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Turbo Question
#1571497
01/31/14 12:58 PM
01/31/14 12:58 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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Romeo MI
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I'm looking to add a pair of turbos to my 416..I was doing some sizing but ran into a snag... I dont want much in the line of power... this is more for the go fast look... I really dont want more than 300 hp over the N/A power or I might end up ripping the block apart... what I was looking at was a pair of GT45... the specs show T4 flange 4" V-band outlet comp wheel trim : 50 comp A/R 0.066 turbine wheel trim 77 turbine A/R 1.05 what do you think about this... I wont be going more than 7200 rpm and was thinking to keep the boost in the 6 psi range... would this one be a bit slow to come in... remember this would be twins.. good flowing heads in a 2900# car... I will be running air/air inner coolers(2 of them) thanks guys.... I figured I'd ask instead of doing all the flow calculation on this engine(but maybe I will end up doing it) 
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Re: Turbo Question
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1571499
01/31/14 01:10 PM
01/31/14 01:10 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,969
Chandler, AZ
Duner
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,969
Chandler, AZ
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I don't think you are going to get much response out of 2 turbos that size at all. If you are only wanting to make 6 psi - just one of those would work fine. Go to this website and enter your parameters - and it will show you which part of the compressor map you will hit. Pick either of the GT45 turbos to look at. I think you will be way to the left of the surge line with two turbos that bit. It would look cool - but take forever to spool - if they will. http://www.squirrelpf.com/turbocalc/
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Re: Turbo Question
[Re: Duner]
#1571500
01/31/14 01:31 PM
01/31/14 01:31 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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Quote:
I don't think you are going to get much response out of 2 turbos that size at all.
If you are only wanting to make 6 psi - just one of those would work fine.
Go to this website and enter your parameters - and it will show you which part of the compressor map you will hit. Pick either of the GT45 turbos to look at. I think you will be way to the left of the surge line with two turbos that bit. It would look cool - but take forever to spool - if they will.
http://www.squirrelpf.com/turbocalc/
That page doesnt load..... so far I'm getting 2 conflicting
ideas as to lag.. you say they wont even spin up and
the other guy says there shouldnt be any lag
EDIT
Got the page to load up
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Re: Turbo Question
[Re: Duner]
#1571504
01/31/14 01:49 PM
01/31/14 01:49 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
I don't think you are going to get much response out of 2 turbos that size at all.
If you are only wanting to make 6 psi - just one of those would work fine.
Go to this website and enter your parameters - and it will show you which part of the compressor map you will hit. Pick either of the GT45 turbos to look at. I think you will be way to the left of the surge line with two turbos that bit. It would look cool - but take forever to spool - if they will.
http://www.squirrelpf.com/turbocalc/
What do you see on that site for a GT45 map
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Re: Turbo Question
[Re: Duner]
#1571506
01/31/14 01:56 PM
01/31/14 01:56 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
Where did the red plot line end up after you put in all your parameters and selected 2 of the GT45's? 2 of those turbos means that 1 of them is feeding 208 cubes at a time.
Since you're only wanting 1.5 BAR - you won't be using much of the compressor on the bigger turbos. I'm betting a pair of 60's or 70's would go a long way toward your goals. At least with the squirrel site - you can see where you end up on all those different turbos for comparison.
Actually the T04B series with62-1 trim drops me right
in the middle of the island
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Re: Turbo Question
[Re: Duner]
#1571508
01/31/14 02:01 PM
01/31/14 02:01 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Quote:
The GT4508 or the GT4594.
For instance, the GT4594 has the Garrett description in the map itself at the bottom of it.
What kind of power does your 416 make without boost? And what is the expected HP power after adding boost?
Right now its 570 hp but thats with 10.5 comp so
when I drop the comp I would guess it would be about
490 hp(with about 8.8-9.0 comp) but only looking at
a max power of 800 or maybe a bit more
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Re: Turbo Question
[Re: Duner]
#1571511
01/31/14 02:18 PM
01/31/14 02:18 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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Quote:
OK. Then I was guessing exactly right at thinking it was an 800hp target.
You will still have a huge window for making more power should you simply up the boost number. Of course, once you start to creep off the RH side of the map - the charge temps go up quite a bit. I'm still impressed about how much lower my charge temps are after going from a single GT4202 to a Chinese T76. I fall right up the middle of the T76 island - so it doesn't melt the full 20# of ice on each pass now! 
I figured there would be plenty left in it if I decided
to turn it up some.. but then you get into the breakage
issue with the other parts... what do you figure a
standard studded head will hold for pressure(SB, not
a R3 block) ... that was why I was thinking to keep
the pressure down
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Re: Turbo Question
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1571513
01/31/14 02:36 PM
01/31/14 02:36 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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Next question is on the A/R... the one I said lays it nice on the island is the 62-1 trim.. now in a lot of the specs it shows like a A/R .60 and a A/R 1.15 on the turbine side...but yet I cant find a map of this on that site to see how it lays up
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Re: Turbo Question
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1571515
01/31/14 02:40 PM
01/31/14 02:40 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,969
Chandler, AZ
Duner
top fuel
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,969
Chandler, AZ
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That's always been a problem. They need a map of the turbine side so we can tell how or what it's doing. My T76 has a T4 hot side of a .96 A/R and I believe it's actually strangling it in the upper rpms. My plan is to go to a 1.15 A/R in the future and see what difference it makes.
Hate to bail on a good conversation - but I gotta go to work. Be back tonight.
Last edited by Duner; 01/31/14 02:42 PM.
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Re: Turbo Question
[Re: Duner]
#1571516
01/31/14 02:43 PM
01/31/14 02:43 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
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Quote:
My 9.5:1 Magnum block, factory head bolts with Iron Ram EQ heads has been very reliable at 18.8 psi of boost for quite a few years now with it's Cometic head gaskets. I haven't gotten greedy with the timing at 22°, and have kept the AFRs between 12.2:1 and 11.5:1 depending upon temps and fuel quality. At the track I try to keep it at 100 octane or more by mixing 91 with 110.
On the street I run it at 12 psi of boost on premium 91 octane - with 20° of timing max.
All with air/water intercooler keeping the IATs at ambient.
I'll be running 2 air to air coolers and will have
a fair bit of length of alum tubing from out of the
coolers to the hat(I think I'll start out as a carb
but later change over to injected when some money
comes around)
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