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Tranmission clutch material questions #1575225
02/07/14 12:35 AM
02/07/14 12:35 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 833
MN
hemidup Offline OP
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hemidup  Offline OP
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MN
I have my choice of using either OEM brown, Raybesto's high energy green's or Alto Red's.

Here's the application. The clutches are going into a fully electronically controlled transmission to where the computer sets the shift firmness, time between the shifts and line pressures.

Upon engagement between shifts there is a slight hesitation which causes some slippage and undo heat.

Of the 3 types of clutch material I listed above, which one do you think will hold up better to the heat and slip the least.

Thanks in advance.


Jerry Williams.
Re: Tranmission clutch material questions [Re: hemidup] #1575226
02/07/14 01:05 AM
02/07/14 01:05 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 9,841
MI, usa
dvw Online content
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dvw  Online Content
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MI, usa
I've used them all. To be honest the tans usually look the best upon inspection. My friend did tons of friction material testing for Borg Warner, he swears by the Rabestos tans also.
Doug

Re: Tranmission clutch material questions [Re: dvw] #1575227
02/07/14 01:24 AM
02/07/14 01:24 AM
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Posts: 166
MINNESOTA
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BRONZEBEE Offline
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BRONZEBEE  Offline
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MINNESOTA
I would run the oem frictions and put your money into a good transmission cooler.

Re: Tranmission clutch material questions [Re: BRONZEBEE] #1575228
02/07/14 01:39 AM
02/07/14 01:39 AM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,491
Oologah, Oklahoma
Big Squeeze Offline
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Big Squeeze  Offline
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Oologah, Oklahoma
IMHO, aftermarket "performance" clutches are way overrated for anything in the 10's or slower...clutches in an automatic Trans don't slip unless something is wrong...I can fry HP clutches with low line pressure....


If you can't handle the truth, you're living a lie.......
Re: Tranmission clutch material questions [Re: Big Squeeze] #1575229
02/07/14 06:48 AM
02/07/14 06:48 AM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 169
Finland, Europe
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Ck[FIN] Offline
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Ck[FIN]  Offline
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Finland, Europe
I had some overlap issues in my transmission. Its 9s car. The ALTO red eagles can take a lot of abuse and heat. You could feel alot of overlap and i run lots of runs with it. If you have some slipping issues, use red eagle. After i disassembled it, clutches had lots of black markings but they still dont slip.

Last edited by Ck[FIN]; 02/07/14 06:50 AM.

-1965 Valiant 9.03s 358cu.in R5P7-
Re: Tranmission clutch material questions [Re: Big Squeeze] #1575230
02/07/14 04:38 PM
02/07/14 04:38 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 833
MN
hemidup Offline OP
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hemidup  Offline OP
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Once applied the clutches hold. Its during the application is when the slippage happens. The applied speed and pressure is first regulated through a solenoid in the valve body and there is no way to change speed nor pressure. In other words you have to live with a clutch pack that engages very slowly. Through out the years Chysler has changed the clutch matieral's for this transmission often. All the OEM clutches are Borg Warner and the changes I've seen have been tan, brown, green, black and to the latest Borg Warner one sided red's which have all failed from burning up or warping which takes away the clutch clearence. Here's a pic from the start of a clutch pack failure with OEM clutches. Once a clutch or steel gets warped and takes away the clearence the rest of the pack gets burnt like toast in short order and the reason I asked about Raybesto's high energy or Alto red's.


Jerry Williams.
Re: Tranmission clutch material questions [Re: hemidup] #1575231
02/07/14 05:14 PM
02/07/14 05:14 PM
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MINNESOTA
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BRONZEBEE Offline
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MINNESOTA
Talk to Sharadon Performance in hugo mn, they have work on the 45rfe under high load applications.

Re: Tranmission clutch material questions [Re: BRONZEBEE] #1575232
02/07/14 05:51 PM
02/07/14 05:51 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 833
MN
hemidup Offline OP
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hemidup  Offline OP
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Quote:

Talk to Sharadon Performance in hugo mn, they have work on the 45rfe under high load applications.




I'm the guy involved with Sharadon and helped them blue print and build those transmissions. My truck has been the test mule since 2006. As Denny told me from Sharadon...It's either we build a better transmission or knock the power down in your truck. Yeah, right lol. Currently I'm working on transmission revision #17 and hopefully the last one. Also, hat's off to member here, Ed McDonald cause he's been very helpful with his knowledge since revision #11 or was it 12? lol.


Jerry Williams.
Re: Tranmission clutch material questions [Re: hemidup] #1575233
02/08/14 12:28 PM
02/08/14 12:28 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 169
Finland, Europe
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Ck[FIN] Offline
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Ck[FIN]  Offline
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Finland, Europe
Does ALTO make 1 sided red eagles with kolene steel? Those steels take lots more heat before they warp at all.

Do you have big transmission cooler?

And this of course?
http://www.sonnax.com/parts/2164


-1965 Valiant 9.03s 358cu.in R5P7-
Re: Tranmission clutch material questions [Re: Ck[FIN]] #1575234
02/08/14 02:10 PM
02/08/14 02:10 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 833
MN
hemidup Offline OP
super stock
hemidup  Offline OP
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Posts: 833
MN
Quote:

Does ALTO make 1 sided red eagles with kolene steel? Those steels take lots more heat before they warp at all.

Do you have big transmission cooler?

And this of course?
http://www.sonnax.com/parts/2164




Thanks for the reply. Alto made a 1 sided red clutch without the Koleen treatment. They did make a red 2 sided clutch you can use with OEM steels. I don't know whether they offer those anymore, but I do know they do offer 2 sided Alto reds and Koleen steels for 2nd gear and 4th gear. When I was in the process of R&D, Alto sent me an assortment of clutches and steels to try and I'm still playing around with those. The problem is that with this particular transmission there are certain holding clutches and application clutches which require different clutch materials. Alto red's work fine for most packs, but not the best choice for others.

As far as resistor mod's? Fakes the TCM into thinking the clutches are wearing and will increase the line pressure from 10-15 psi at wot and you may or may not get a CEL for low line pressure detected.

I believe my trans cooler is more than efficient even with the 3000-5000 stall converter's I've tried. The trans fluid temps stay around 160*F give or take.


Jerry Williams.






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