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Texas World Speedway - CCW - Jan 25-26 #1569982
01/28/14 02:07 AM
01/28/14 02:07 AM
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Houston Tx
Uhcoog1 Offline OP
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Had a two day even this weekend, and had a blast. Car ran great both days. I was in the green run group again, and had the same instructor as the event 2 months ago.

Saturday afternoon we passed 8-12 cars in both sessions. Clicked off a couple 2:12's on lesser traffic laps. Didn't get any video, as contour camera was dead.

Cars passed this weekend:
2014 corvette, a couple FR-S's, Mustangs, Lamborghini, Ferrari F430, Porsche 911 turbo, Audi TT, Mustangs, ZL1 Camaro, Nissan GTR, BMW M-series, Lotus, etc
Car that passed me this weekend:
2012 Lamborghini Superleggera

I still think a 2:05-2:08 is possible on these tires as the car sits, I just need to get my driving there. My instructor wants me driving at 60%, and braking twice as early as I think I need to. I need to get more consistent with carrying speed into corners and becoming more consistent with hitting reference points. Once I get those two things down, then we can start working on braking zones and squeezing the last few seconds out of the car. All that said, the car performed very well and did everything I asked, and we were faster than everyone in the group but the Superleggera.

The solid sway bar end links worked great. The car had less roll, and I believe the tires had less edge wear from the lost camber, though we're still getting additional outside wear on these tires. I'm also starting to wonder if that's just an aspect that comes with this dual compound tire, as the outside is 'softer' than the inside. I flipped one set inside out, so I'll measure that set and see how it wore when put in the front for the last 3 sessions.

Alignment was:
6.9* caster
-2.5* camber
0" toe

I was only able to get two videos (out of 8 sessions), due to a dead camera battery. This is the first two sessions on Sunday. Not my best runs from the weekend. First session I overdrove the car (poorly) trying to catch the superleggera, and was able to close a little ground once I quit that. Second session I ran a lap with the superleggera on my tail, and spun out when I hit the apex curbing coming out of the carousel (didn't realize it was that steep - lesson learned - stay off steep curbs!).

I didn't get any lap times from Sunday. Third and fourth sessions went well; third my instructor didn't have much to say, and fourth he let me run solo. In the fourth, I did cook it through a braking zone, missed my turn in, and went straight off track (straightened the wheel before doing so - no damage AFIK).

Videos:
First Sunday Session
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPJ3tcWxk...jrA&index=1

Sunday Second session - Spin at 2:20
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zy5W5uUXAac&feature=share&list=UULmauI0f-d_etqBKwN98jrA

A couple good pictures from the weekend:
Mid-spin:




Part of run group lined up ready to go:




A couple favorites:










Full photo album, including photo string of car spinning:
http://s1271.photobucket.com/user/uhcoog...rt=3&page=1


-'02 Dodge Viper Ex-World Challenge racecar
-'73 Duster, 6.1 based 392 hilborn hemi, tko600, full floater rear 9", Hellwig custom bars, viper brakes, built for road course
Re: Texas World Speedway - CCW - Jan 25-26 [Re: Uhcoog1] #1569983
01/28/14 02:17 AM
01/28/14 02:17 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,468
So Cal
autoxcuda Offline
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Quote:

....

I still think a 2:05-2:08 is possible on these tires as the car sits, I just need to get my driving there. My instructor wants me driving at 60%, and braking twice as early as I think I need to. I need to get more consistent with carrying speed into corners and becoming more consistent with hitting reference points. Once I get those two things down, then we can start working on braking zones and squeezing the last few seconds out of the car. All that said, the car performed very well and did everything I asked, and we were faster than everyone in the group but the Superleggera.




Sounds like you are going in too hot. That will cause more roll too. And cause more tire wear.

What is the "green group" ?

Quote:

The solid sway bar end links worked great. The car had less roll, and I believe the tires had less edge wear from the lost camber, though we're still getting additional outside wear on these tires. I'm also starting to wonder if that's just an aspect that comes with this dual compound tire, as the outside is 'softer' than the inside. I flipped one set inside out, so I'll measure that set and see how it wore when put in the front for the last 3 sessions.




Be carefull not to get all tied up in fine details trying tune to your current experience and driving style. Those will change, and your setup needs will change too.

Last edited by autoxcuda; 01/28/14 02:23 AM.
Re: Texas World Speedway - CCW - Jan 25-26 [Re: autoxcuda] #1569984
01/28/14 02:37 AM
01/28/14 02:37 AM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
72Swinger Offline
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I need to make a family visit coincide with one of those events and bring the Dart to Texas one of these years. Be great to run a big track like that.


Mopar to the bone!!!
Re: Texas World Speedway - CCW - Jan 25-26 [Re: 72Swinger] #1569985
01/28/14 02:41 AM
01/28/14 02:41 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,468
So Cal
autoxcuda Offline
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Quote:

I need to make a family visit coincide with one of those events and bring the Dart to Texas one of these years. Be great to run a big track like that.




Bigger tracks seem more favorable to our larger cars. From the pictures it looks like a much faster bigger track that I saw your blue Dart run on.

Re: Texas World Speedway - CCW - Jan 25-26 [Re: autoxcuda] #1569986
01/28/14 02:44 AM
01/28/14 02:44 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 723
Houston Tx
Uhcoog1 Offline OP
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Uhcoog1  Offline OP
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Quote:



Sounds like you are going in too hot. That will cause more roll too. And cause more tire wear.

What is the "green group" ?

Be carefull not to over tune to your current experience and driving style. Those will change, and your setup needs will change too.




Five run groups: green, blue, yellow, red, instructor. Green is mostly novice drivers.

Going in too hot - are you saying my entry speeds are too hot? I think they're too slow as a general rule (because I can and want to get back on gas before the apex more often than not). Though I need to be specific with what corners I want to increase entry speed, and what corners to leave alone.

I'm trying to tune the car to reduce uneven tire wear and tire temperatures. That is all.

The part of my driving I expect should and will change:
-need smoother inputs (specifically turn in needs to be smoother and more gradual)
-higher and more consistent corner entry speeds (if I'm on the gas before apex, I'm not entering fast enough)
-more specific and consistent reference points
-rolling into throttle at apex to exit (been getting on throttle late, which leaves room on the table on corner exit)
then:
-later braking zones

Those who track on a regular basis - feel free to add to the list or change the priority order.


-'02 Dodge Viper Ex-World Challenge racecar
-'73 Duster, 6.1 based 392 hilborn hemi, tko600, full floater rear 9", Hellwig custom bars, viper brakes, built for road course
Re: Texas World Speedway - CCW - Jan 25-26 [Re: Uhcoog1] #1569987
01/28/14 03:18 AM
01/28/14 03:18 AM
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 240
Plano, Texas
6
68cuda440 Offline
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Plano, Texas
How do I find out about these events BEFORE they occur? I live close by TMS. Need to finish my car and get it out there so we can have 2 A-body cars in the beginners group.


Michael 1968 Barracuda Notchback Coupe 440 EFI 6-pack, T56 Magnum 6-spd
Re: Texas World Speedway - CCW - Jan 25-26 [Re: 68cuda440] #1569988
01/28/14 03:25 AM
01/28/14 03:25 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 96,662
On The Boat, On The Lake, Wa. ...
amxautox Offline
Still Retired. Still Posting on Moparts. A Lot.
amxautox  Offline
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On The Boat, On The Lake, Wa. ...
Looks like they changed their name from 'motor' to 'world';


http://www.texasworldspeedway.com/


Tom

"Everyone should believe in something; I believe I'll go fishing."

-Henry David Thoreau

Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths

author unknown

Re: Texas World Speedway - CCW - Jan 25-26 [Re: amxautox] #1569989
01/28/14 03:30 AM
01/28/14 03:30 AM
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 10,645
Houston, Tx
A
AlexP Offline
I Live Here
AlexP  Offline
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Houston, Tx
Theres Texas World Speedway in College Station and also http://www.texasmotorspeedway.com/ in Fort Worth.


My Build thread: Let the hemi swap begin!

1968 wanna be pro touring whatchamacallit with some fancy stuff and a new roof skin.
Re: Texas World Speedway - CCW - Jan 25-26 [Re: AlexP] #1569990
01/28/14 03:36 AM
01/28/14 03:36 AM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 96,662
On The Boat, On The Lake, Wa. ...
amxautox Offline
Still Retired. Still Posting on Moparts. A Lot.
amxautox  Offline
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Oh, ok, I didn't know there was 2. Thanks.


Tom

"Everyone should believe in something; I believe I'll go fishing."

-Henry David Thoreau

Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths

author unknown

Re: Texas World Speedway - CCW - Jan 25-26 [Re: amxautox] #1569991
01/28/14 04:23 AM
01/28/14 04:23 AM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
72Swinger Offline
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Mopar to the bone!!!
Re: Texas World Speedway - CCW - Jan 25-26 [Re: Uhcoog1] #1569992
01/28/14 04:28 AM
01/28/14 04:28 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 12,375
SoCal
MuuMuu101 Offline
I got lucky at Woodward!
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SoCal
Good God! That looks fun. I can't wait to have my Dart built up nice enough to take it out for some fun. Super jealous.

Re: Texas World Speedway - CCW - Jan 25-26 [Re: Uhcoog1] #1569993
01/28/14 05:02 AM
01/28/14 05:02 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,468
So Cal
autoxcuda Offline
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Quote:



Going in too hot - are you saying my entry speeds are too hot? I think they're too slow as a general rule (because I can and want to get back on gas before the apex more often than not). Though I need to be specific with what corners I want to increase entry speed, and what corners to leave alone.




You made the comment, "My instructor wants me driving at 60%, and braking twice as early as I think I need to."

I interpeted that as you are braking too late and driving to hard.

I hear the similiar things from instructors, "go slower to go faster."

But it's always a lot of information to process from an instructor. It's tough remembering all of it and tough explaining it to others.


Quote:

I'm trying to tune the car to reduce uneven tire wear and tire temperatures. That is all.

The part of my driving I expect should and will change:
-need smoother inputs (specifically turn in needs to be smoother and more gradual)
-higher and more consistent corner entry speeds (if I'm on the gas before apex, I'm not entering fast enough)
-more specific and consistent reference points
-rolling into throttle at apex to exit (been getting on throttle late, which leaves room on the table on corner exit)
then:
-later braking zones





I think getting better at that stuff will help the tires look better.

I myself get distracted fiddling with the car. Especially as a novice, worrying about tuning the car at the track is not as important as worrying about tuning the driver at the track.

Re: Texas World Speedway - CCW - Jan 25-26 [Re: autoxcuda] #1569994
01/28/14 05:13 AM
01/28/14 05:13 AM
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Nebraska
72Swinger Offline
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One major point my instructor hammered into me was braking "late" is ok but never brake INTO a turn, always try to coast TO the start of apex and transition to throttle at or just after apex. Also throttle application should coincide with the steering wheel steady but returning to center.
Edit: Another thing that helped me feel more comfortable was riding with my instructor in his car with the fast group. WOW what a difference.

Last edited by 72Swinger; 01/28/14 05:17 AM.

Mopar to the bone!!!
Re: Texas World Speedway - CCW - Jan 25-26 [Re: autoxcuda] #1569995
01/28/14 10:31 AM
01/28/14 10:31 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 723
Houston Tx
Uhcoog1 Offline OP
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Uhcoog1  Offline OP
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Quote:



You made the comment, "My instructor wants me driving at 60%, and braking twice as early as I think I need to."

I interpeted that as you are braking too late and driving to hard.

I hear the similiar things from instructors, "go slower to go faster."

But it's always a lot of information to process from an instructor. It's tough remembering all of it and tough explaining it to others.






I follow what you meant now! I interpreted his advice as "let's get the important part right first- learning to carry momentum into the corners, and then work on cutting time getting to that point." But, his advice when I overdrive the car is to back it down to 60%, so I'm sure there's truth in what you're saying as well.


-'02 Dodge Viper Ex-World Challenge racecar
-'73 Duster, 6.1 based 392 hilborn hemi, tko600, full floater rear 9", Hellwig custom bars, viper brakes, built for road course
Re: Texas World Speedway - CCW - Jan 25-26 [Re: Uhcoog1] #1569996
01/28/14 11:09 AM
01/28/14 11:09 AM
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USA
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Consulier Offline
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Quote:

The part of my driving I expect should and will change:
-need smoother inputs (specifically turn in needs to be smoother and more gradual)
-higher and more consistent corner entry speeds (if I'm on the gas before apex, I'm not entering fast enough)
-more specific and consistent reference points
-rolling into throttle at apex to exit (been getting on throttle late, which leaves room on the table on corner exit)
then:
-later braking zones

Those who track on a regular basis - feel free to add to the list or change the priority order.




1) You need to fix your hands. 9 & 3 and you have to shuffle. If your hand passes 12 it went too far. When you spun, you could have saved it if your hands were farther apart and you worked the wheel. Keeping your foot in the gas didn't help (modulate), but your hands couldn't keep up with the inputs the car needed.

2) The main reason you lost it was driving your mirror. Identify, ignore, let them by at the next passing point. Always check your mirrors, but they aren't going anywhere until the next passing zone. Don't even pay attention to them if you aren't at a point you can let them by. You got distracted, lost focus and were unprepared for the hit on the curb. But, the curb didn't cause it, it was you not expecting it.

3) Use the entire track. You are leaving a lot of room at the apex, entry and exit. If you want to put all the power down on exit you need to track out all the way to the edge while unwinding the wheel.

4) Carry more speed. There are a lot of sweeping corners that open up a lot more than it looks if you use the whole track at exit. Stay on the gas, power through and modulate. Sometimes it's just a tap of the brakes to nose over for some grip and then back on the gas through the corner.

5) Don't judge your speed by the other cars in your group. Doesn't matter what they drive, it's all the driver. You can start to do that in the more advanced groups. Green is a total crap shoot and the drivers are super inconsistent.

Sounds like you are having fun, which is the most important part of it all. Keep it up and you will get better over time.

Re: Texas World Speedway - CCW - Jan 25-26 [Re: Consulier] #1569997
01/28/14 01:28 PM
01/28/14 01:28 PM
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Houston Tx
Uhcoog1 Offline OP
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Quote:



1) You need to fix your hands. 9 & 3 and you have to shuffle. If your hand passes 12 it went too far. When you spun, you could have saved it if your hands were farther apart and you worked the wheel. Keeping your foot in the gas didn't help (modulate), but your hands couldn't keep up with the inputs the car needed.

2) The main reason you lost it was driving your mirror. Identify, ignore, let them by at the next passing point. Always check your mirrors, but they aren't going anywhere until the next passing zone. Don't even pay attention to them if you aren't at a point you can let them by. You got distracted, lost focus and were unprepared for the hit on the curb. But, the curb didn't cause it, it was you not expecting it.

3) Use the entire track. You are leaving a lot of room at the apex, entry and exit. If you want to put all the power down on exit you need to track out all the way to the edge while unwinding the wheel.

4) Carry more speed. There are a lot of sweeping corners that open up a lot more than it looks if you use the whole track at exit. Stay on the gas, power through and modulate. Sometimes it's just a tap of the brakes to nose over for some grip and then back on the gas through the corner.

5) Don't judge your speed by the other cars in your group. Doesn't matter what they drive, it's all the driver. You can start to do that in the more advanced groups. Green is a total crap shoot and the drivers are super inconsistent.

Sounds like you are having fun, which is the most important part of it all. Keep it up and you will get better over time.




Thanks for the tips, Kevin! My instructor was harping on #2 and #4 on your list. I'll add your tips to the notebook and hopefully show improvement on the next track day.

I definitely learned my lesson the spin - well really a couple lessons. First, pay attention to steep curbs at the apex or other track features that could get you in trouble if you don't expect them. Second, and more importantly, if you're in front of someone who you are not sure if you are faster than or not, let them pass. Find out if you're faster from behind, not in front! Put them in the hot seat.

I'll make sure and work on using the whole track on corner exit. I need to do a better job of breaking down the track and being specific on what corners need what improvement.

Question for you:
How much do you attempt to fix each lap? Each session? Do you go in with a gameplan on specific things or specific corners that need improving?

Also- do you use data logging to help identify points on the track that need driver improvement? I feel like this could be a useful tool, but could potentially be data overload.


-'02 Dodge Viper Ex-World Challenge racecar
-'73 Duster, 6.1 based 392 hilborn hemi, tko600, full floater rear 9", Hellwig custom bars, viper brakes, built for road course
Re: Texas World Speedway - CCW - Jan 25-26 [Re: Uhcoog1] #1569998
01/28/14 03:36 PM
01/28/14 03:36 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 256
USA
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Consulier Offline
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Quote:

How much do you attempt to fix each lap? Each session? Do you go in with a gameplan on specific things or specific corners that need improving?



I really don't try to analyze too much of anything to be honest. I am not one of those people that is hung up on data. It really all depends on where I end up in the standings for the event I'm at.

If I'm doing well and everything feels ok, then I just run it and try to have fun. There isn't any money to win, so why bust my butt and beat on the car to go a second faster and not move up. If it's close, I'll generally just go tidy up some entry and exit points to get a clean lap.

I'm usually chasing something stupid with the car, or something I was lazy about and didn't work on before I got there. So, quite often it's just get a decent lap and be done with it.

Quote:

Also- do you use data logging to help identify points on the track that need driver improvement? I feel like this could be a useful tool, but could potentially be data overload.



No full blown data logging. If I'm close to move up a spot I'll mount my phone to use one of the free GPS based track maps to watch sector times and overall lap time.

When it comes to stuff like this, I am probably the worst to ask advice from. If the car is sorted and I'm familiar with the track, I will generally set my fastest lap within 3 laps in my first session. If it's a new track I'll have it sorted by the second session.

I generally will not chase tenths of a second. Too many variables and you have to weigh the risk. No sense in going 10 tenths for a trophy and risk the car for an extra tenth. There are events I will do this at, but PT events are not one of them.

Re: Texas World Speedway - CCW - Jan 25-26 [Re: Consulier] #1569999
01/28/14 05:13 PM
01/28/14 05:13 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 723
Houston Tx
Uhcoog1 Offline OP
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Uhcoog1  Offline OP
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Quote:


When it comes to stuff like this, I am probably the worst to ask advice from. If the car is sorted and I'm familiar with the track, I will generally set my fastest lap within 3 laps in my first session. If it's a new track I'll have it sorted by the second session.





Wow. Impressive!


-'02 Dodge Viper Ex-World Challenge racecar
-'73 Duster, 6.1 based 392 hilborn hemi, tko600, full floater rear 9", Hellwig custom bars, viper brakes, built for road course






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