11:10 PM
07/05/14 11:10 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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As said: what cranking compression. what vehicle. 38 deg at what RPM. Degree the cam (& timing chain error). EDIT I ain't a cam guy & that cam MAY be too much
Last edited by RapidRobert; 07/05/14 11:13 PM.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas?
[Re: Telvis]
#1642481
07/05/14 11:14 PM
07/05/14 11:14 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,025
Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
Special needs idiot
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Special needs idiot
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,025
Benton, IL.
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Before you give up on the engine, try some more gear and some more converter.
3.91s and a 3,000+ stall converter and watch the smoke roll.
Master, again and still
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Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas?
[Re: moparfan53]
#1642485
07/05/14 11:57 PM
07/05/14 11:57 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 464
KY
Telvis
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 464
KY
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It's at 73 challenger.
The pistons do come above block deck the standard height for a 69 340. I don't recall the exact numbers.
I built the motor and lined the timing marks up for the timing chain. They were perfectly aligned. I'm not knowledgeable as far as degreeing a cam goes. I have built 4 motors and installed at least another 4 or 5 timing chains. I have always aligned the marks
Not sure how to check if the secondaries are opening. I installed a Street Avenger because I don't have a lot of expertise tuning carbs. I have rebuilt a few but I am by no means a tuner.
That's King Weenie to you!
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Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas?
[Re: Telvis]
#1642486
07/06/14 12:07 AM
07/06/14 12:07 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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First thing I'd do is get the cranking compression number. That'd give you a good overview on how stout the long block is (+ maybe a leakdown check later). I've heard good things (on here) for that carb
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas?
[Re: RapidRobert]
#1642487
07/06/14 12:15 AM
07/06/14 12:15 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,169
Park Forest, IL
slantzilla
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,169
Park Forest, IL
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Put a 3500 stall in it and you will be impressed.  2500 stall is not near enough.
"Everybody funny, now you funny too."
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Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas?
[Re: Telvis]
#1642490
07/06/14 12:59 AM
07/06/14 12:59 AM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,560
Downtown Roebuck Ont
Twostick
Still wishing...
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Still wishing...
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,560
Downtown Roebuck Ont
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OCD and didn't degree the cam?  I'm not familiar with that cam as far as duration @ .050, LSA etc but just lining up the dots on the gear set is a crap shoot at best with any aftermarket cam. If it is off even a few degrees especially if it is retarded, it can make a huge difference depending on the rest of the combo. Kevin
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Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas?
[Re: Telvis]
#1642491
07/06/14 01:02 AM
07/06/14 01:02 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,465
So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,465
So Cal
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Quote:
I don't think there's a problem with the motor itself. I will check the compression but I think it's likely a gear, torque converter or tuning issue. The motor is very strong. I guess I just expected too much. I had a 2007 SRT charger and eventually felt it wasn't enough power if that gives some insight. I think my expectations might be too high. I want to be able to roast the tires at will and still have good highway manners. I'm a bit OCD.... 
Did you expect this 340 motor in your 73 Challenger with 3.23 gear to be faster than that 2007 SRT Charger?
A 2007 SRT Charger is not a slouch. I belive that is a 0-60 in just under 5 seconds and low 13's 1/4 mile car. I don't believe your combo is going to get that.
IMHO, stoker are great for drivablility with power/tq. I wonder how many stock stroke Scat rotating assemblies they sell.
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Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas?
[Re: Twostick]
#1642492
07/06/14 01:07 AM
07/06/14 01:07 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,465
So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,465
So Cal
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Quote:
OCD and didn't degree the cam?
I'm not familiar with that cam as far as duration @ .050, LSA etc but just lining up the dots on the gear set is a crap shoot at best with any aftermarket cam. If it is off even a few degrees especially if it is retarded, it can make a huge difference depending on the rest of the combo.
Kevin
This is the cam.
•Advertised Duration (Int/Exh): 262/268
•Duration @ .050 (Int/Exh): 220/226
•Gross Valve Lift (Int/Exh): .475/.494
•LSA/ICL: 112/108
•Valve Lash (Int/Exh): Hyd/Hyd
•RPM Range: 1400-5800
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Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas?
[Re: autoxcuda]
#1642493
07/06/14 01:42 AM
07/06/14 01:42 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,169
Park Forest, IL
slantzilla
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,169
Park Forest, IL
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Does it have good throttle response? Are the secondaries opening on the carb?
"Everybody funny, now you funny too."
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Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas?
[Re: Twostick]
#1642494
07/06/14 01:53 AM
07/06/14 01:53 AM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 464
KY
Telvis
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 464
KY
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I'm learning as I go here. I have never done anything more than align the marks to install a timing chain. I guess I must have screwed up because I never learned to properly degree a cam....Like I said...Still learning.
By no stretch do I expect the current 340 to equal my SRT. For all I know this motor may be great and I am just expecting too much. I am trying but I seem to be well behind the curve of most here on this site. I obviously have a lot more to learn. It's great to have such a wealth of experience and knowledge to fall back on for advice.
I am 49 years old, have worked on cars most of my life and I am constantly amazed at the knowledge and expertise of others on this site. It is humbling. I do body, paint, motor, suspension, interior and recently learned to build a transmission. I am still amazed at how much I don't know. This is a great resource and I appreciate all of the advice and help.
That's King Weenie to you!
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Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas?
[Re: Telvis]
#1642500
07/06/14 10:41 AM
07/06/14 10:41 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,443
Indiana
YO7_A66
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,443
Indiana
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""2500 rpm stall TC/3:23 Sure Grip rear/255-60-15 tires in the rear.""
My stock stroke 340 in the last 13 years:
I have swapped out four carbs, two intakes, three cams, HP manifolds to TTi headers, three ignition systems, three torque converters, two different rear tire/rim sets.
For a street car, I have found the combination of the 340/2500/3:23/255 rear tires as your biggest mis-match. The 255's are a big tire to turn but I would keep them because as soon as you change your gear/converter, you will need them!
I believe that if you put your money into a good converter, your 3:23's "might" be ok. But I think that it is the combo of the 2500/3:23's that is keeping your off the line fun down.
Note: I run 3800/3:91/255 rear tires and I get instant tire spin off idle (no holding the brake) and also off of a rolling start. It is a fun street combo.
1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger
340 (Currently in shop for stroker assy.)
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Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas?
[Re: Telvis]
#1642501
07/06/14 11:29 AM
07/06/14 11:29 AM
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Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,355
north of coder
moparx
"Butt Crack Bob"
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"Butt Crack Bob"
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 19,355
north of coder
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Quote:
Quote:
Does it have good throttle response? Are the secondaries opening on the carb?
I don't know... Have no reason to think they aren't. How do you know if they open? The throttle response seems fine. When I say the motor seems sluggish maybe that is the incorrect description. It just doesn't seem to have the torque I expected. It has no hesitation.
even if the secondaries are opening, are they opening the whole way ? as in : is the throttle cable adjusted properly ? you would be amazed at how often this happens.
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Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas?
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#1642502
07/06/14 11:38 AM
07/06/14 11:38 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,200
Upper Midwest
MoparforLife
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,200
Upper Midwest
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Quote:
Problem = 3:23 Sure Grip rear
Try some 3.55's or 3.91's, that'll wake it up
I agree and back the timing down to about 35 degrees. Most small blocks I have been around 35 degrees or less. My 360 in fact ET'd best at 32/34
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Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas?
[Re: Telvis]
#1642503
07/06/14 11:48 AM
07/06/14 11:48 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,025
Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
Special needs idiot
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Special needs idiot
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,025
Benton, IL.
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Just as a test, you can take a small screw with it's nut and put in the secondary's slot so that the primary lever immediately opens the secondaries with the primaries. This will likely be too much, too soon if you open it up at low engine speed. But you will be able to tell as the engine revs up whether it runs better than before.
Again, this is just a test to see if you can tell a difference with the secondaries known to be opening.
Last edited by DaveRS23; 07/06/14 11:51 AM.
Master, again and still
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Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas?
[Re: DaveRS23]
#1642504
07/06/14 08:53 PM
07/06/14 08:53 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 464
KY
Telvis
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 464
KY
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I can get a 3:91 gear for a good deal. I just figured it would be no fun to drive above 50 mph. I don't a do a lot of interstate driving but I do drive at 60 or so quite a bit when I cruise. Is that going to be too low a gear?
That's King Weenie to you!
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Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas?
[Re: jcc]
#1642509
07/06/14 11:43 PM
07/06/14 11:43 PM
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 4,707
Florida
BDW
master
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master
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 4,707
Florida
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Quote:
I'm surprised with all the 255/3.23 theorists. I got a similiar mild built 360 with 3.55 and 305's and a tighter converter can't keep the rear tires stuck. Something in the OP's tune is off, I don't see a drive train issue, except the 255's are too narrow. 
Same here, pretty stock 340, had 3.55s, now have 3.73 and no problems spinning the tires from a dead stop, and still spinning as car is shifted into 2nd.
Auto with RMVB.
Something else going on, gears or TQ isn't your problem.
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Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas?
[Re: BDW]
#1642510
07/07/14 12:38 AM
07/07/14 12:38 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,754
Windsor, ON, Canada
Diplomat360
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,754
Windsor, ON, Canada
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Quote:
Quote:
I'm surprised with all the 255/3.23 theorists. I got a similiar mild built 360 with 3.55 and 305's and a tighter converter can't keep the rear tires stuck. Something in the OP's tune is off, I don't see a drive train issue, except the 255's are too narrow.
Same here, pretty stock 340, had 3.55s, now have 3.73 and no problems spinning the tires from a dead stop, and still spinning as car is shifted into 2nd.
Auto with RMVB.
Something else going on, gears or TQ isn't your problem.
Well, for what it's worth, I am a bit on the other side of this 'argument'...360 build here, 165 PSI static compression, Hughes HE3834AL hydraulic flat tappet cam (238/244 dur, .536/.540 lift, 108 LSA), Perfomer RPM intake, ported heads, 2800 stall converter, 3.91 SG rear end and Nitto 275-60-15 tires...no tire spin AT ALL...well, sometimes maybe, but the Nittos grab like crazy...felt the motor was a tad weak in the lower RPM...moved to a Dynamic 3800 stall converter over the winter...in the car now, haven't tested it yet as I'm finishing up the sub-frame connectors install. All converter shops I talked to unanimously stated I had way too little converter for that cam...
Your cam is smaller, and depending on what tire you are running it should spin the wheels at least a tad...but ultimately it's about the combination.
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Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas?
[Re: Diplomat360]
#1642511
07/07/14 01:57 AM
07/07/14 01:57 AM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,906
IL, Aurora
ademon
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,906
IL, Aurora
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I'm surprised with all the 255/3.23 theorists. I got a similiar mild built 360 with 3.55 and 305's and a tighter converter can't keep the rear tires stuck. Something in the OP's tune is off, I don't see a drive train issue, except the 255's are too narrow.
Same here, pretty stock 340, had 3.55s, now have 3.73 and no problems spinning the tires from a dead stop, and still spinning as car is shifted into 2nd.
Auto with RMVB.
Something else going on, gears or TQ isn't your problem.
Well, for what it's worth, I am a bit on the other side of this 'argument'...360 build here, 165 PSI static compression, Hughes HE3834AL hydraulic flat tappet cam (238/244 dur, .536/.540 lift, 108 LSA), Perfomer RPM intake, ported heads, 2800 stall converter, 3.91 SG rear end and Nitto 275-60-15 tires...no tire spin AT ALL...well, sometimes maybe, but the Nittos grab like crazy...felt the motor was a tad weak in the lower RPM...moved to a Dynamic 3800 stall converter over the winter...in the car now, haven't tested it yet as I'm finishing up the sub-frame connectors install. All converter shops I talked to unanimously stated I had way too little converter for that cam...
Your cam is smaller, and depending on what tire you are running it should spin the wheels at least a tad...but ultimately it's about the combination.
my 360 is close to yours but running a mechanical 6 pack , 3.55, with the same nitto tires. 4,400 dynamic stall. On blacktop bringing it to 3,000 then flooring it roasts the tires all the way to the rev limit and all the way through first into second, on concrete it will lay a good 25' patch.
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Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas?
[Re: Telvis]
#1642518
07/08/14 01:01 PM
07/08/14 01:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,443
Indiana
YO7_A66
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,443
Indiana
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""I ordered a Turbo Action TC today. Should give me more stall.""
Which unit did you buy?
Paul spec'd out a Tight 10" for me and it flashed to 3500rpms with 3:55's and 26" tires. That made a huge difference in my bottom end torque over the stock converter that I swapped out.
1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger
340 (Currently in shop for stroker assy.)
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Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas?
[Re: Telvis]
#1642519
07/08/14 03:52 PM
07/08/14 03:52 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
Sport440
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
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Like others asked, do a Compression check to see where the motor sits as is. 110?, 130?, 160? etc.
With the pistons above deck and that cam, should be around 150+ IMO The 3.23,s arent helping for sure. Does it run super in the power band?. Also, check the plugs, you could be Pig rich/ or lean.
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Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas?
[Re: Sport440]
#1642520
07/08/14 06:38 PM
07/08/14 06:38 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 464
KY
Telvis
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 464
KY
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Paul took all of my specs and recommended the converter that ends in ST. I can't remember the model number. It's the 10 inch, 3500 stall unit.
I will check the compression as soon as I can. I work late so may be the weekend. Will check plugs when I do.
That's King Weenie to you!
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Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas?
[Re: Telvis]
#1642521
07/08/14 06:40 PM
07/08/14 06:40 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 464
KY
Telvis
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 464
KY
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Timing maxes out around 2500 rpm
That's King Weenie to you!
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Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas?
[Re: Telvis]
#1642522
07/08/14 06:41 PM
07/08/14 06:41 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,443
Indiana
YO7_A66
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,443
Indiana
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""Paul took all of my specs and recommended the converter that ends in ST. I can't remember the model number. It's the 10 inch, 3500 stall unit.""
That is the "tight" 10" unit that I and a few other members had/have behind their SB's. Good choice!!
1970 YO7 A66 [Canadian Export] F8 Challenger
340 (Currently in shop for stroker assy.)
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Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas?
[Re: Sport440]
#1642524
07/12/14 08:40 PM
07/12/14 08:40 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 464
KY
Telvis
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 464
KY
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Ok....I finally had a chance to check my compression and my plug condition...
All plugs looked really good. Actually better than I expected.
The compression was fairly consistent in the 180 psi range for all 8 cylinders. I checked each one twice. Anyone care to give me input on that number? Is it good or bad? I think it's probably decent but I don't know that much about the meaningfulness of a certain number.
I checked my carb float level and made a couple small tweaks. They were a tad on the high side. I also change the vacuum secondary spring to the next lighter spring just to see if it would make a difference. I didn't mess with the mixture because my plugs looked so good.
The car will spin tires from a dead stop for about 4 to 6 feet without power braking. I don't guess thats too bad for a 340 and 3:23 gears.
I received the new Turbo Action torque converter this morning. I don't think I will be able to install it this weekend. I may be able to get it done next weekend if my wife doesn't bury me in honey do items. I will let you all know how the TC works for me. I think I am also going to try to find a 3:55 gear set. I may wait unit The Nats and look for one there.
Last edited by Telvis; 07/12/14 08:45 PM.
That's King Weenie to you!
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Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas?
[Re: Sublime70]
#1642528
07/12/14 08:52 PM
07/12/14 08:52 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 464
KY
Telvis
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 464
KY
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I have a Hughes 27-25 right now. It's a 2500 rpm stall.
That's King Weenie to you!
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Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas?
[Re: ahy]
#1642530
07/12/14 09:31 PM
07/12/14 09:31 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,906
IL, Aurora
ademon
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,906
IL, Aurora
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Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas?
[Re: ahy]
#1642531
07/12/14 11:46 PM
07/12/14 11:46 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 464
KY
Telvis
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 464
KY
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Do my aluminum heads give me a "cushion" on the gas I am able to use? I have never had the slightest knock. I do use premium but have accidentally used regular with still no valve chatter.
That's King Weenie to you!
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Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas?
[Re: Telvis]
#1642532
07/12/14 11:59 PM
07/12/14 11:59 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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Quote:
Do my aluminum heads give me a "cushion" on the gas I am able to use? I do use premium but have accidentally used regular with still no valve chatter.
(1) yes (2) if you have an aggressive curve & still no knock with regular I would use it. EDIT 180 is healthy, the timing does need to come in much faster (what springs do you have?) which will likely make you stay with premium. If the AF ratio is adequate you may very well need less cam and or more converter (not my area). Keep us posted
Last edited by RapidRobert; 07/13/14 12:36 AM.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas?
[Re: Twostick]
#1642534
07/13/14 12:56 AM
07/13/14 12:56 AM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 464
KY
Telvis
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 464
KY
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I am sitting on about 22 to 24 initial and about 38 all in at the moment. I tweaked the timing a bit earlier today. With the vacuum gauge I am good at no more than 24. I have one purple and for the life of me I can't remember the other spring color in the distributor. It comes in pretty quick and all in around 2500 rpm.
I just received a new 3500 rpm stall torque converter. I plan to get it in next week. Hopefully it will improve things a bit.
The heads are Edelbrock 60179 for a 340. The chamber is 65cc which in hind sight I understand I probably should have went for a different head. I went with these because they were supposedly made specifically for the 340. If all of my "tweaks" fail I might have them milled down a bit over the winter. I will cross that bridge when I get there.
Last edited by Telvis; 07/13/14 12:57 AM.
That's King Weenie to you!
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Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas?
[Re: Telvis]
#1642537
07/13/14 01:42 AM
07/13/14 01:42 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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Ideal would be to max out each dist subsystem in order: initial/35 total (initial+slots) with vac capped/springs/hookup & adj vac adv if used. For springs You can do them now as is & keep going lighter till you are just heavier than the pinging point at
WOT up thru the gears AND the spring (slot) adv starts at no less than 200 RPM above your in gear idle speed. EDIT keep going lighter till it talks then back off a hair (& your hottest/driest day pings the easiest). You can pick either spring to work with to go slightly lighter than it (currently) is as no matter what the combo, the springs (slots) advance in a linear fashion (except for the OE heavy spring with the elongated loop one one end which ain't in play here) so go slightly weaker than either one depending on what you have in your stash
Last edited by RapidRobert; 07/13/14 01:53 AM.
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Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas?
[Re: Kern Dog]
#1642540
07/13/14 05:59 AM
07/13/14 05:59 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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Your fine bro, it was my descrip that was worded a bit cryptic. Keep the premium gas in there as it sounds like you are OK with it's cost and sub in a lighter spring for one of the springs currently in there. Keep going lighter and lighter till it just pings (talks) at WOT up thru the gears then go back a bit heavier. You NEVER want to allow any detonation to occur (except for a few seconds during testing) but you want to be fairly close to it. With 9.7 & I'm assuming that is a measured 9.7 and it ain't talking with regular tells me that you need it to come in much quicker
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas?
[Re: Telvis]
#1642542
07/13/14 12:02 PM
07/13/14 12:02 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
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Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
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Quote:
I am sitting on about 22 to 24 initial and about 38 all in at the moment. I tweaked the timing a bit earlier today. With the vacuum gauge I am good at no more than 24. I have one purple and for the life of me I can't remember the other spring color in the distributor. It comes in pretty quick and all in around 2500 rpm.
I just received a new 3500 rpm stall torque converter. I plan to get it in next week. Hopefully it will improve things a bit.
The heads are Edelbrock 60179 for a 340. The chamber is 65cc which in hind sight I understand I probably should have went for a different head. I went with these because they were supposedly made specifically for the 340. If all of my "tweaks" fail I might have them milled down a bit over the winter. I will cross that bridge when I get there.
If your pistons were above the deck when the motor was built, then your using the right heads and they don't need to be milled down. IMO
I built a 340 with those same heads in 2007. I used KB243 pistons which were .029" above the deck giving me 10.4-1 static compression. I have driven it hard now for over 20K miles on 91 octane fuel all around the country in really hi altitudes and temperatures. The motor makes plenty of pony's for a SB. More than any of my iron headed 340s did.
Good luck sorting out your combo.
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Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas?
[Re: Telvis]
#1642544
07/13/14 12:43 PM
07/13/14 12:43 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,025
Benton, IL.
DaveRS23
Special needs idiot
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Special needs idiot
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,025
Benton, IL.
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I agree that the rate of advance is critical to your engine's performance, but I would suggest that you wait until the converter change to do it since you already have the converter. Once you put in the looser converter, the motor will become loaded after the advance is all in. So it is less important whether "all in" is at 2,500, 2,200, or 2,000. Right now, with the converter at 2,500 and the "all in" at 2,500, the engine is loading without full advance. Not ideal, to say the least. If you were not going to change to a looser converter, then going for a quicker curve should be one of the first things to do. But now with the looser converter coming, I think it would be best to do the additional tuning with that combo. Just my . 
Master, again and still
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Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas?
[Re: RapidRobert]
#1642546
07/13/14 01:33 PM
07/13/14 01:33 PM
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,906
IL, Aurora
ademon
master
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master
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 6,906
IL, Aurora
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Quote:
Quote:
I agree that the rate of advance is critical to your engine's performance, but I would suggest that you wait until the converter change to do it since you already have the converter.
Dave is right on the money 
agree also I have a 4,400 rpm stall so not critical when full advance comes in for power ... But I do want it in early for cruise so it runs clean especially when running a no vacuum advance dist and the most you have is what your total advance is set at.
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Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas?
[Re: Telvis]
#1642547
07/13/14 01:35 PM
07/13/14 01:35 PM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,560
Downtown Roebuck Ont
Twostick
Still wishing...
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Still wishing...
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,560
Downtown Roebuck Ont
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Quote:
Quote:
Your fine bro, it was my descrip that was worded a bit cryptic. Keep the premium gas in there as it sounds like you are OK with it's cost and sub in a lighter spring for one of the springs currently in there. Keep going lighter and lighter till it just pings (talks) at WOT up thru the gears then go back a bit heavier. You NEVER want to allow any detonation to occur (except for a few seconds during testing) but you want to be fairly close to it. With 9.7 & I'm assuming that is a measured 9.7 and it ain't talking with regular tells me that you need it to come in much quicker
Ah...I understand! I will swap out the spring to get it to advance quicker. I will report back with the results. I do appreciate all the help.
And just to add a little more to the mix, if you haven't already done so, bring #1 up to TDC and confirm that your timing marks indicate TDC. It wouldn't be the first time a damper ring had slipped or was marked wrong.
With as much initial as you say you have I would think it would be kicking back pretty hard on the starter especially once it was warmed up.
Kevin
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Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas?
[Re: DaveRS23]
#1642548
07/13/14 03:39 PM
07/13/14 03:39 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 464
KY
Telvis
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 464
KY
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I went out a played with the tune a bit. I changed to the pink and purple springs (it was orange and purple before). I noticed I was barely really getting to 36 all in at 2500 so I went ahead and opened the slots for 2 more degrees all in. Now I actually get to 40 all in at about 1500, maybe even a tad earlier. Took it out and no pinging at all. I hammered it a bunch of times and it makes no valve noise at all. I even upped the initial 2 degrees and it still doesn't ping. I don't see any real noticeable difference in the timing changes. Damndest thing I have ever seen! Never seen a car that won't ping when timing is advanced up.
Last edited by Telvis; 07/13/14 03:40 PM.
That's King Weenie to you!
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Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas?
[Re: Telvis]
#1642549
07/13/14 03:54 PM
07/13/14 03:54 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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I'd go back to 35 (no vac adv correct?) and go lighter yet on the springs.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas?
[Re: Telvis]
#1642550
07/13/14 05:29 PM
07/13/14 05:29 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 464
KY
Telvis
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 464
KY
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I just came in from about a 30 minute drive. Before I left I set the initial at about 26 degrees. All in is a little over 40, say 42 and in comes in fast! I did notice an ever so slight ping going up hill on full throttle a couple times. I think maybe setting the initial back a degree or so is probably in order. On my way home I was at an intersection and no one was around so I stomped on it. I laid down about a 20 foot mark on the pavement! That was no brake at all and it felt like it wanted to break loose going into second gear. Not too shabby!  I can't wait to get the new TC in and see how that does. I did notice a little pinging, not much but it was there. We will see what happens when I step the timing back just a tad.
That's King Weenie to you!
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Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas?
[Re: RapidRobert]
#1642551
07/13/14 05:34 PM
07/13/14 05:34 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 464
KY
Telvis
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 464
KY
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RapidRobert, Thank you for the advice. Pink is the lightest spring. I have it set up for 2 stage advance. Should I just eliminate the purple spring and go with 2 pink springs? From what I understand the purple spring has slack in it and doesn't pull on the tabs until the advance reaches a certain point. Then it slows the advance down a bit before allowing it to go in fully. Two pink springs would be single stage and go straight to full advance fast. Like I said, pink is the lightest spring I have in my kit. I do appreciate the help. So far, it has helped immensely. 
Last edited by Telvis; 07/13/14 05:35 PM.
That's King Weenie to you!
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Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas?
[Re: Telvis]
#1642553
07/13/14 05:45 PM
07/13/14 05:45 PM
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Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog
Striving for excellence
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Striving for excellence
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
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Quote:
Now I actually get to 40 all in at about 1500, maybe even a tad earlier. Took it out and no pinging at all. I hammered it a bunch of times and it makes no valve noise at all.
Not sure if you know it but pinging/knocking and detonation are unrelated to what the valves are doing. You've mentioned "valve chatter" or similar comments more than once and I wonder if you are mistaken. Detonation relates to uncontrolled, early ignition from a variety of reasons, none of which are directly related to the valves.
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Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas?
[Re: RapidRobert]
#1642560
07/13/14 10:47 PM
07/13/14 10:47 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 464
KY
Telvis
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 464
KY
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The slack is in the purple spring. Thats why it does the two stage with that spring combined with another non purple spring. The purple spring only engages once the advance reaches a certain point and slows it down as it goes all in. There's not really slack at idle. The non purple spring is holding the advance. It's just that the advance goes quick until the purple spring gets tension and slows it down. Listen to me...I sound like I know what i'm talking about! I swapped out the purple spring to another pink. It now has two pink springs and goes all in fast. I closed the slots a bit so that I get about 38 degrees all in. I have it set at 22 degrees initial. I took it up the road for a quick ride and it is definitely better. I think swapping the spring made the biggest difference yet.
Last edited by Telvis; 07/13/14 10:52 PM.
That's King Weenie to you!
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Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas?
[Re: dogdays]
#1642564
07/16/14 08:23 PM
07/16/14 08:23 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 464
KY
Telvis
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 464
KY
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Last edited by Telvis; 07/16/14 08:24 PM.
That's King Weenie to you!
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Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas?
[Re: Telvis]
#1642566
07/17/14 01:15 AM
07/17/14 01:15 AM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 3,042
N.W. Florida
Fat_Mike
master
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master
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 3,042
N.W. Florida
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Quote:
I absolutely roasted the tires with no brake usage. I haven't even installed the new torque converter yet!!
That's addictive! You're probably gonna need to contact these folks before long: http://www.tirerack.com/
 
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Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas?
[Re: Fat_Mike]
#1642567
07/17/14 10:00 AM
07/17/14 10:00 AM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 15,487
Florida
scratchnfotraction
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 15,487
Florida
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Quote:
Quote:
I absolutely roasted the tires with no brake usage. I haven't even installed the new torque converter yet!!
That's addictive! You're probably gonna need to contact these folks before long: http://www.tirerack.com/
think it scratches now! wait till the TA3500 TC is in there.
got tires?
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Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas?
[Re: Telvis]
#1642570
07/18/14 02:59 PM
07/18/14 02:59 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,201
Someplace you aren't
SomeCarGuy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 10,201
Someplace you aren't
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I'd double check the TDC mark. It sounds like it might be off a bit if you are running 40-42 total. I sent you a PM on a gear.
I want my fair share
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Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas?
[Re: SomeCarGuy]
#1642571
07/19/14 11:56 PM
07/19/14 11:56 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 464
KY
Telvis
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 464
KY
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I got the new torque converter installed today. I just finished up a bit ago. It was too late to take it out. I will fill it up with trans fluid in the morning and give her a spin. I can't wait!
That's King Weenie to you!
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Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas?
[Re: Telvis]
#1642572
07/20/14 01:32 AM
07/20/14 01:32 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
Sport440
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,591
Canton, Ohio
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Quote:
I got the new torque converter installed today. I just finished up a bit ago. It was too late to take it out. I will fill it up with trans fluid in the morning and give her a spin. I can't wait!
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Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas?
[Re: Ramrod39]
#1642574
07/20/14 02:25 PM
07/20/14 02:25 PM
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Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 464
KY
Telvis
OP
mopar
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OP
mopar
Joined: Sep 2013
Posts: 464
KY
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All I can say is Wow! I had no idea how much difference a good torque converter could make. Between the lower transmission gears, the fine tuning on the distributor and the torque converter my car is now officially a beast! It's almost scary now. I hammered it and it would not stop spinning! It spun all the way into second gear! I even punched it once when I was moving about 15 mph and it lit up the tires! I just came back from about a 45 minute ride. I now have about half the tire tread that I started with. I can't think everyone enough for all of the advice. I need to send an extra shout out to RapidRobert for all of his help. You guys are the greatest. I wish you guys could have seen the ear to ear smile on my face when I was roasting the tires! I have my sights set on a set of 3:55 gears. I can't wait to see how that does.
That's King Weenie to you!
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Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas?
[Re: dd340]
#1642576
07/20/14 02:37 PM
07/20/14 02:37 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,169
Park Forest, IL
slantzilla
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
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Posts: 20,169
Park Forest, IL
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Congrats on your success! Personally, I would not waste my time going to a 3.55 from a 3.23. The actual return will be very small.
"Everybody funny, now you funny too."
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Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas?
[Re: Telvis]
#1642577
07/20/14 03:21 PM
07/20/14 03:21 PM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 15,487
Florida
scratchnfotraction
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 15,487
Florida
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Quote:
All I can say is Wow! I had no idea how much difference a good torque converter could make. Between the lower transmission gears, the fine tuning on the distributor and the torque converter my car is now officially a beast! It's almost scary now. I hammered it and it would not stop spinning! It spun all the way into second gear! I even punched it once when I was moving about 15 mph and it lit up the tires! I just came back from about a 45 minute ride. I now have about half the tire tread that I started with.
I can't think everyone enough for all of the advice. I need to send an extra shout out to RapidRobert for all of his help. You guys are the greatest.
I wish you guys could have seen the ear to ear smile on my face when I was roasting the tires!
I have my sights set on a set of 3:55 gears. I can't wait to see how that does.
Your face is going to be stuck in smile mode every time you drive it now. At the rate of 1/2 a tire every 45 mins your wallet will hurt but you will still be smiling while you watch the tire shop install new tires.
would be a good time to add a torque strap to the engine, lube up the u-joints, spoon up the rear brakes now that it will launch faster.
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Re: 340 not what I thought it would be...Any ideas?
[Re: dogdays]
#1642580
07/22/14 11:51 AM
07/22/14 11:51 AM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 15,487
Florida
scratchnfotraction
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 15,487
Florida
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Quote:
I'm one of the guys who said go to 3.91s. If you are spinning all the way into Second gear, you don't need more gear than what you already have.
Keep the 3.23s!
Drive the doggone thing.
R.
I think the new TC did the trick with 3.23 , the old TC with a 3.91 would have been the same results.IMHO.
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. You sound pumped! With no vac adv I think you can go with a bit more than 35 maybe 38 but for now I would retract it to 35 (you can continue to experiment later) and yes on the springs you want it to advance in a linear (straight line) fashion with no elongated slots or 2 stage etc. (1) get the initial where you want it (2) set the screws for 35 total (3) get the non slot/non stage springs in there that keep it just under the pinging point at WOT up thru the gears and that your spring choice does not start advancing any lower than 200 RPM above your in gear idle speed. You can use mr gasket or MP or even chebby springs in any combo to get the rate you are after but keeping the OE light spring on the one side is a good start. EDIT forgot that you have a Mallory based unit with the colored springs
