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Re: How much HP? 440-1 500ci
[Re: RockChip]
#1577729
02/12/14 01:24 AM
02/12/14 01:24 AM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,839
MI, usa
dvw
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,839
MI, usa
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950 actual uncorrected HP. Tough but possible with a good combo. I've seen bigger -1 motors do it. Most are head limited. Twist it hard enough and the 500" should be able to mirror the results. Mine has gone 147.7@3340. That's with 572" Eddy carbs and a cross ram. A tunnel ram, Holleys,and 1000 RPM to offset the cubes, it would be close. Doug
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Re: How much HP? 440-1 500ci
[Re: RockChip]
#1577731
02/12/14 01:32 AM
02/12/14 01:32 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,000
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,000
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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The calculator says it will take 924 hp to run an 8.99, in great air. It will be a real stretch at best. If you go all out with a tunnelram, a larger core roller, you might have a shot. But again, those heads flow about 380 max, which limits the power. The point is, the amount of cash to do it will be large, if you shoot for it.
Other things that are against you (assuming a 4.375 bore) are slight shrouding on the intake due to a small bore, and 15 degree heads.
If you can take 200 lbs out of the car, you will have a much better chance. That would take about 870 hp, something that is much more doable with 440-1 heads.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: How much HP? 440-1 500ci
[Re: gregsdart]
#1577732
02/12/14 01:45 AM
02/12/14 01:45 AM
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Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 5,618
long island NY
Ari440
master
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master
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 5,618
long island NY
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3400 pound duster 511ci rb 440-1s cnc 345s 800/277 roller tunnellram and two 750s going 9.85 it would be nice to have a 3000 pound car , be close to low 9,s 
1.39 9.85 - 137 mph
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Re: How much HP? 440-1 500ci
[Re: Ari440]
#1577733
02/12/14 02:48 AM
02/12/14 02:48 AM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 294
Minnesota
RockChip
OP
enthusiast
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OP
enthusiast
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 294
Minnesota
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 " target="_blank">http://s21.postimg.org/iwz013ahj/Freshend_440_1.jpg"> This is what I have, pic from 09 It currently has 2 C&S 800 alky Aerosol cards
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Re: How much HP? 440-1 500ci
[Re: AndyF]
#1577738
02/12/14 11:05 AM
02/12/14 11:05 AM
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Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,839
MI, usa
dvw
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,839
MI, usa
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Quote:
If you're willing to work on the combo, or else hire an engine builder who knows how to make it happen you can see 900+ hp with those heads and inches.
Last time on the dyno my 514 with EZ heads was making 945 uncorrected hp. It was a cold day so the corrected power was about 930 hp. The -1 heads might make more power than the EZ heads, just depends on the combo. The -1 heads have a better exhaust port which may or may not matter. Intake side is a little larger but doesn't necessarily flow much better.
You'll want to order the Jesel rocker arm option and probably the 2.25 intake valve. Best bet is to pick a cylinder head guy to work with from the beginning. Otherwise you'll spend a bunch of money learning lessons the hard way.
A dry sump will pick up a bunch of power if you can fit it into the chassis. I've found that the belt drive and belt drive distributor also help a bunch. I haven't used a tunnel ram yet but in theory a TR should pick up some power also.
4.50 bore size would help make power, run a minimum of 15:1 compression. You'll need to balance CR with valve pocket size and air flow. It gets to be tough to optimize the combination. Better budget a few sets of pistons to get it just right unless you work with someone who knows how to make power with these engines.
Like I said before mine is 572 and low rpm. Asside from the intake and carbs. 14.8-1 w/flat top .043 latteral gas port,.285/292,.800",BME rods,T&D individual shaft,7/16" pushrods,jessel,vauum pump,crank trigger,mega block,2.25 -1 by MCH. No drysump or belt distributor. It's never been dynoed but I'll bet it's 850-900 by it's performance (147.7@3340). Andy could say what he thinks the TR and Holleys are worth.
Doug
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Re: How much HP? 440-1 500ci
[Re: biff426]
#1577740
02/12/14 01:40 PM
02/12/14 01:40 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,026
Trumbull,CT.
jim sciortino
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,026
Trumbull,CT.
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Not easy to do at that weight, but those heads will support the power in a true "max effort" build. Get the heads done by a knowledgeable shop, 4.500 x 4, with a sheetmetal, 2 dominators, correct cam, Ti valves, Jesel, tricky ring stack, etc....spin it 9K.
We had a very low tech 499 w/440-1s in an even lower tech SS spring footbrake streetcar when those heads first came out over 20 years ago and that car at 3280# would run .20s-.40s at 144-146, w/1.28-1.30 60fts.
If it's in a good car, with the right converter, you can get it done.
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Re: How much HP? 440-1 500ci
[Re: jim sciortino]
#1577741
02/12/14 02:17 PM
02/12/14 02:17 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,174
PA.
pittsburghracer
"Little"John
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"Little"John
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 20,174
PA.
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You guys in these heavy cars are fighting a rough battle. I put my 440-1 heads on my 572 to get out some in 2010 and ran a couple of 8.40's@159mph but the cars only 2450 pounds. The engine was built with a cam ground for my B1 heads so that didn't help any and the brand new BG400 pump I installed was pettering out and we never had a chance to try it with a new fuel pump. This engine had nothing special as far as ring pak, vacuum pump and was only a 1050 dominator so yes it can be done at that weight but you better have everything right. The only other thing I'll add is the 8.40 was in Summer time weather and not a shot in the dark sea level Fall type weather.
1970 Duster
Edelbrock headed 408
5.984@112.52
422 Indy headed small block
5.982@112.56 mph
9.42@138.27
Livin and lovin life one day at a time
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Re: How much HP? 440-1 500ci
[Re: Al_Alguire]
#1577743
02/12/14 04:30 PM
02/12/14 04:30 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,000
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,000
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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Dave, I assume you race at BIR, Top End, or Rockfalls? Any of those tracks are going to have a density altitude of +1,000 ft, and those are the good spring and fall days when the track surface is warm enough. Average DA is 2000 to 4000 during the summer, with 50 percent or more humidity. So that is something to factor in.
Last edited by gregsdart; 02/12/14 04:33 PM.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: How much HP? 440-1 500ci
[Re: gregsdart]
#1577744
02/12/14 06:00 PM
02/12/14 06:00 PM
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 636
Central,Ohio
FASTFISH420
mopar
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mopar
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 636
Central,Ohio
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I have been 9.30 at 3300 pounds with -1 on a 572 with 14.1 compression and 800 lift cam.
1969 Barracuda 8 second all/motor small block
2014 Shelby GT500 Mustang
Uratchko Racing Engines
www.URE-RACING.com
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Re: How much HP? 440-1 500ci
[Re: AndyF]
#1577746
02/12/14 09:43 PM
02/12/14 09:43 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,026
Trumbull,CT.
jim sciortino
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,026
Trumbull,CT.
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Quote:
I don't think the RPM has to be huge to make 900 hp, 7500 should get it done. I've seen 940+ hp at 7200 rpm with my 514 so that is one data point. The problem with trying to make power with rpm is that you need more cam duration which then makes it harder to get compression. It does require some trade offs.
The trick is to get a bunch of compression and a bunch of valve lift into the mix. That can be a little tricky to pull off, especially with a lot of cam duration. Adding rocker arm ratio is one way to solve the problem. I use 1.85 ratio on the intake side as a way to get the lift without having to run a huge amount of duration.
Probably need .850 lift or so on the intake side to make the number. It is hard to get that much lift with the Indy heads but it can be done. Buying custom valves a little longer than stock is one way to do it. Other way is careful machine work and top dollar valve springs.
I always liked useable rpm for it's ability to allow for higher converter flash and steeper gear ratios, which allows for greater mechanical leverage throughout the run. Therefore, if it was my deal, I'd build it to cross in the 9K range and try to get peak HP past 8200 and not drop like a rock after peak.
A heavy car is going to have enough trouble 60 footing as is it, so the additional advantage of stall and gear will help get the package to the 330'.
As you know, in an N/A application, there is no making it up after 330', or on the back half. Of course enough tire and proper suspension is required to hammer the thing from the get-go, as a small tire combination has to worry more about management.
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Not a real all out exotic race motor either, basically a bracket mule motor 
That being said my Duster with a pump gas 518 C.I. low deck with a set of non ported Indy SR with M.W. intakes and the same carb. ran high 9s at 134 MPH on pump gas through the muffs, that motor made 727 HP on the same DTS dyno 
