Re: Power brakes vs manual again....
[Re: DoctorDiff]
#1616244
08/03/14 05:38 AM
08/03/14 05:38 AM
|
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog
OP
Striving for excellence
|
OP
Striving for excellence
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
|
After MUCH searching, I found THIS picture. It totally cleared up my confusion. The middle section of the crossbar is where the shorter power brake pushrod connects but it was the section below it that confused me. This picture showed that the bottom section connects to the "cage" that the pedal swings from. I looked under my own dash and did see two mounting holes that I never noticed before. Now it is a matter of collecting some parts to do the swap.
Last edited by Frankenduster; 08/03/14 05:43 AM.
|
|
|
Re: Power or manual brakes.......again. UPDATE.
[Re: Kern Dog]
#1616245
08/03/14 05:57 AM
08/03/14 05:57 AM
|
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,272 Northern Calyfornua
Sxrxrnr
pro stock
|
pro stock
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 1,272
Northern Calyfornua
|
I'm somewhat lurking on this thread. My car is 512 six pack Challenger with very similar background. Was factory non power drum, converted to Wilwood Dynalite front disc, still rear drum, no power,,,don't wish for booster because of clutter.
Wilwood pads on front, almost like one of those old coaster rear brake bicycles with no front brake. Brake pressures are excellent tested with gauge.
Installed Hawk high performance so called low dust pads. Have somewhat ok but still not good braking,,,at least some semblance that fronts are contributing to the cause.
However 20 minutes of driving after cleaning rally wheels, they are as dirty as what you normally see on a Mercedes.
Now considering going to a 72 non power brake, disc brakes MC. Been suggested that May work better.
All new steel lines all the way to calipers. Hard pedal that feels good,,,just mediocre brake performance with dusty wheels.
As I said, lurking and watching to see how this plays out.
|
|
|
Re: Power or manual brakes.......again. UPDATE.
[Re: gregn96cuda]
#1616248
08/13/14 12:38 AM
08/13/14 12:38 AM
|
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog
OP
Striving for excellence
|
OP
Striving for excellence
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
|
To do that, I'd think you'd need to weld over the existing hole to keep from weakening the pedal lever to avoid potential failure. I wonder how the new position affects the angle of the brake pushrod. I do have a spare pedal assembly. Its not a bad idea. I just measured the center-to-center of the brake pedal mount to pushrod on a 73 Duster and a 70 B body. The Duster was 1 7/16" and the B body setup was 1 7/8". This clearly shows that using the A body booster assembly on my Charger put me at a 7/16" disadvantage in leverage force. I'm sure that the loss of leverage along with the weaker single diaphragm booster explains why I've been unhappy with the braking performance from the power setup. I'm still unsure of why the manual brakes were as bad as they were. Since the car originally had manual 4 wheel drum brakes with NO proportioning in the system....Why did it perform so poorly with a manual 15/16" MC with 4 wheel discs? Maybe a REpositioned pedal pushrod is a crutch, but if it works, I'm okay with that.
Last edited by Frankenduster; 08/13/14 02:48 AM.
|
|
|
Re: Power or manual brakes.......again. UPDATE.
[Re: feets]
#1616249
08/17/14 01:27 AM
08/17/14 01:27 AM
|
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog
OP
Striving for excellence
|
OP
Striving for excellence
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
|
Quote:
The A body linkage provides no additional leverage. It's a 90 degree lever with the same length arms.
I just found this to NOT be true. There is a crossbar type linkage similar to what is OEM under the dash in disc brake B body cars. There is a 4 1/2" bar with the rod to the booster actually off center. This shows that the power setup does have a ratio less than the manual setup. My measurements are not 100% accurate, but the theory is correct.
I took a spare brake pedal assy. and drilled a hole 3/8" higher, then welded washers on both sides. This moved the ratio there from 6.6 to one to 8.125. It went from 1 7/8" to 1 1/2". Braking did improve but it still isn't great. I still couldn't skid the tires. The saga continues...
|
|
|
Re: Power or manual brakes.......again. UPDATE.
[Re: gregn96cuda]
#1616251
08/17/14 02:26 PM
08/17/14 02:26 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889 up yours
Supercuda
About to go away
|
About to go away
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
|
Using Mustang rear calipers.
Did you adjust the caliper self adjuster so that there is minimal clearance? If not you get EXACTLY what you are seeing as your symptoms.
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.
|
|
|
Re: Power or manual brakes.......again. UPDATE.
[Re: Supercuda]
#1616252
08/17/14 02:54 PM
08/17/14 02:54 PM
|
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493 Granite Bay CA
Kern Dog
OP
Striving for excellence
|
OP
Striving for excellence
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 18,493
Granite Bay CA
|
I don't know how to adjust the rear calipers! I didn't know that they were adjustable... The Dr Diff stuff didn't come with any instructions. Maybe I can search youTube for videos on this task. One strange and embarrassing thing I found: I have a disc/drum proportioning valve in the system. Sometime during my attempt to switch to manual brakes 2 years ago, I was trying a bunch of different master cylinders, calipers and ditribution blocks/proprtioning valves and somehow I ended up leaving this prop. valve in.
|
|
|
Re: Power or manual brakes.......again. UPDATE.
[Re: Kern Dog]
#1616253
08/17/14 03:06 PM
08/17/14 03:06 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889 up yours
Supercuda
About to go away
|
About to go away
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
|
Pull the caliper outboard until the inner shoe (pad) is firmly seated against the rotor, and measure the clearance between the outer shoe (pad) and the caliper. The clearance must be is 1/32" to 3"32". If it is not, remove the caliper, then readjust the piston the obtain the required gap. Rotate the shaft counterclockwise to narrow the gap and clockwise to widen gap. (1/4 turn of the piston moves it approximately 1/16")
That's what I found, though when I had my 96 Stang I set them a bit tighter. Just an ever so slight drag, like the fronts. Just so you know, the E brake is what compensates for wear on the rear pads, you have to use it. It also has to be properly adjusted and as the pads wear you may have to readjust the E brake.
Check the rear caliper adjustment, get rid of that disc/drum valve and test.
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.
|
|
|
Re: Power or manual brakes.......again. UPDATE.
[Re: Kern Dog]
#1616255
08/17/14 03:50 PM
08/17/14 03:50 PM
|
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889 up yours
Supercuda
About to go away
|
About to go away
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 14,889
up yours
|
As a cheat, you could try to partially apply the E brake to take up some slack and test. One thing about the E brake on the Stang calipers is that it only works with a certain amount of clearance, too much and it will not work. Too little clearance will cause the pads to drag and heat up.
I found out about this the hard way, replaced the pads, which requires rotating the piston all the way in, poor brakes and no E brake, till I adjusted them properly.
They say there are no such thing as a stupid question. They say there is always the exception that proves the rule. Don't be the exception.
|
|
|
|
|