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Borgeson / Pitman & Fitment Issue (UPDATED 22 May 2014) #1613679 04/29/14 07:52 PM 04/29/14 07:52 PM
Joined: May 2012 Posts: 841 Santa Fe Springs, CA Dan@Hotchkis OP super stock
Dan@Hotchkis OP super stock Joined: May 2012 Posts: 841 Santa Fe Springs, CA	Hey folks, I know we had this pretty well buried in another thread, so I figured it would make sense to have it's own thread. I test fit one large and one small sector Borgeson box with a variety of pitmans arms and it seems that the small sector boxes have the fitment issues. I have another Pitman coming from another manufacturer tomorrow and it will be the last of these I try. So for it seems the large boxes don't have any issues, and plenty of thread engagement.

Re: Borgeson / Pitman Fitment Issue [Re: Dan@Hotchkis] #1613680 04/29/14 09:46 PM 04/29/14 09:46 PM
Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,491 Lethbridge, AB, Canada dangina pro stock
dangina pro stock Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,491 Lethbridge, AB, Canada	Hey dan, the problems we have seen have been the opposite, good with small - just barely with the large sector, although according to them there is enough thread engagement. Im now wondering if its a quality control issue on their part Last edited by dangina; 04/29/14 09:47 PM.

Re: Borgeson / Pitman Fitment Issue [Re: dangina] #1613681 04/29/14 10:20 PM 04/29/14 10:20 PM
Joined: May 2012 Posts: 841 Santa Fe Springs, CA Dan@Hotchkis OP super stock
Dan@Hotchkis OP super stock Joined: May 2012 Posts: 841 Santa Fe Springs, CA	Quote: Hey dan, the problems we have seen have been the opposite, good with small - just barely with the large sector, although according to them there is enough thread engagement. Im now wondering if its a quality control issue on their part If you do the facebook thing, here is a picture of a large sector with a factory replacement Pitman. Engagement was good, plenty of thread protrusion. https://www.facebook.com/305030966187707...mp;notif_t=like The small I just tested today with a Q/R Pitman had terrible engagement. Seems like the sector is too big or the taper is off. I'll host pictures tomorrow once I finish checking the last arm.

Re: Borgeson / Pitman Fitment Issue [Re: dangina] #1613682 04/29/14 10:43 PM 04/29/14 10:43 PM
Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 813 Ontario,Canada brads70 super stock
brads70 super stock Joined: Jan 2009 Posts: 813 Ontario,Canada	Quote: Hey dan, the problems we have seen have been the opposite, good with small - just barely with the large sector, although according to them there is enough thread engagement. Im now wondering if its a quality control issue on their part That's how I understood it too?

Re: Borgeson / Pitman Fitment Issue [Re: brads70] #1613683 04/30/14 12:01 AM 04/30/14 12:01 AM
Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,491 Lethbridge, AB, Canada dangina pro stock
dangina pro stock Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,491 Lethbridge, AB, Canada	in the pick with the big sector, how many threads are showing when you get your 170lbs of torque? I got just about flush with the fast ratio, and slightly worse with the stock moog arm

Re: Borgeson / Pitman Fitment Issue [Re: dangina] #1613684 04/30/14 12:44 AM 04/30/14 12:44 AM
Joined: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,302 Nebraska 72Swinger master
72Swinger master Joined: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,302 Nebraska	You guys need to measure the thread length and the splined length and maybe figure out where the issue is for Borgeson. Could be the splined part is GTG and the threads are to short or the splined shaft is to big etc, etc,. Mopar to the bone!!!

Re: Borgeson / Pitman Fitment Issue [Re: dangina] #1613685 04/30/14 01:26 PM 04/30/14 01:26 PM
Joined: May 2012 Posts: 841 Santa Fe Springs, CA Dan@Hotchkis OP super stock
Dan@Hotchkis OP super stock Joined: May 2012 Posts: 841 Santa Fe Springs, CA	Quote: in the pick with the big sector, how many threads are showing when you get your 170lbs of torque? I got just about flush with the fast ratio, and slightly worse with the stock moog arm I didn't want to torque it down since we are returning it. The pictures shown is with the nut hand tightened and the threaded portion is flush with the nut. There is full spline engagement.

Re: Borgeson / Pitman Fitment Issue [Re: Dan@Hotchkis] #1613686 04/30/14 04:45 PM 04/30/14 04:45 PM
Joined: May 2012 Posts: 841 Santa Fe Springs, CA Dan@Hotchkis OP super stock
Dan@Hotchkis OP super stock Joined: May 2012 Posts: 841 Santa Fe Springs, CA	New stuff in, more bad news... So this is the box full right turn... And this is the box full left... I figured, maybe flipping the drag link may help.... And it's worse.... Back the way it should be and "centered"

Re: Borgeson / Pitman Fitment Issue [Re: Dan@Hotchkis] #1613687 04/30/14 05:57 PM 04/30/14 05:57 PM
Joined: May 2012 Posts: 841 Santa Fe Springs, CA Dan@Hotchkis OP super stock
Dan@Hotchkis OP super stock Joined: May 2012 Posts: 841 Santa Fe Springs, CA	Good news, Just spoke with Borgeson about the box, seems the center was so tight we weren't getting all the way through in the other direction and the box can steer past the steering stops. Sweep is good. I'll re-torque the Q/R pit man and the Moog and post pictures as well.

Re: Borgeson / Pitman Fitment Issue [Re: Dan@Hotchkis] #1613688 04/30/14 06:32 PM 04/30/14 06:32 PM
Joined: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,302 Nebraska 72Swinger master
72Swinger master Joined: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,302 Nebraska	Good luck with that 67 idler. You must have more faith than I would. Your first picture looks the most "centered" out of all of them. Last edited by 72Swinger; 04/30/14 06:35 PM. Mopar to the bone!!!

Re: Borgeson / Pitman Fitment Issue [Re: Dan@Hotchkis] #1613689 04/30/14 10:27 PM 04/30/14 10:27 PM
Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,491 Lethbridge, AB, Canada dangina pro stock
dangina pro stock Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,491 Lethbridge, AB, Canada	Quote: Quote: in the pick with the big sector, how many threads are showing when you get your 170lbs of torque? I got just about flush with the fast ratio, and slightly worse with the stock moog arm I didn't want to torque it down since we are returning it. The pictures shown is with the nut hand tightened and the threaded portion is flush with the nut. There is full spline engagement. Hmmm weird that they just said mine was fine and shrugged it off when your clearly getting better thread engagement. I still think its a quality control issue that needs to be addressed if everyone is getting different results with different arms. Im just so sick of pulling it off and on again and to ship it back to the states where they might take awhile with it and do nothing, I think ill just leave it the way it is for now and pull it out this winter. Summer is too close and I wanna drive the damn car

Re: Borgeson / Pitman Fitment Issue [Re: dangina] #1613690 04/30/14 10:53 PM 04/30/14 10:53 PM
Joined: May 2012 Posts: 841 Santa Fe Springs, CA Dan@Hotchkis OP super stock
Dan@Hotchkis OP super stock Joined: May 2012 Posts: 841 Santa Fe Springs, CA	Torqued small sector with our Q/R arms. Last thread of nut isn't engaged.

Re: Borgeson / Pitman Fitment Issue [Re: Dan@Hotchkis] #1613691 04/30/14 11:37 PM 04/30/14 11:37 PM
Joined: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,302 Nebraska 72Swinger master
72Swinger master Joined: Feb 2011 Posts: 4,302 Nebraska	Some measurements of my small sector length of threads: .97" diameter or splines at big end: 1.12" diameter of splines at small end: 1.05" length of splines: .978" Mopar to the bone!!!

Re: Borgeson / Pitman Fitment Issue [Re: 72Swinger] #1613692 05/01/14 03:44 AM 05/01/14 03:44 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,467 So Cal autoxcuda Too Many Posts
autoxcuda Too Many Posts Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 27,467 So Cal	Here's a small sector box that was put in last week. Was delivered two weeks or less ago. Pitman was a new 68-72 A-body regular power steering arm. Don't know the exact brand. I did not measure the thickness of the pitman. I might be able to get back there and measure. 8130054-IMG_4915.JPG (352 downloads) Last edited by autoxcuda; 05/01/14 03:47 AM.

Re: Borgeson / Pitman Fitment Issue [Re: Dan@Hotchkis] #1613693 05/01/14 04:38 AM 05/01/14 04:38 AM
Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,491 Lethbridge, AB, Canada dangina pro stock
dangina pro stock Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,491 Lethbridge, AB, Canada	Quote: Torqued small sector with our Q/R arms. Last thread of nut isn't engaged. thats the way mine looks but large sector: which according boregson says its fine. Have you talked to them about this? I wonder if you'll get the same answer

Re: Borgeson / Pitman Fitment Issue [Re: Dan@Hotchkis] #1613694 05/01/14 11:41 PM 05/01/14 11:41 PM
Joined: Apr 2008 Posts: 373 sandwich IL sublimehemi enthusiast
sublimehemi enthusiast Joined: Apr 2008 Posts: 373 sandwich IL	ok guys...i will give you my experience...i was one of the of the first to buy a box...small sector..and i bought pro forged pitman non fast ratio..for my 70 charger..i bought moog pitman so i can do roller bearing mod..just ordered today by the way..but i mocked as is...any way i have many threads showing on engagement...my center link sits so level...if it was sitting flush like yours...my centerlink would be cocked one way...i would post pics but my set up is at shop right now...i will post some pics soon...hope this helps 70 charger ,all aluminum 528 hemi 727 cope rmvb,680hp 670 tq,full sequential holley hp efi,full hotchkis tvs,qa1 k and lowers,borgeson steering box cass viper 11.75 with cass s-trac dana 3.54

Re: Borgeson / Pitman Fitment Issue [Re: dangina] #1613695 05/06/14 12:02 PM 05/06/14 12:02 PM
Joined: May 2012 Posts: 841 Santa Fe Springs, CA Dan@Hotchkis OP super stock
Dan@Hotchkis OP super stock Joined: May 2012 Posts: 841 Santa Fe Springs, CA	Also worth noting, Dougs headers required a bit of massaging to get past the box. They fit the factory box fine. I spoke with Borgeson a bit more on these boxes and the "tight spot" at center is a by product of them using used gear sets and tightening them up, same as what Firm feel does or can do. Borgeson guys said the tight spot would go away after the gears wore in a bit. It seems to me that unless you REALLY need the 12lbs off the nose or are converting a manual car to power; you can get to the same destination by having your box rebuilt by Firm Feel..

Re: Borgeson / Pitman Fitment Issue [Re: Dan@Hotchkis] #1613696 05/06/14 03:52 PM 05/06/14 03:52 PM
Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 3,456 Fly Over States P PHJ426 master
PHJ426 master P Joined: Nov 2005 Posts: 3,456 Fly Over States	For the money and machining center they are using you would think the pitman arms would fit correctly. Darn shame. Any idea if they plan on resolving the issue?

Re: Borgeson / Pitman Fitment Issue [Re: Dan@Hotchkis] #1613697 05/06/14 04:15 PM 05/06/14 04:15 PM
Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,491 Lethbridge, AB, Canada dangina pro stock
dangina pro stock Joined: Nov 2008 Posts: 1,491 Lethbridge, AB, Canada	Thanks dan for posting about the dougs headers. Was wondering how they would fit. Almost bought a set - I bought the hedman headers instead because according to firm feel clear the fast ratio arms. Ill post if they clear the box in the next day or two Last edited by dangina; 05/06/14 04:15 PM.

Re: Borgeson / Pitman Fitment Issue [Re: dangina] #1613698 05/06/14 05:59 PM 05/06/14 05:59 PM
Joined: May 2012 Posts: 841 Santa Fe Springs, CA Dan@Hotchkis OP super stock
Dan@Hotchkis OP super stock Joined: May 2012 Posts: 841 Santa Fe Springs, CA	Quote: Thanks dan for posting about the dougs headers. Was wondering how they would fit. Almost bought a set - I bought the hedman headers instead because according to firm feel clear the fast ratio arms. Ill post if they clear the box in the next day or two To that point as well, Fast Ratio stuff will not clear the Dougs. Standard Ratio barely fit.

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