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Re: Mark stielow Camaro vs tim werners valiant
[Re: feets]
#1568643
01/28/14 08:03 PM
01/28/14 08:03 PM
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Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 126
mass
kotacars
OP
member
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OP
member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 126
mass
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My car currently is all mopar old and new but I plan to upgrade it using DSE parts due to the fact I have taking it as far as it can go with simple bolt on parts.
Last edited by kotacars; 01/29/14 09:19 AM.
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Re: Mark stielow Camaro vs tim werners valiant
[Re: 68cuda440]
#1568646
01/29/14 12:59 AM
01/29/14 12:59 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,467
So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,467
So Cal
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Quote:
Quote:
I can sort of understand Chrysler's reasoning on this though.
I think there rational is if they can't make money off their product, no one should be able to.
I'm thinking conflict of interests. You are at paid at work to make money for the company and produce the best products possible.
Now lets say you were employed designing cyl heads for Chrysler. And you also had a business selling CNC'd and/or hand ported cyl head. Now could you have financial gain by designing a sub par cyl head that would leave opportunity for your Cly porting business to sell more ported heads?
I'd say the opportunity is there. And the company does not want even the possibility of that. Nor the company having to spend time and resources qualifying who is or could be hurting the company designs for own personal gains.
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Re: Mark stielow Camaro vs tim werners valiant
[Re: autoxcuda]
#1568647
01/29/14 01:53 AM
01/29/14 01:53 AM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
72Swinger
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
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Chrysler used to be a little more easy going with letting the engineers play outside the box "after hours". What was his name? Jimmy Addison? The Silver Bullet GTX? Here kid take the latest and greatest a$$ kicking technology and go do some spanking.
Mopar to the bone!!!
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Re: Mark stielow Camaro vs tim werners valiant
[Re: 68cuda440]
#1568649
02/02/14 07:59 PM
02/02/14 07:59 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,238
Nevada
dezduster
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,238
Nevada
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Would camber help in the rear? I remember Rusty Wallace of NASCAR got caught using some sort of trickery to camber the passenger side wheel on the rear. I never saw how but my thoughts were full float rear and a CV inside. Certainly this could help a solid rear perform better to a small degree. Oh I am excited to see the return of the Flying Green Brick. One of my favorite cars and stories. So something like this could add some toe in also. http://www.racefactoryinc.com/racegarage/cvdriveplate.jpg
Last edited by dezduster; 02/02/14 08:29 PM.
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Re: Mark stielow Camaro vs tim werners valiant
[Re: dezduster]
#1568650
02/02/14 08:09 PM
02/02/14 08:09 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 104,346
Garden Grove, CA
OzHemi
Penguin-hating Ginger
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Penguin-hating Ginger
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 104,346
Garden Grove, CA
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Quote:
Would camber help in the rear? I remember Rusty Wallace of NASCAR got caught using some sort of trickery to camber the passenger side wheel on the rear. I never saw how but my thoughts were full float rear and a CV inside. Certainly this could help a solid rear perform better to a small degree.
Rear camber is easy...
http://www.msfracingcomponents.com.au/camberedfullfloaters/
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Re: Mark stielow Camaro vs tim werners valiant
[Re: OzHemi]
#1568651
02/02/14 08:31 PM
02/02/14 08:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,467
So Cal
autoxcuda
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,467
So Cal
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Quote:
Quote:
Would camber help in the rear? I remember Rusty Wallace of NASCAR got caught using some sort of trickery to camber the passenger side wheel on the rear. I never saw how but my thoughts were full float rear and a CV inside. Certainly this could help a solid rear perform better to a small degree.
Rear camber is easy...
http://www.msfracingcomponents.com.au/camberedfullfloaters/
That's big bucks.
The circle track guys to it with thier floater rears by having beveled splined ends on thier axles. Then just bend (heat/weld quench) the axle tubes.
You can get 1/8 degree just bending the banjo housing of a stock rear. It's not going to explode. But not going 100K miles either. I've heard of dedicated autocross cars getting 1/4 deg or more out of a stock straight axle. Trailered race cars basically.
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Re: Mark stielow Camaro vs tim werners valiant
[Re: OzHemi]
#1568652
02/02/14 08:34 PM
02/02/14 08:34 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,238
Nevada
dezduster
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,238
Nevada
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After I posted I went looking. Sure enough lots of builders to choose from. Possibly the next step for an aggressively driven solid axled daily driver track car. For those with the means and desire to up the ante. http://www.racefactoryinc.com/racegarage/cvdriveplate.jpg
Last edited by dezduster; 02/02/14 08:39 PM.
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Re: Mark stielow Camaro vs tim werners valiant
[Re: autoxcuda]
#1568653
02/02/14 09:26 PM
02/02/14 09:26 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 104,346
Garden Grove, CA
OzHemi
Penguin-hating Ginger
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Penguin-hating Ginger
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 104,346
Garden Grove, CA
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Would camber help in the rear? I remember Rusty Wallace of NASCAR got caught using some sort of trickery to camber the passenger side wheel on the rear. I never saw how but my thoughts were full float rear and a CV inside. Certainly this could help a solid rear perform better to a small degree.
Rear camber is easy...
http://www.msfracingcomponents.com.au/camberedfullfloaters/
That's big bucks.
The circle track guys to it with thier floater rears by having beveled splined ends on thier axles. Then just bend (heat/weld quench) the axle tubes.
You can get 1/8 degree just bending the banjo housing of a stock rear. It's not going to explode. But not going 100K miles either. I've heard of dedicated autocross cars getting 1/4 deg or more out of a stock straight axle. Trailered race cars basically.
Road racing in Oz isn't cheap...  but it is quite popular. Lots of cars built for it, sicne there are quite a few not only track, but open road races as well.
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Re: Mark stielow Camaro vs tim werners valiant
[Re: kotacars]
#1568654
07/24/14 11:43 AM
07/24/14 11:43 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,388
Pikes Peak Country
TC@HP2
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,388
Pikes Peak Country
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Quote:
I was hoping this thread would see some good ideas but I think someone has already said it. The mopar guys are to cheap or don t like change/different the point was there is no need to cut the car up or continue to use stock type parts to make it handle.
From my perspective, I see it as the original Mopar designs being much more capable and not requiring as much work to be effective as the original Chevy and Ford designs. Think about it, in 1966 when Trans Am first started and was predominately independants, Chrysler won 50% of the O-2 races. Once Ford and Chevy stepped in and began lobbying for rule changes to allow changes to pick up points and alterations to the stock layouts, only then did they begin the dominance that carried through the rest of the series. That upgrade and modification mindset has continued to this day to overcome OEM design deficits. That isn't to say Mopar doesn't have their own issues, but we tend to start at a much higher point in the curve.
Quote:
My car currently is all mopar old and new but I plan to upgrade it using DSE parts due to the fact I have taking it as far as it can go with simple bolt on parts.
So, I see it this way...if you are using all DSE parts then the only real difference between your car and any Camaro will be the sheetmetal. If that is the objective, why not just start with a Howe chassis and hang the sheetmetal on it and make it easier to build and work on them messing around with the stock unibody structure?
This is part of my issue with "pro-touring" as a genre. The group think mentality that only new is worth a crap and the level of modification is such that so many guys are running such similar set ups, where is the real ingenuity and variety in equipment? How many $100k cars can be outrun by a $10k, well thought out and refined stock set up? Probably more than a few. I think Mary Pozzi has proven that theory out several times over.
If you have topped out your car in bolt on equipment, then get creative with engineering, geometry and fabrication. The biggest issue I see with a stock Mopar front suspension is the whole caster/camber compromise and the lack of t-bar rates, which actually lends itself well to the big bar, soft spring approach and the shock technology is there to support it.
Simply adapting DSE equipment to a Mopar is a comparable cop out to just buying a Camaro and bolting on DSE parts. It just takes a bit more cutting to do what your suggesting.
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Re: Mark stielow Camaro vs tim werners valiant
[Re: TC@HP2]
#1568655
07/24/14 12:26 PM
07/24/14 12:26 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
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I'm so old school that I feel the spirit and intent of hot rodding is tossed aside when using abs, traction control, etc and then trying to compare cars/driving talent. I'm not arguing its safer, its progress, its neat, but it mainly de-emphasizes the human component and amplifies the wallet factor, and we know where that leads. Guess everyone has to play to their strengths. I also guess we could go back to wagon racing. I still don't have to like it. 
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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