I don't know if anyone is familiar with what the Honda guys do. They have open deck blocks like the R5. Fine until you want a big power adder. I run an EEI aluminum block. Could be even weaker in this respect. EEI offers an updated block for an extra $500. But, if you want to update the existing block with the integrated flange sleeve setup it is $3,000.

I know Wayne Jesel had one custom made and fitted in his land speed Dodge truck. I have talked with the man who did the work. Not something he has a lot of call for so he is not overly anxious about doing another one. It is just not worth the 8 hour trip to have him look and see if he wants to do it.

I have a few ideas how this can be accomplished but would love to hear others. I could fill the block but hate to do this to a very good streetable block. Even wondered if a seperater plate could be made with some water tubes in it and then fill from the plate up. It even seems possible to just drill and tap a few holes around the thrust side of the cylinder and screw aluminum all thread into the block to support the cylinders. Just hate to take any real chances with a very nice expensive block that works just fine NA. Would love to step it up for some go go juice.

You can look up Honda Blox guard on Ebay motors to get an idea what I am talking about when it comes to the block gaurds. I would prefer something that would require machining on CNC a register in the block. Then make a fitted 1/2" thick aluminum guard to press into the block. Just have not found anyone who can affordably do this.

Leon

You raise an interesting and valid point, I hadn't really thought about the open deck with a power adder. It seems like you are the R5 pioneer but is there anyone else who's tried or has done what you plan to do?

Another approach could be to O-ring both the block and heads (on different diameters, so the create a "lock", use steel O-rings and colid copper gaskets, and in this way use the heads to support the sleeves from "sleeve-walk". I did this on an Oldsmobile Diesel once to avoid more headgasket problems. On the R5 the benefit of such a solution is to keep the good cooling for the top rings. My

I've never filled a block so I have no idea what is invloved. But what if you put the heads on the block with a piece of sheet metal with release agent in between the head and the deck, torque them down reasonably and then flip the block upside down on a stand and fill thru the freeze plug holes on each bank. Put just enough to get close to whatever deck thickness you want. This way water could still be circulated under the fill like normal and you'd have support on the top end.

Once the stuff cures you could machine coolant holes for the heads??

Like I said I have no idea how block fill works, but it seems like this might be a way to solve it, with minimal funds invested. Just a thought.

Wouldnt be hard to make, the hard part is putting the geometry on paper or autocad, and getting good dimension numbers from your block so it fits well. The battle is making a blueprint (or file) that accurately lays out what you want.

hey leon why don't u try to get some of the sand they use far casting & fill u'r cylinders up close to top & then pour in u'r block hardner then clean out the sand just like they do when casting,i think u could go to the librey & get a book on casting core material,jg309

The hole idea of hard block is a last resort.

I have had a couple SB engines with hard block and did some limited street driving. The easy thing on LA engines is fill to the bottom of the water pump then you still have complete use of the water movement from there up.

The R5's main water passage is made in the bottom of the water jacket with specific holes for the water to travel out of. This water then works it's way against the deck surface keeping heat out of a normally hard place to do so. My thoughts would be to leave some area above the hard block if that route was chosen for water to circulate cooling the deck. I am not sure how thick the hard block would have to be to stay together and not crack and come apart at some time.

I think JG309 has a fairly good idea. You would not necessarily need casting sand. Any sand that would not allow the block filler from seeping into the sand causing a constant separation getting sand into the cooling system would work. One would have to make up some tubes and wire together to allow for coolant flow through the hardblock.

Not sure what the big risk of sand around a machined block is. When you do this you do one side at a time. One can tape and wrap off all the oil pan and lifter galley area. Them simply pull the core plugs and dump out the sand. You could actually take some heavy grease and fill the water channel holes in the main water passage to keep the most of the sand out of that which would be slightly harder to remove from that are if filled with sand. This is sounding better all the time. And definitely cheaper. But, still a last resort.

I have spent a quite a few hours watching guys with these CNC Block machines do their magic. I can't understand what would be so time consuming to do this right. Probe both sides of the block on a RMC or similar machine. Overlay the two patterns cutting to the larger line. One could even set it up to cut an extra .020". Do this 1.000" deep. Then reverse cut a plate to fit this area .500" deep. Press it in and finish hone the cylinders.

I have asked the question and the price was very high for some reason. I can send the block to EEI and change out the sleeves to ones that seal off the top of the block with channels for water for $3,000. If it were not for the block otherwise being in great shape I would jump all over this. Or the other thing send it down there and they find ways to inflate the cost and find other work that really is not needed.

I have even thought about the O-ring deal quite a bit too. Just have trouble believing the O-rings sticking out .012" against each other would be enough by themselves. With missed tuneups and power adders heads try and lift off the block and all kinds of scary things.

I really appreciate you guys responding to this thread. I'm sure my Mopart's family can find several ways to do this. And maybe someone gifted with a great machine could see a need to do this with a hope for future business with these blocks.

Leon

Well since you have access to a cmm probe that can do read your deck then getting your numbers will be easier than making the part.

I have seen these machines work. I do not have access to one. Or know someone with a such machine that is not completely backed up for the forseeable future.

In my deal I am not going to run water. (Dragster)

But have thought about using a foam core from the lower water inlet up to about 3/4" from the deck. Fill with block filler up to the appropriate level and after it was cured, dig the foam out.

The water manifold would do the rest.

Jeff

That would be reasonable. The interlocking sleeve job is $3000.

Obviously, If there was say 5 people or so wanting to do it, the set up costs would be shared across and make it a less expensive exercise per block.

Ernie says there is 20HP just in doing the interlocking sleeve. That just tells me that a deck support is a valuable addition.

I'm used to spending $3,000 for a block and quite a bit of work. I found the whole engine that is a very nice piece. Just as always want to do more than was done before.

Leon

How many blocks would be enough to make it worth while?

I have been working my Tig to death. So everytime it sets the thermal off I go and stare at this block and some other cast iron blocks I have. I noticed something. The lower water passage is raised on the EEI block. So the divider, for lack of other words, is up higher in the block. From the deck the divider is only 2 1/2" down in the block. In a cast iron block it is further down. Not sure the measurement. I'm sure EEI did this to brace the cylinder.

I just can't see why I could not put thin wall brass tubes in those holes in the divider to provide for water passage through filler. Then just leave the filler short an 1" from the top. This way if worse case comes I still have room for the interlocking sleeves or a block guard.

Now for the new question....

I hear hard block is not the best thing to use in aluminum blocks for filler. So what is? I'm ready to make something happen.

Talked to Mahle and they say these pistons will handle spray. Maybe not the mother load but, a fairly good dose. The VP to ring groove is .145" and the rings are a good bit down. Now just need to see if I have room for aluminum rods. That will be another night.

Leon