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#1592910 - 03/28/14 02:03 PM Re: Hotchkis 76 Dart Build *Updated 20 March 2014 [Re: perlhaqr]
Consulier Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/08/05
Posts: 253
Loc: USA
Quote:

What's the extension on the front side of the engine mount for?



Just mock up stuff.
_________________________
Thanks,

Kevin Wesley



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#1592911 - 03/28/14 04:57 PM Re: Hotchkis 76 Dart Build *Updated 20 March 2014 [Re: Consulier]
jcc Online   content
I Live Here

Registered: 12/21/03
Posts: 16788
Loc: Trumussia
Quote:

Quote:


Neat build, but you guys sure aren't worried about weight are you...??? Starting with the heaviest A-body ever made and adding a LOT ov weight.

If FullMetalJacket wandered in here from the race-only section he'd have a stroke looking at those pictures...

Whats it going to weigh? Any idea?




Under 3000. It started as a Dart Lite, so far from the heaviest a body.




So is the plan to ballast up to 3000? I see Mig and Tig going on here, so I assume this MS and not CM? With such an extensive build I would have thought Cm was a more favorable solution or is that not FIA approved? I wonder what vertical movement/flex might occur with the front bent tower connector brace under dynamic loads.

Your fabricators are talented.

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#1592912 - 03/28/14 06:00 PM Re: Hotchkis 76 Dart Build *Updated 20 March 2014 [Re: jcc]
Consulier Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/08/05
Posts: 253
Loc: USA
Quote:

So is the plan to ballast up to 3000? I see Mig and Tig going on here, so I assume this MS and not CM? With such an extensive build I would have thought Cm was a more favorable solution or is that not FIA approved? I wonder what vertical movement/flex might occur with the front bent tower connector brace under dynamic loads.

Your fabricators are talented.




Chromoly is not allowed by the rules where I will run.

The only class to ballast up to would be that SCCA CAM class. I doubt this car will see much action in that class. Plus, I think that is with driver anyway, so it wouldn't be an issue.

USCA is "dry weight" or less driver as I read it and that would put me in the under 3k class.

If I really want to start taking weight out, I figure there is another couple hundred pounds moving to all fiberglass. Plus I could still do an alum block as well. Don't think I'll need it, unless I move to a small motor for some reason.
_________________________
Thanks,

Kevin Wesley



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#1592913 - 04/02/14 12:29 AM Re: Hotchkis 76 Dart Build [Re: Consulier]
rftroy Offline
mopar

Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 636
Loc: USA
Quote:

Details on the electric steering conversion I posted on FABO.
_________________________
You shove the unit from a Vue/Cruze/Equinox under the dash and run a controller available on eBay.





I'm using a Hower 2:1 steering quickener between the column and the manual box. That will give me 12:1. If I want faster I can switch to a 20:1, or 16:1, box to speed it up more and even go to fast ratio idler/pitman to adjust even further.

Since $$$ seems to be a hot topic in the thread, let's look at how much is going into this solution.

Used Vue column $100
eBay controller $65
Howe Quickener $92
U Joints/Couplers/Steering Shaft $325
Borgeson Manual Box $380

Wow... $962 for a complete electric steering solution with steering box. Price out a new FFI box (or Borgeson), rebuilt column, pump, pulleys and it's pretty much a wash.

What really drove this decision? The headers... 2" TTI Gen3 will not clear any power steering box. It's a heck of a lot cheaper to put in this solution than have a set of custom headers built. Plus, better packaging, adjustable, etc...




Kevin,
I saw this as a great alternative to running a manual 16:1 box in my Challenger since the factory power unit is an increase of almost 40 pounds.
That was before yesterday's news when GM recalled close to a million and a half cars for this faulty electric power steering unit.

So, first, do we know what the flaws in this unit are (they seem to have been corrected after 2010, judging by the recall parameters. Unless this box was discontinued after 2010) and can we, the users, implement any fixes?

Second, would you show us the structure you fabricate to mount the unit under the dash? This would save some wheel reinvention when I go to put mine in an E body.

I wouldn't think it would be too complicated. With the factory setup all the torque is provided by the driver and reacted by the steering box. The column mounts only have to take the lateral reaction loads.
With this electric box a lot of the torque, and a smaller reaction load, is now taken by the dash structure. Since people aren't too strong, I would think that the structure to react the loads would not need to be too hefty.

Have you got this structural reinforcement planned out yet?

Robert
_________________________
AAR 4-speed 3.91, Tor-Red;
70 440 6 pack Roadrunner 4-speed 3.54, Plum Crazy;
68 Formula S conv 383 4-speed 3.23, Electric Blue;
69 Barracuda conv Slant 6 OD4 2.94, 71 B5 blue;
78 Lil' Red Truck, Red;
70 Challenger S/E. Soon to be 505 6 pack, Aluminum Hemi 4-speed, 3.55, Plum Crazy

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#1592914 - 04/02/14 12:58 AM Re: Hotchkis 76 Dart Build [Re: rftroy]
67autocross Offline
super stock

Registered: 11/29/06
Posts: 990
Loc: Manitoba Canada
Quote:

Quote:

Details on the electric steering conversion I posted on FABO.
_________________________
You shove the unit from a Vue/Cruze/Equinox under the dash and run a controller available on eBay.





I'm using a Hower 2:1 steering quickener between the column and the manual box. That will give me 12:1. If I want faster I can switch to a 20:1, or 16:1, box to speed it up more and even go to fast ratio idler/pitman to adjust even further.

Since $$$ seems to be a hot topic in the thread, let's look at how much is going into this solution.

Used Vue column $100
eBay controller $65
Howe Quickener $92
U Joints/Couplers/Steering Shaft $325
Borgeson Manual Box $380

Wow... $962 for a complete electric steering solution with steering box. Price out a new FFI box (or Borgeson), rebuilt column, pump, pulleys and it's pretty much a wash.

What really drove this decision? The headers... 2" TTI Gen3 will not clear any power steering box. It's a heck of a lot cheaper to put in this solution than have a set of custom headers built. Plus, better packaging, adjustable, etc...




Kevin,
I saw this as a great alternative to running a manual 16:1 box in my Challenger since the factory power unit is an increase of almost 40 pounds.
That was before yesterday's news when GM recalled close to a million and a half cars for this faulty electric power steering unit.

So, first, do we know what the flaws in this unit are (they seem to have been corrected after 2010, judging by the recall parameters. Unless this box was discontinued after 2010) and can we, the users, implement any fixes?

Second, would you show us the structure you fabricate to mount the unit under the dash? This would save some wheel reinvention when I go to put mine in an E body.

I wouldn't think it would be too complicated. With the factory setup all the torque is provided by the driver and reacted by the steering box. The column mounts only have to take the lateral reaction loads.
With this electric box a lot of the torque, and a smaller reaction load, is now taken by the dash structure. Since people aren't too strong, I would think that the structure to react the loads would not need to be too hefty.

Have you got this structural reinforcement planned out yet?

Robert




I have a 2012 Mustang with electronic power assisted steering and to be honest it has done a few strange things in the last few years. In the summer if you take a bunch of hard corners it sometimes will shake the steering wheel in your hand after you would pull it straight. And this winter I had the car out maybe 5 times and twice while driving it the steering stuck to the point I had to give it a hard snap to get it to turn, Ford did just put out recall for some of their other cars but not the mustang.
It does have good feel and you can change the steering effort with the push of a button.
_________________________
A new iron curtain drawn across the 49th parallel

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#1592915 - 04/02/14 07:16 AM Re: Hotchkis 76 Dart Build [Re: rftroy]
Consulier Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/08/05
Posts: 253
Loc: USA
Quote:

That was before yesterday's news when GM recalled close to a million and a half cars for this faulty electric power steering unit.

So, first, do we know what the flaws in this unit are (they seem to have been corrected after 2010, judging by the recall parameters. Unless this box was discontinued after 2010) and can we, the users, implement any fixes?



All the news I have seen revolves around the ignition switch for the recall and the power steering issues are for a different system (Cobalts, HHR's, etc...). There are some known issues and known fixes with the one I selected, but those are well documented and simple. When GM fixes it, they just swap out the entire unit, so the entire assembly is labeled as "bad". Typically you will see a burned up motor is this unit, which is available for replacement. Don't lump the Equinox/Vue unit in the with the Cobalts and HHR's. Different system that is being recalled.

One thing to remember, this system is adjustable. The motors burn up from slow parking lot, lock to lock, daily driver stuff. This thing isn't a daily driver. If you are worried about burning the thing up in slow stuff like that, turn the thing down. What's left? Your usual Mopar manual steering.

We'll see how it goes, but I'm not losing sleep over this. It's a very well documented swap in Europe on a lot of cars.

Quote:

Second, would you show us the structure you fabricate to mount the unit under the dash? This would save some wheel reinvention when I go to put mine in an E body.

I wouldn't think it would be too complicated. With the factory setup all the torque is provided by the driver and reacted by the steering box. The column mounts only have to take the lateral reaction loads.
With this electric box a lot of the torque, and a smaller reaction load, is now taken by the dash structure. Since people aren't too strong, I would think that the structure to react the loads would not need to be too hefty.

Have you got this structural reinforcement planned out yet?



When I have pics of the mounts they come up with I will post them up and detail the build.
_________________________
Thanks,

Kevin Wesley



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#1592916 - 04/02/14 11:03 PM Re: Hotchkis 76 Dart Build [Re: Consulier]
rftroy Offline
mopar

Registered: 01/31/06
Posts: 636
Loc: USA
Quote:

Don't lump the Equinox/Vue unit in the with the Cobalts and HHR's. Different system that is being recalled.




Yep, you're right, I checked the recall list; I'm not up on GM vehicles.
Good to know. Thanks, Kevin. Time to hit the wrecking yards.

Looked up specs on Saturn Vue and Chevy Equinox. Saturn is about 3500 lbs., and the Chevy is 3926 per Chevy's website, so the power steering unit should be a decent match to a lightened Challenger, even with big tires.

Robert
_________________________
AAR 4-speed 3.91, Tor-Red;
70 440 6 pack Roadrunner 4-speed 3.54, Plum Crazy;
68 Formula S conv 383 4-speed 3.23, Electric Blue;
69 Barracuda conv Slant 6 OD4 2.94, 71 B5 blue;
78 Lil' Red Truck, Red;
70 Challenger S/E. Soon to be 505 6 pack, Aluminum Hemi 4-speed, 3.55, Plum Crazy

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#1592917 - 04/05/14 03:04 PM Re: Hotchkis 76 Dart Build [Re: rftroy]
dezduster Offline
pro stock

Registered: 02/05/03
Posts: 1233
Loc: Nevada
Wow I am seriously excited about this build on moparts. This stuff reminds me of the fabrication done to class 1 and TT in desert racing. Beautiful fab work excellent pictures, great write up and great responses to questions. Thank you for sharing.


Edited by dezduster (04/05/14 03:15 PM)

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#1592918 - 04/23/14 02:06 AM Re: Hotchkis 76 Dart Build [Re: dezduster]
dangina Offline
pro stock

Registered: 11/19/08
Posts: 1395
Loc: Lethbridge, AB, Canada
curious any pics of the rear part of the rollcage? just curious as to how tied in the rear shock towers together

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#1592919 - 04/23/14 09:02 AM Re: Hotchkis 76 Dart Build [Re: dangina]
Consulier Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/08/05
Posts: 253
Loc: USA
When they get the next round of pics loaded the details should be in there.

I was down for seat and steering column placement a couple weeks ago and looked at it. The rear shock upper mount was all cut out. A new bar between the rails was fabbed and tied into the down tubes of the cage. It moves the upper mount out more so that the shocks are more vertical. Super beefy and reinforced so there shouldn't be any issues with durability.

You can see a little bit in this pic how far out the upper mount was moved.

_________________________
Thanks,

Kevin Wesley



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#1592920 - 04/23/14 09:12 AM Re: Hotchkis 76 Dart Build [Re: Consulier]
72Swinger Offline
master

Registered: 02/23/11
Posts: 4288
Loc: Nebraska
Looks like the rails are moved in a tad. That car should be rediculous.
_________________________
Mopar to the bone!!!

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#1592921 - 04/23/14 10:45 AM Re: Hotchkis 76 Dart Build [Re: 72Swinger]
Consulier Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/08/05
Posts: 253
Loc: USA
Quote:

Looks like the rails are moved in a tad. That car should be rediculous.




Framerails are untouched. Wheel wells are opened up to the outside and you can see the inner tubs are stock.
_________________________
Thanks,

Kevin Wesley



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#1592922 - 04/23/14 11:01 AM Re: Hotchkis 76 Dart Build [Re: Consulier]
72Swinger Offline
master

Registered: 02/23/11
Posts: 4288
Loc: Nebraska
I was looking at the trunk supports and they're different on the Duster trunks. That makes it look like the inner tubs are moved in further. Optical illusion.
_________________________
Mopar to the bone!!!

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#1592923 - 05/14/14 09:56 PM Re: Hotchkis 76 Dart Build [Re: 72Swinger]
NV69B7RR Offline
master

Registered: 11/08/06
Posts: 5668
Loc: Reno, Nevada
Any updates? I love this build!
_________________________
68 AMX track car
72 Demon 340
71 Duster 340 Resto http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/show...part=1&vc=1

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#1592924 - 05/15/14 07:59 AM Re: Hotchkis 76 Dart Build [Re: NV69B7RR]
Consulier Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/08/05
Posts: 253
Loc: USA
Some new updates... just pulled what the PR guys are doing on another site.

When we last saw the Hotchkis Performance East Project 76 Dart the transmission tunnel structure was built and welded into place with reinforcing plates and the sheet metal covering has mostly been finished.







More pics of the transmission tunnel here: Tunnel Pics

Radiator

Now that the engine bay bars have been built and the engine placement finalized, it was time to focus on the cooling system. Obviously for the rigorous racing that Project Dart was going to be used for an OE-spec radiator just wouldn't do. Instead, we opted for this robust all-aluminum unit from BeCool that will offer great reliability and tremendous cooling capacity. After we bolted the unit into place, it was time to secure it from the top to keep it from rocking back and forth. Rather than creating a simple two point brace, we fabricated an entire cooling tray secures the top of the radiator to the upper radiator support and also creates an air dam both in front of and behind the support to maximize the air flow through the radiator and prevent air from escaping over the top.













More pics of the radiator install here: Radiator Pics

Fuel Cell

Safety on a race car doesn't end at just the roll cage and racing seat. A properly mounted fuel cell must also be installed to make sure that the supply of volatile fuel remains safe and leak-free in the event of an on-track collision or off-track excursion. One other important factor when building the fuel cell is to make sure that the unit is level so that your fuel pickup(s) can get as much out of the cell as possible before it runs dry. If the compartment isn't level with the vehicle, you will have an accumulation of fuel on one side of the tank away from the pickup, effectively reducing the usable amount of fuel in the tank.











More pics of the fuel cell construction here: Fuel Cell Pics

Mini-Tub

Obviously one of the major keys to traction is how much rubber you can put in contact with the ground, and the easiest way to stuff as much tire under the rear end of a classic muscle car is to mini-tub it. Now because Project Dart will remain a leaf spring car, we didn't need to go to extremes to widen the wheel wells. We just needed them to be opened up and free of any potential obstructions.













More pics of the mini-tubbing here: Mini Tub Pics

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#1592925 - 05/15/14 08:28 AM Re: Hotchkis 76 Dart Build [Re: Consulier]
Consulier Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/08/05
Posts: 253
Loc: USA
A few more pics in the other albums...







Firewall Pics







Rear Shock Pics
_________________________
Thanks,

Kevin Wesley



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#1592926 - 05/15/14 09:57 AM Re: Hotchkis 76 Dart Build [Re: Consulier]
67autocross Offline
super stock

Registered: 11/29/06
Posts: 990
Loc: Manitoba Canada
Holy F..............! Very Nice
_________________________
A new iron curtain drawn across the 49th parallel

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#1592927 - 06/09/14 08:11 AM Re: Hotchkis 76 Dart Build [Re: 67autocross]
Consulier Offline
enthusiast

Registered: 05/08/05
Posts: 253
Loc: USA
Some pics of the Dart from the Hotchkis East Open House before Power Tower.







Fiberglass Dash from Moparts member B1Cuda.


















Edited by Consulier (06/09/14 08:13 AM)
_________________________
Thanks,

Kevin Wesley



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#1592928 - 06/09/14 11:18 AM Re: Hotchkis 76 Dart Build [Re: Consulier]
72Swinger Offline
master

Registered: 02/23/11
Posts: 4288
Loc: Nebraska
Looks just right Kevin, what wheels? Can we put a 71 Demon nose on her?? That would require a hood change, not really something that is probably a priority.
_________________________
Mopar to the bone!!!

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#1592929 - 06/09/14 12:43 PM Re: Hotchkis 76 Dart Build [Re: 72Swinger]
MuuMuu101 Offline
I got lucky at Woodward!

Registered: 12/12/10
Posts: 12159
Loc: Covina, Ca
Quote:

Looks just right Kevin, what wheels? Can we put a 71 Demon nose on her?? That would require a hood change, not really something that is probably a priority.




Hey, stop trying to make it so mainstream with a Demon front end. It's a '76 Dart Sport.

And I agree, those are nice looking wheels.
_________________________

68 Dart GT Project Thread: Linky!

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