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Re: Engine runs on
[Re: RSNOMO]
#1613996
04/29/14 11:54 PM
04/29/14 11:54 PM
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Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,526
North Carolina
cjskotni
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,526
North Carolina
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Few things come to mind that can cause this: - try more timing, maybe 14-16* initial - running excessively lean causing hot cylinders - richen up mixture - idle speed too high Could be either of these things or some combination thereof. Good luck! 
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Re: Engine runs on
[Re: RapidRobert]
#1614000
04/30/14 01:42 AM
04/30/14 01:42 AM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 12,271
Overpriced Housing Central
RobX4406
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 12,271
Overpriced Housing Central
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10* initial timing... nope no potential issue there.  I run stock 318's with more initial timing! Fix the initial timing to what the engine wants, re-tune the carbs and go from there. It will take some changes to the distributor internals. Simple, grab distributor, twist it a bit CW, if it picks up RPM, it wants the timing. How big of a cam is in this thing?
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Re: Engine runs on
[Re: RobX4406]
#1614002
04/30/14 01:47 AM
04/30/14 01:47 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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I missed that,  what Rob said it definitely needs more than 10
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Engine runs on
[Re: 71birdJ68]
#1614005
04/30/14 01:59 AM
04/30/14 01:59 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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I'd start with the tried & true "vac gauge" method: keep advancing the timing till you reach max vac all the while reducing the idle speed back to the lowest point it will idle in gear at then reduce the timing till the vac drops (1) in hg & that is the ideal initial timing if it does not kick back when starting. If so you can either add an on/off ign switch & get it cranking with the regular ign switch then switch on the auxillary ign sw so it gets power & will fire or reduce the initial 1 degree & retry and another 1 degree if needed
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Engine runs on
[Re: 71birdJ68]
#1614009
04/30/14 12:50 PM
04/30/14 12:50 PM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,162
CT
GTX MATT
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,162
CT
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Carbs are off the idle circuit, more timing, less idle RPM/curb idle adjustment
Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat
Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
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Re: Engine runs on
[Re: GTX MATT]
#1614010
04/30/14 08:31 PM
04/30/14 08:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
383man
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
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If it still gives you problems after the tune is right then I would consider an idle solenoid so it can let the throttle close more at key off. Also if its an auto shut the eng off in gear or if its a stick just let the clutch out when you shut the eng off. Just let the clutch out enough to grab a bit and stall the eng. They are not the real world fixes but many hotrods with large cams idle higher and the popping of the clucth or shut it off in gear helps. Ron
Last edited by 383man; 04/30/14 08:32 PM.
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Re: Engine runs on
[Re: 71birdJ68]
#1614012
04/30/14 09:11 PM
04/30/14 09:11 PM
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Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 259
Khemi, Stygia
Mebsuta
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 259
Khemi, Stygia
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Mine (383 HP) used to run on with lesser grades of gasoline (less than 91 octane). Try the highest grade of gasoline you can get.
Also, the E10 everywhere now helps me. I can actually run 87 or 89 without pinging or running on.
68 Roadrunner. 383 4-spd. Beat up.
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Re: Engine runs on
[Re: 71birdJ68]
#1614013
04/30/14 11:44 PM
04/30/14 11:44 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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Quote:
Where can I find one of those solenoids?
I ain't sure what year(s) they came on. An ad in the wanted section(s) here would likely produce a good used one. EDIT Or eBay might be faster
Last edited by RapidRobert; 04/30/14 11:46 PM.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: Engine runs on
[Re: 71birdJ68]
#1614015
05/01/14 12:39 AM
05/01/14 12:39 AM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 12,271
Overpriced Housing Central
RobX4406
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 12,271
Overpriced Housing Central
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Quote:
I was thinking other than factory that I could adapt. Just the brackets are over a $100, no telling what a solenoids cost.
I'd fix the issue, not the symptom.
Fixing the likely issue is a lot less than that solenoid and bracket!
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Re: Engine runs on
[Re: Barry70GTX]
#1614019
05/03/14 03:09 PM
05/03/14 03:09 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 12,271
Overpriced Housing Central
RobX4406
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 12,271
Overpriced Housing Central
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Quote:
The throttle blades are open too far. Increase the initial timing and close the throttle blades. No reason to have 1100 rpm idle speed.
And the sellout crowd roars it's approval!
What's it cost to see if more initial timing cures the issue. ZERO.
More initial will also clean up those sooty gas fouled plugs. BONUS! An idle solenoid WILL NOT help here.
I'll bet this car cranks excessively when trying to start and needs to floor the pedal or give it some pedal to fire. That's another symptom of not enough initial timing. The total timing crowd falls victim to this all the time.
People complain all the time about how expensive these cars are... hmmm
If you don't have emissions testing to be concerned about, an idle speed solenoid is a waste of money. Emissions is the reason they were used on these cars in the 60-70's.
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Re: Engine runs on
[Re: RSNOMO]
#1614021
05/03/14 04:24 PM
05/03/14 04:24 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 12,271
Overpriced Housing Central
RobX4406
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 12,271
Overpriced Housing Central
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Quote:
Here it is...
Right out of the Service Manual:
'The high performance engines (340, 440, 440 3-2V and 426 Hemi) employ idle speeds between 800 and 1000 rpm to obtain acceptable lower emissions during idle and deceleration. In order to prevent "after running", with such high idle speeds, these engines have an electrical solenoid throttle stop which holds the throttle at the correct idle position when energized but de-energizes when the ignition is turned off, allowing the throttle blades to close more completely.'
My little, old '70 340 Duster had it in place...
900 in neutral;it was needed...
Even back when 10.5 compression burned 97 octane...
Nice reference from the service manual.
Because the correct initial timing was compromised to obtain those acceptable emission readings, they had to crutch the system using a solenoid. More initial timing usually drives HC levels up.
People used to hunt only with clubs and sticks, but, we've evolved.
I made a real good living tuning cars in the 80's and on because people wanted to use the factory ignition settings or fall victim to total timing thinking. My 340 with a tight lashed 284/528 mechanical idles nicely at 750-800 rpm, not stinking out the neighborhood with raw fuel, clean plugs and 22* initial timing. It runs like junk with 10* initial and smells like a leaking fuel truck at idle when timed there.
The OP's issue is based in the inadequate initial timing setting.
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Re: Engine runs on
[Re: RSNOMO]
#1614023
05/03/14 05:05 PM
05/03/14 05:05 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 12,271
Overpriced Housing Central
RobX4406
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 12,271
Overpriced Housing Central
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Quote:
You take issue with EVERYTHING, regardless of its source...
Unless it has your stamp of approval...
Go argue with the engineers who designed it...
Or better yet, go to a Pure Stock event...
And see how poorly OEM performs...
While you are 
Did you miss this.
Quote:
Nice reference from the service manual.
you need some of this? Little cranky?
Those engineers had to work inside a defined box. I bet if you asked them, they'd tell you they'd have rather increase initial timing, however, the emissions regulations/standards wouldn't allow it. Pretty simple.
How should the OP fix this issue?
Pure stock? Nobody in those pits has taken the time to optimize the timing events on the engines.
Pick your parts, pay your money and tune it up however you like.
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Re: Engine runs on
[Re: RobX4406]
#1614024
05/04/14 02:28 AM
05/04/14 02:28 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
383man
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
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Quote:
Quote:
The throttle blades are open too far. Increase the initial timing and close the throttle blades. No reason to have 1100 rpm idle speed.
And the sellout crowd roars it's approval!
What's it cost to see if more initial timing cures the issue. ZERO.
More initial will also clean up those sooty gas fouled plugs. BONUS! An idle solenoid WILL NOT help here.
I'll bet this car cranks excessively when trying to start and needs to floor the pedal or give it some pedal to fire. That's another symptom of not enough initial timing. The total timing crowd falls victim to this all the time.
People complain all the time about how expensive these cars are... hmmm
If you don't have emissions testing to be concerned about, an idle speed solenoid is a waste of money. Emissions is the reason they were used on these cars in the 60-70's.
The idle solenoid can never hurt and if an eng would still run on sometimes when its set to the specs you want then the idle solenoid would be a good idea. I agree with what your saying about setting it so it should not run on but the idle solenoid will never hurt and can only help if the ownwer does not mind spending the money which should not be much as being a tech all my life I had some laying around from jobs so he may be able to fine one from a tech real cheap. Ron
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