Re: Hemi ID Question
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#1568186
01/24/14 11:48 PM
01/24/14 11:48 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,228 Maple Valley, WA
70mopes
OP
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OP
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I am headed over there tomorrow to drop off some parts. I will try and get some shots of the rail. So you are saying that the stamping looks done by someone/someplace other than the factory? The numbers and the "G" look almost factory in nature.
Even though it has had the same owner for over 40 years, it was raced by the dealership prior to sale and was damaged pretty good at that time. It is going to take some sustained effort to get it back into shape. If the motor was treated anything like the body, it most certainly could have sustained a variety of issues that affected it negatively. It is said to only have 28k on the clock. Overall a totally cool mopar... Glad just to have got to see it.
Last edited by 70mopes; 01/24/14 11:51 PM.
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Re: Hemi ID Question
[Re: srt]
#1568189
01/25/14 01:21 PM
01/25/14 01:21 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,766 North Dakota
6PakBee
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That is strange. It definitely isn't a '66 or '67 used motor as the pads are stamped differently. My guess is that it's a later block or service block that was restamped with the VIN. The presence, or absence, of the numbers in Scott's photos should determine which. I've attached what a '68 bellhousing stamping looks like.
"We live in a time when intelligent people are being silenced so that stupid people won't be offended".
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Re: Hemi ID Question
[Re: 70mopes]
#1568190
01/25/14 02:06 PM
01/25/14 02:06 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,123 Chicago Blackhawks
hemicar1971
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When Hemis were very plentiful in my part of the world and a hemi went to a rebuilder, the rebuilder would sometimes put a serial number on a motor to mark the parts. You have to remember a lot of hemi motors do not have serial numbers on them. The marking of a serial number on the Pad on the front of the block is easy to recognize for the assembler. I know I have marked the rods, crank, balancer and other parts so when I get it back I know the motor has the parts in it that I gave them and not someone elses parts. The number on the pad is it the number on the VIN Pad.
1971 HEMI E BODY REGISTRY
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Re: Hemi ID Question
[Re: hemicar1971]
#1568191
01/25/14 02:32 PM
01/25/14 02:32 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,526 Las Vegas, NV
6bblgt
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![](/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/iagree.gif) The OP's pic does not show the factory partial VIN stamping that should be present. Those numbers were added at some point after production. Scott's pic shows where the factory stamped them in '70. "G" could be the plant code. Is the car RM21R0 plus the digits on the top pad : G193539 ? (answered below: NO)
Last edited by 6bblgt; 01/25/14 10:01 PM.
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Re: Hemi ID Question
[Re: 6bblgt]
#1568192
01/25/14 02:44 PM
01/25/14 02:44 PM
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hemicar1971
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I do not see an assembly dates on the pad either. Makes me wonder if this is a replacement block and that is why the serial number was stamped on the front pad.
Dan did you look at the last email I sent you with your weekend home work. I had a bigger list but can not find it, hope this can add something to your information.
1971 HEMI E BODY REGISTRY
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Re: Hemi ID Question
[Re: 6bblgt]
#1568194
01/25/14 05:14 PM
01/25/14 05:14 PM
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hemicar1971
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I have a 70 Hemi block in the basement but it is decked so nothing on the pad at all. Have to go and take a look at my 1971 Hemi motor out of the Cuda on the floor in the garage and see what is on it. There was nothing but the WT on another 1970 Hemi Block I owned that was an over the counter block that I sold. All the 1966 Hemi Motors I have owned or own have the Letter on the motor, the "B" for the year.
1971 HEMI E BODY REGISTRY
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Re: Hemi ID Question
[Re: hemicar1971]
#1568195
01/25/14 08:15 PM
01/25/14 08:15 PM
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hemicar1971
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Went out in the garage and took a look at the 1971 motor. Just like you said Dan, WT on the pad also an A. Will have to see what Chrysler says about that A.
1971 HEMI E BODY REGISTRY
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Re: Hemi ID Question
[Re: 6bblgt]
#1568210
01/26/14 01:30 AM
01/26/14 01:30 AM
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hemicar1971
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Looks like the "A" stands for a 20 over size piston. If Chrysler stamped the "A" on the block of my Cuda then it is a 429 Hemi just like a Ford Hemi. I believe when the motor was built the last time the builder stamped the block with the "A" knowing exactly what it was for for future rebuilding information.
1971 HEMI E BODY REGISTRY
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Re: Hemi ID Question
[Re: srt]
#1568212
01/26/14 02:23 PM
01/26/14 02:23 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714 Spokane Washington
ScottSmith_Harms
Mr Wizzard
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Mr Wizzard
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Quote:
The machine marks suspicious.
They look factory to me
Concerning the Race Hemi Orange paint (which looks original) all 64-68 Hemis and SOME 69 Hemis were painted Race Hemi Orange. So, it's likely that it was built before the paint color change. As stated, it's most likely a typical service replacement engine of the era that was put into inventory and used when needed as a warranty replacement or simply sold over the counter, etc. The other stampings were added after the fact by whomever, without a paper trail the rest is pure speculation.
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Re: Hemi ID Question
[Re: 6bblgt]
#1568219
01/26/14 03:39 PM
01/26/14 03:39 PM
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hemicar1971
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What is needed to be found out to start a search is just what was changed on this motor. Was there a replacement of a block only, short block or long block or complete motor. What version or year is the intake now on the motor. What year are the carbs and is there anything that is a different year to the body on the motor. How does anyone know if there was a complete total change of the motor without more information and maybe taking a look at some date codes on each part of the motor.
Back in the day you would rebuild your race motor every off season. Bearings, rings and updates every winter. Anytime I do any kind of build or rebuild of a motor every thing is taken down to bare metal. Blocks and heads go into the Hot Tank and cleaned. This would mean all paint would be eliminated from the cast iron parts such as the block. So if paint was left on the block then did someone just do a CIL rebuild on the motor by just painting everything. So did the complete motor get the paint of did just some pieces such as the block.
1971 HEMI E BODY REGISTRY
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Re: Hemi ID Question
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#1568220
01/26/14 04:39 PM
01/26/14 04:39 PM
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Posts: 1,954 Blairsden, CA
Triggerfish
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Quote:
But as far as the date on the pan rail extension, you might be right Dan, but I've seen some earlier blocks (originals installed in cars) with similar dates, so I can't comment with certainty on that one.
This tag was on a block installed into a 66 Hemi car, it was said to have been purchased as a replacement from Kieth Black back then. I can't say for sure but it appears that it was painted at the factory, either that or someone took the time to mask off the tag before painting and installing the engine.
There's orange paint on the tag, so that leads me to think it wasn't painted at the factory...
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Re: Hemi ID Question
[Re: Triggerfish]
#1568221
01/26/14 04:59 PM
01/26/14 04:59 PM
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Posts: 5,123 Chicago Blackhawks
hemicar1971
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The oil pan is black, not sure why and not sure if it is factory or aftermarket or altered factory pan. The Oil Pan bolts, is that bluish on them and the type of bolts? The only way to know more is to have someone go with the OP and look at all the numbers and colors and what ever that can give more information. Kind of a nice post for learning about different stuff on a Motor and how things were put together.
1971 HEMI E BODY REGISTRY
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Re: Hemi ID Question
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#1568222
01/26/14 05:27 PM
01/26/14 05:27 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 5,366 Rancho Cordova, California (Sa...
hemi71x
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When i had these Hemi engines, along with a NOS hemi short block, in the crate, none of them were stamped on the ID pad. They did have the WT stamp, along with one or two, letters "B" on the pad. And by the way, the NOS shortblock was unpainted.
RF-4C Phantom 69-370 Zweibrucken, Germany
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Re: Hemi ID Question
[Re: 68jim]
#1568224
01/26/14 06:45 PM
01/26/14 06:45 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 42,714 Spokane Washington
ScottSmith_Harms
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Quote:
I agree on the not painted part.
I also agree, but I am leaving the door open for other possibilities. I've seen quite a few NOS blocks (so far all bare) but have seen a fair number of warranty installed examples also, and some offer clues pointing towards some of them possibly being factory painted. Hopefully we as a group can keep investigating and add to the details we know about these.
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Re: Hemi ID Question
[Re: ScottSmith_Harms]
#1568225
01/26/14 10:23 PM
01/26/14 10:23 PM
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mccannix
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Scott Wouldn't it make sense for someone to paint an engine just before installing. If I were putting an over the counter block in back in the day, I would certainly have painted it. I cant see the factory doing it..but then I wasn't there either. The picture of your painted engine with the blue tag shows the rivet just resting against the tag like someone added it. Those tags have always been available for sale if you look hard enough. I know of two old school buses with about 15 'over the counter' blocks in their old wooden crates... 273, 318, 360, 361, 400's and none were painted. Nor were the 340 or 440's that are gone now, painted.
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Re: Hemi ID Question
[Re: mccannix]
#1568226
01/27/14 02:56 AM
01/27/14 02:56 AM
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hemicar1971
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Never seen a bare block or short block that was bought from a Dealership ever having paint on it. The Hemi Short Block that was stolen from a person on Moparts and made its rounds from person to person then showed up on a thread on moparts was not painted just like the one above. I have had a few 440 bare blocks counter bought and all were not painted. The Hemi over the counter blocks I have owned were all used before I got them but I bought them completely without paint because they were ready to be assembled. One other thing, at one time when I built a motor I could not get Hemi Street Orange from the Dealership or any other place. This was around late 70s. I ended up using Plastikote Orange that is close in color back then. I have no idea why no one had Street Hemi Orange at the Dealerships.
1971 HEMI E BODY REGISTRY
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Re: Hemi ID Question
[Re: MarkMcDonald]
#1568228
01/28/14 06:08 PM
01/28/14 06:08 PM
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Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,672 Virginia
HemiStan
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I have been reading this thread as well as this one: 70 440 Warranty Block I have this 1970 Hemi block with no VIN stamping. It does have the WT on the front pad. I can find no evidence of a hole in the side of the block for a rivet retaining a metal tag. As you can see from the back of the engine, there appears to be some of the correct Hemi Orange paint remaining. The rest of the orange paint seems to have been painted later and with the incorrect color. I don't know if these pictures add anything to this thread but they may provide a bit more information regarding OTC and warranty replacement blocks. From looking at the pictures, does anyone have anything that they could share regarding this block? Thanks. Stan
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Re: Hemi ID Question
[Re: HemiStan]
#1568233
01/28/14 06:13 PM
01/28/14 06:13 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,098 A Banana Republic near you.
JohnRR
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Quote:
I have been reading this thread as well as this one: 70 440 Warranty Block
I have this 1970 Hemi block with no VIN stamping. It does have the WT on the front pad. I can find no evidence of a hole in the side of the block for a rivet retaining a metal tag. As you can see from the back of the engine, there appears to be some of the correct Hemi Orange paint remaining. The rest of the orange paint seems to have been painted later and with the incorrect color.
I don't know if these pictures add anything to this thread but they may provide a bit more information regarding OTC and warranty replacement blocks. From looking at the pictures, does anyone have anything that they could share regarding this block?
Thanks.
Stan
Stan that tag would only be affixed to an engine that was an assembly , I wouldn't expect to find the tag on a bare block that went over the counter .
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Re: Hemi ID Question
[Re: HemiStan]
#1568238
01/29/14 12:25 PM
01/29/14 12:25 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 1,029 Southeast Virginia
68jim
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Quote:
Does yours have a "B" stamped on the front pad?
Stan,
Aside from the usual WT it also has two "B"s stamped on the pad.
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Re: Hemi ID Question
[Re: hemicar1971]
#1568239
01/29/14 10:40 PM
01/29/14 10:40 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 8,020 Pangaea
B5 Bee
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Quote:
Mind your Ps and Qs. If I can remember correctly a block bore size can be 70th over stock in Super Stock. Can not remember the crank but it is something like 3.85. Wish I had an old NHRA book to study again. Going only by my memory and it is getting older and older, and I will type this like a question. Did Chrysler not put different letters on the side of the blocks to signify what piston went into each bore when assembling a Hemi at the factory. I thought I remember BCDEF piston sizes. So the Ps and Qs would be for another type of Chrysler description of a bore size of a Hemi Block.
NHRA allows OEM stroke plus .015, or 3.75 + .015 = 3.765.
The extra .015 gives about 1.75 cu in. Every bit helps in SS.
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