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Re: reading these plugs
[Re: Quicktree]
#1628697
06/05/14 08:30 PM
06/05/14 08:30 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Quote:
The wide band is going to possibly become a new found tuning friend and answer some major questions for ya............ 
the wide band sucks for racing imo, I bought a complete FAST set up for my E85. set it exactly what was called for. even put the car on a chassis dyno and let him hook his up. he told me it was perfect. got to the track and it was .15 slower, jetted down 2 sizes and picked right back up. so I am not sold on wide band for racing, thats why I asked for some kind of credible info from people who have tuned with one in relationship to racing and being consistent. the last time this subject came up
Tony... a wide band doent tell you max MPH.. you have
to play to find that... once you find that point you
have a reference point to get back to.. thats why
I use my AFR for mid/cruise only... but once I get
the best points then I write down those numbers for
thos conditions(temp, load,timing, fuel).. change
ANY ONE POINT then I have to find new numbers
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Re: reading these plugs
[Re: Crizila]
#1628701
06/06/14 12:57 AM
06/06/14 12:57 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,969
Chandler, AZ
Duner
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,969
Chandler, AZ
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Quote:
Quote:
What's your target AFR at WOT?
Hey Blaine, 11.5 would be nice - and safe  . What's yours?
I was trying to keep it safe clear down there… and then I noticed that mine really didn't like it there. Mine - with the nice cold air/water intercooler - likes it at 12.2:1 and really doesn't seem to complain at 12.5:1. So that's what my range is. I try to keep it in between those as best I can… although it's really tough since mine eats O2 sensors so often. I go by the plugs - but watch the O2 if I'm making tuning changes. I just have to keep a new sensor around for the occasion.
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Re: reading these plugs
[Re: Thumperdart]
#1628704
06/06/14 06:31 PM
06/06/14 06:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
The wide band is going to possibly become a new found tuning friend and answer some major questions for ya............
the wide band sucks for racing imo, I bought a complete FAST set up for my E85. set it exactly what was called for. even put the car on a chassis dyno and let him hook his up. he told me it was perfect. got to the track and it was .15 slower, jetted down 2 sizes and picked right back up. so I am not sold on wide band for racing, thats why I asked for some kind of credible info from people who have tuned with one in relationship to racing and being consistent. the last time this subject came up
I am giving credible info and never said it`s an "end all" but it gets you real close then you fine tune from there. Once I installed mine and street tuned it when it surged I peeked at the w/b and saw it was rich on cruise so I worked that circuit then repeated till idle and cruise were good and verified that by plug reading. Then tuned wfo saw that it was lean and tuned from there and so on. But hey, we all have our own ways of doin things and some guys still say, "I`d rather be lucky than good" but not me.............I rather learn to be good and get BETTER........... 
you can't be serious, what you call racing and what real racing is are 2 totally different things 
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Re: reading these plugs
[Re: TheOtherDodge]
#1628707
06/06/14 08:08 PM
06/06/14 08:08 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540
Milwaukee WI
TRENDZ
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540
Milwaukee WI
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Gathering all the info you can get your hands on is the best way to get the a/f right. Plug readings, wideband and/or narrow band, and some sort of data recording. Plugs get you in the ball park. wideband gets you what your a/f is, and narrowband tells you what a/f your engine "likes". Putting to much faith in a wideband can be very misleading... especially if you are chasing a number instead of listening to your engine... Different engine conditions(load/RPM) will require different ratios.
"use it 'till it breaks, replace as needed"
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Re: reading these plugs
[Re: TheOtherDodge]
#1628708
06/06/14 10:09 PM
06/06/14 10:09 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,969
Chandler, AZ
Duner
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,969
Chandler, AZ
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Quote:
Duner, I am suprised you are killing O2 sensors. I run mine with the brake and don't have any problems. I run mine a little richer to be on the safe side, if that makes a diff. I do plan on leaning it up a bit though next time.
Right now: 10.9 AFR
Future: 11.5
Mine picked up a ton by going a little bit leaner. Like 3 tenths and 3 mph worth of picked up! Of course what looked like rich on the dyno ended up being a full point leaner in high-gear on the track. The added load from trying to push a barn door thru the wind meant it wanted more fuel.
I am going to try an entirely different wideband setup…. I could have paid for an entirely new system with what I've already invested in just the sensors.
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Re: reading these plugs
[Re: Duner]
#1628709
06/06/14 11:02 PM
06/06/14 11:02 PM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,562
Downtown Roebuck Ont
Twostick
Still wishing...
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Still wishing...
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,562
Downtown Roebuck Ont
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Quote:
Quote:
Duner, I am suprised you are killing O2 sensors. I run mine with the brake and don't have any problems. I run mine a little richer to be on the safe side, if that makes a diff. I do plan on leaning it up a bit though next time.
Right now: 10.9 AFR
Future: 11.5
Mine picked up a ton by going a little bit leaner. Like 3 tenths and 3 mph worth of picked up! Of course what looked like rich on the dyno ended up being a full point leaner in high-gear on the track. The added load from trying to push a barn door thru the wind meant it wanted more fuel.
I am going to try an entirely different wideband setup…. I could have paid for an entirely new system with what I've already invested in just the sensors.
Seems odd that it eats sensors. I'll ask a couple of stupid questions given your credentials .
Unleaded fuel?
Sensor is clocked somewhere between 9:30 and 2:30?
And just so I don't hi-jack the OP, the bung clocking is important because any liquid or condensation needs to be able to drain out of the sensor or it will go bye bye. The OP's looks like it might be pointing the wrong way once the header is installed but it could be just the angle of the photo.
Kevin
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Re: reading these plugs
[Re: Twostick]
#1628710
06/06/14 11:12 PM
06/06/14 11:12 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,969
Chandler, AZ
Duner
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,969
Chandler, AZ
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Quote:
Seems odd that it eats sensors. I'll ask a couple of stupid questions given your credentials .
Unleaded fuel?
Sensor is clocked somewhere between 9:30 and 2:30?
And just so I don't hi-jack the OP, the bung clocking is important because any liquid or condensation needs to be able to drain out of the sensor or it will go bye bye. The OP's looks like it might be pointing the wrong way once the header is installed but it could be just the angle of the photo.
Kevin
The sensor is clocked at about 1:30 (45° angle down) - but it does see some leaded fuel at the track. I fully realize that leaded fuel will shorten the life span - but I'm only getting 3 or 4 passes if I use the 2-step. Without the 2-step they seem to last however long I drive it until I DO use the 2-step…. whether it's 2 or 3 months or just a day.
I have credentials? Hahahaha
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Re: reading these plugs
[Re: Duner]
#1628713
06/07/14 01:55 AM
06/07/14 01:55 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540
Milwaukee WI
TRENDZ
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 2,540
Milwaukee WI
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NTK sensors tollerate lead much better than the bosch sensors from what Ive been told. They are much more expensive though...
"use it 'till it breaks, replace as needed"
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Re: reading these plugs
[Re: Thumperdart]
#1628715
06/07/14 02:07 AM
06/07/14 02:07 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,969
Chandler, AZ
Duner
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,969
Chandler, AZ
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Quote:
Quote:
You are probably right.
Are you familiar with VP-101 unleaded? Sez good for turbo charged and compressions up to 12.1 w/iron and 13.1 w/alum heads.............been runnin it for a couple years now.
I can get that at the pump - but I usually mix 110 leaded with my 92 octane premium.
My boosted compression ratio on my iron head 360 ends up being 21.4:1
(9.5:1 + 18.8 psi of boost)
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