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Re: Joss Engines 542ci Low Deck Build Thread
[Re: gregsdart]
#1601307
04/01/14 07:51 PM
04/01/14 07:51 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,600
Alberta Canada
StrokerAspen
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Quote:
Did the 4.56 stroke have to use a 2.2 or 2.1 rod bearing? What was the Compression height of the piston?
The 4.56" stroke we had a 2.2 rod bearing, using a rod length of 6.635". The CD of the the piston was 1.120"
The 4.775" stroke engines that we have done using a 440 block, we used a 2.1" rod bearing. This was with a 7" rod length.
Those were steel rodded engines
This 542ci. that we are posting this build of is using a GRP 6.600" rod, with a 2.2" rod bearing. The CD on the piston is 1.120"
Thanks!
-Kenny 
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Re: Joss Engines 542ci Low Deck Build Thread
[Re: BJS racing]
#1601308
04/01/14 07:55 PM
04/01/14 07:55 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,600
Alberta Canada
StrokerAspen
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Quote:
Kenny, are you sure you have?  Oh and by the way I did end up picking up a set of ported W2's for my 408 set up. The only problem is I am not sure I'm ever going to use it now.  
Haha, just a little bit. "Back when I was knee high to a grass hopper!"
-Kenny
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Re: Joss Engines 542ci Low Deck Build Thread
[Re: StrokerAspen]
#1601310
04/01/14 11:07 PM
04/01/14 11:07 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,925
NC
440Jim
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,925
NC
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Quote:
The largest stroke we have run in a stock block, which was in a 440, was a 4.775" billet. We have run a 4.5625" in a 400 block. I am quite confident this combo will work well.
I am sure you can get it to fit. Block clearancing will be needed, the piston will be short, but not unheard of. And the crank counterweights will need to be reduced to somewhere near 7.1" dia, but again that is not unheard of with the bobweight you will have (low). It is just pushing some typical combo dimensions. A good piston design for the small amount of skirt and how far it will be pulled down the cylinder should be considered.
Quote:
This 542ci. that we are posting this build of is using a GRP 6.600" rod, with a 2.2" rod bearing. The CD on the piston is 1.120"
You might want to consider a thick head gasket to get the piston to head clearance for the aluminum rods.  Ask the Al rod guys for the clearance number.
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Re: Joss Engines 542ci Low Deck Build Thread
[Re: StrokerAspen]
#1601311
04/02/14 01:01 AM
04/02/14 01:01 AM
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 174
Oklahoma
hemiiroc
member
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member
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 174
Oklahoma
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Quote:
Quote:
Did the 4.56 stroke have to use a 2.2 or 2.1 rod bearing? What was the Compression height of the piston?
The 4.56" stroke we had a 2.2 rod bearing, using a rod length of 6.635". The CD of the the piston was 1.120"
The 4.775" stroke engines that we have done using a 440 block, we used a 2.1" rod bearing. This was with a 7" rod length.
Those were steel rodded engines
This 542ci. that we are posting this build of is using a GRP 6.600" rod, with a 2.2" rod bearing. The CD on the piston is 1.120"
Thanks!
-Kenny
Did your 4.56 stroke engine have the piston sticking out of the hole?
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Re: Joss Engines 542ci Low Deck Build Thread
[Re: hemiiroc]
#1601312
04/02/14 01:54 AM
04/02/14 01:54 AM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,600
Alberta Canada
StrokerAspen
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Quote:
And I thought my family were the only oddballs that have a 62 Plymouth and a Volare. I love it.
Doug
Haha, yeah, my uncle has a 62 dart, and my daily driver is a Volare wagon!
Quote:
Quote:
The largest stroke we have run in a stock block, which was in a 440, was a 4.775" billet. We have run a 4.5625" in a 400 block. I am quite confident this combo will work well.
I am sure you can get it to fit. Block clearancing will be needed, the piston will be short, but not unheard of. And the crank counterweights will need to be reduced to somewhere near 7.1" dia, but again that is not unheard of with the bobweight you will have (low). It is just pushing some typical combo dimensions. A good piston design for the small amount of skirt and how far it will be pulled down the cylinder should be considered.
Quote:
This 542ci. that we are posting this build of is using a GRP 6.600" rod, with a 2.2" rod bearing. The CD on the piston is 1.120"
You might want to consider a thick head gasket to get the piston to head clearance for the aluminum rods. Ask the Al rod guys for the clearance number.
Thanks for the heads up but I should probably tell you, this isn't our first aluminum rodded engine. We have our clearances we like to run, and they do work well. This is one of 3 aluminum rodded engines coming together in the shop right now. One is a small block dodge, the other is a small block Olds. I guess we kind of are the Aluminum rod guys too.
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Did the 4.56 stroke have to use a 2.2 or 2.1 rod bearing? What was the Compression height of the piston?
The 4.56" stroke we had a 2.2 rod bearing, using a rod length of 6.635". The CD of the the piston was 1.120"
The 4.775" stroke engines that we have done using a 440 block, we used a 2.1" rod bearing. This was with a 7" rod length.
Those were steel rodded engines
This 542ci. that we are posting this build of is using a GRP 6.600" rod, with a 2.2" rod bearing. The CD on the piston is 1.120"
Thanks!
-Kenny
Did your 4.56 stroke engine have the piston sticking out of the hole?
I'll have the dimensions after the block is done machine work. Thanks!
-Kenny
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Re: Joss Engines 542ci Low Deck Build Thread
[Re: StrokerAspen]
#1601314
04/02/14 01:57 PM
04/02/14 01:57 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 9,099
Rogue River, OR
Jeremiah
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 9,099
Rogue River, OR
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That is a cool car! A few questions, pardon me if I missed the info in the thread. 1) Are you going to fill the block? From what I am told that is a lot of stroke for a stock 400 block. How have the other large stroke stock block engines you gys built held up if I may ask? 2) Do you have any specific plans on how you will utilize an .800" + lift cam with those heads? I would think you will need to use longer valves and work on the rocker shaft stands. I have had a tough time finding the right valve spring at .750ish lift on my Edelbrock Victor build. 3) I am curious why you chose not to go with a MW intake port considering the massive displacement of the engine? Keep us updated! Thank you for sharing.
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Re: Joss Engines 542ci Low Deck Build Thread
[Re: Jeremiah]
#1601316
04/02/14 04:55 PM
04/02/14 04:55 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,600
Alberta Canada
StrokerAspen
OP
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Alberta Canada
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Quote:
That is a cool car!
A few questions, pardon me if I missed the info in the thread.
1) Are you going to fill the block? From what I am told that is a lot of stroke for a stock 400 block. How have the other large stroke stock block engines you gys built held up if I may ask?
2) Do you have any specific plans on how you will utilize an .800" + lift cam with those heads? I would think you will need to use longer valves and work on the rocker shaft stands. I have had a tough time finding the right valve spring at .750ish lift on my Edelbrock Victor build.
3) I am curious why you chose not to go with a MW intake port considering the massive displacement of the engine?
Keep us updated!
Thank you for sharing.
Thanks Jeremiah,
It will be a full water block still. The other builds have held up quite well. We have no reservations about putting the 4.5” stroke into the 400 block.
As for the lift, where the port stops working on the bench, We will do our best to get the valve open to where it will work best, if we need to run a little less lift, we will. One place we will have more room will be where a valve seal normally would be haha. I always get bashed for this, but none of our engine get valve seals. Even the 318 in my daily driver Volare wagon has no valve seals.
The MW head is the same casting, and these have been ported to MW size. So, no particular reason, this was the head we have.
-Kenny
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Re: Joss Engines 542ci Low Deck Build Thread
[Re: StrokerAspen]
#1601317
04/03/14 04:28 AM
04/03/14 04:28 AM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 9,099
Rogue River, OR
Jeremiah
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 9,099
Rogue River, OR
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Kenny, That is good to hear regarding longevity vs. CID. I have often heard that lots of stroke and RPM will kill a stock block in relatively short order. On the other hand there are quite a few great running engines of this nature that stay together so it has been somewhat of a confusing topic for me. I am intrigued by the lack of valve stem seals. Is there anything special concerning the preparation of the valve guide? Standard clearance? My hurdle with the Edelbrock Victors was finding a 1.600 diameter valve spring that had compatible spring rates for seat and open pressures. This is using a cam with the following specs on my tunnel ram, pump gas 4.375x4.25 511. FYI it will use 1.7 ration rockers. Cam Specs: ---------------------------- 275/282 @ .050" .448"/.436" Lobe Lift 111 LSA 240-260 closed 680-720 open ---------------------------- *In order to make this work +.050 locks must be used. Lastly, I will be interested to see what you get for flow numbers out of the MW Victors. Will you be putting this engine on the dyno or straight to the killing floor?
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Re: Joss Engines 542ci Low Deck Build Thread
[Re: RAMM]
#1601318
04/03/14 11:13 AM
04/03/14 11:13 AM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,600
Alberta Canada
StrokerAspen
OP
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OP
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,600
Alberta Canada
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Did the 4.56 stroke have to use a 2.2 or 2.1 rod bearing? What was the Compression height of the piston?
The 4.56" stroke we had a 2.2 rod bearing, using a rod length of 6.635". The CD of the the piston was 1.120"
The 4.775" stroke engines that we have done using a 440 block, we used a 2.1" rod bearing. This was with a 7" rod length.
Those were steel rodded engines
This 542ci. that we are posting this build of is using a GRP 6.600" rod, with a 2.2" rod bearing. The CD on the piston is 1.120"
Thanks!
-Kenny
Did your 4.56 stroke engine have the piston sticking out of the hole?
My math shows approx .055" out of the hole @ 9.98" dht. J.Rob
Sorry guys, that was a typo. The 4.56 stroke had a 6.535" rod. Not a 6.635
-Kenny
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Re: Joss Engines 542ci Low Deck Build Thread
[Re: Jeremiah]
#1601319
04/03/14 02:16 PM
04/03/14 02:16 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,600
Alberta Canada
StrokerAspen
OP
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OP
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,600
Alberta Canada
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Quote:
Kenny,
That is good to hear regarding longevity vs. CID. I have often heard that lots of stroke and RPM will kill a stock block in relatively short order. On the other hand there are quite a few great running engines of this nature that stay together so it has been somewhat of a confusing topic for me.
I am intrigued by the lack of valve stem seals. Is there anything special concerning the preparation of the valve guide? Standard clearance? My hurdle with the Edelbrock Victors was finding a 1.600 diameter valve spring that had compatible spring rates for seat and open pressures. This is using a cam with the following specs on my tunnel ram, pump gas 4.375x4.25 511. FYI it will use 1.7 ration rockers.
Cam Specs:
----------------------------
275/282 @ .050"
.448"/.436" Lobe Lift
111 LSA
240-260 closed
680-720 open
----------------------------
*In order to make this work +.050 locks must be used.
Lastly, I will be interested to see what you get for flow numbers out of the MW Victors. Will you be putting this engine on the dyno or straight to the killing floor?
I'll keep you posted on the spring/retainer/keeper choice we make. It sounds like you are on the right path.
We will be running the guides as they came in the heads, with no seals. The engine will puff a little oil smoke on start up every once in a while but that's it. We have 200+ engines out there like that, haven't stuck a valve on one. A lot of these engines are industrial/agriculture engines that run A LOT of hours. One of our customers running one of our Oldsmobile irrigation engines has a short block from 1985 still I believe? (I wasn't born yet)
The 542 will be flogged on our old school engine dyno. Probably won't fine tune it there, as we can dial it in better in the car on the much newer chassis dyno. Thanks!
-Kenny
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Re: Joss Engines 542ci Low Deck Build Thread
[Re: StrokerAspen]
#1601322
12/15/14 11:43 PM
12/15/14 11:43 PM
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Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 644
Minnesota
Barnstorm
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jun 2009
Posts: 644
Minnesota
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Making it look like a 343 dual quad motor would be MAX cool.
The little old lady from Pasadena is back!
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Re: Joss Engines 542ci Low Deck Build Thread
[Re: Barnstorm]
#1601323
12/16/14 03:14 AM
12/16/14 03:14 AM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,600
Alberta Canada
StrokerAspen
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Quote:
Making it look like a 343 dual quad motor would be MAX cool.
 You need to phone my dad at the shop. I'm sure you two would get along great. He actually was hogging out a dual 4 manifold for it. So, YES you will probably see this engine in that trim. We have the Victor 383 manifold as well, which will have an SV1 on it I'm sure. I did make him so decals to play the part on the valve covers
-Kenny
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Re: Joss Engines 542ci Low Deck Build Thread
[Re: Barnstorm]
#1601324
01/14/15 05:14 PM
01/14/15 05:14 PM
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,600
Alberta Canada
StrokerAspen
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OP
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,600
Alberta Canada
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Quote:
Making it look like a 343 dual quad motor would be MAX cool.
The engine is a little bit on the back burner at the moment as we have been busy with other engines. (LS Chevy stuff dare I say!?) Hopefully we can put more time into it soon.
-Kenny
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