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Re: Carb size question [Re: 68LAR] #1567056
01/23/14 08:48 PM
01/23/14 08:48 PM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,464
Sydney,Australia
tex013 Offline
top fuel
tex013  Offline
top fuel

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,464
Sydney,Australia
duh ,
get my remembering cap on as to your first note . Yes the motor is a pump and will only pass through what the smallest restriction allows , for peak flow . If the carb is the restriction and you increase its size that will help . My example is the heads were the restriction - they had reached max flow and a bigger carb did not help power / flow . Yes a smaller carb can restrict flow and reduce power , as I noted with the hp950 I tried plus the back to back carb test on the dyno with new heads. But remember a smaller carb will often have a better signal and can help the short times ,responsiveness , but give up a bit in the top , this can only be seen on the track not dyno . That is why I start with an 1.40/42 venturi carb for performance use , maximum power .
JMO
Tex


New best ET 10.259@129.65 .
New best MPH 130.32
Finally fitted a solid cam,
stepped it up a bit more
3690lbs through the mufflers
New World block 3780lbs 10.278@130.80 . Wowser 10.253@130.24 footbraking from 1500rpm
Power by Tex's Automotive
Re: Carb size question [Re: tex013] #1567057
01/23/14 10:26 PM
01/23/14 10:26 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,013
South Park, Pa.
68LAR Offline OP
master
68LAR  Offline OP
master

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,013
South Park, Pa.
Quote:

Yes the motor is a pump and will only pass through what the smallest restriction allows , for peak flow . If the carb is the restriction and you increase its size that will help . My example is the heads were the restriction - they had reached max flow and a bigger carb did not help power / flow . Yes a smaller carb can restrict flow and reduce power , as I noted with the hp950 I tried plus the back to back carb test on the dyno with new heads. But remember a smaller carb will often have a better signal and can help the short times ,responsiveness , but give up a bit in the top , this can only be seen on the track not dyno . That is why I start with an 1.40/42 venturi carb for performance use , maximum power .
JMO
Tex






4 speed street legal. Best time 10.99 @ 124 mph on 93 octane pump gas @ 3926# total weight
Re: Carb size question [Re: 68LAR] #1567058
01/24/14 03:31 AM
01/24/14 03:31 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
3
383man Offline
Too Many Posts
383man  Offline
Too Many Posts
3

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
You know because I kept thinking you ran a Dominator is why I was wondering how well it runs on the street. Dumb me. I guess because I would like to try a Dominator one day I just assumed you ran one. But I take it you like the carb alot that you are running now ? Ron

Last edited by 383man; 01/24/14 03:32 AM.
Re: Carb size question [Re: 383man] #1567059
01/24/14 10:50 AM
01/24/14 10:50 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,013
South Park, Pa.
68LAR Offline OP
master
68LAR  Offline OP
master

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,013
South Park, Pa.
Quote:

... know because I kept thinking you ran a Dominator is why I was wondering how well it runs on the street. Dumb me. I guess because I would like to try a Dominator one day I just assumed you ran one. But I take it you like the carb alot that you are running now ? Ron





I bought the carb used from a MOPARTS member several years ago. Someone had gone in and did some "funky" things to it and it wouldn't run for crap. I contacted Quick Fuel and got the OE specs on the carb and put it all back to "like new" condition. Then tuned on it to where it is now. To this point in time it has been the best carb I have ever owned. The AN boosters give a great signal that gives instantaneous throttle response.
I'm considering, or looking to change, the carb to a smaller one, or do something else to the tuneup, for the NTR race this summer. (Because I don't have a roll bar) I have to slow the car down to 11.50. I'm wanting to do something simple like putting a smaller carb on. We'll see where it leads?


4 speed street legal. Best time 10.99 @ 124 mph on 93 octane pump gas @ 3926# total weight
Re: Carb size question [Re: 68LAR] #1567060
01/24/14 09:14 PM
01/24/14 09:14 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319
Puyallup, WA
S
StealthWedge67 Offline
master
StealthWedge67  Offline
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S

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319
Puyallup, WA
I'd consider pulling timing out of it to get to where you need to be. Much simpler and less expensive way to achieve a specific performance benchmark / E.T. than investing in and learning the tuning curve of a new carb.


LemonWedge - Street heavy / Strip ready - 11.07 @ 120
Re: Carb size question [Re: StealthWedge67] #1567061
01/24/14 09:24 PM
01/24/14 09:24 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,013
South Park, Pa.
68LAR Offline OP
master
68LAR  Offline OP
master

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,013
South Park, Pa.
Quote:

I'd consider pulling timing out of it to get to where you need to be. Much simpler and less expensive way to achieve a specific performance benchmark / E.T. than investing in and learning the tuning curve of a new carb.





I hear ya, and will probably end up doing that, but I don't have to buy a new carb. I already have the smaller carb. I was using it before buying the Quick Fuel. With my set up, changing carbs take about 5 minutes. All hook-ups are the same on both carbs.


4 speed street legal. Best time 10.99 @ 124 mph on 93 octane pump gas @ 3926# total weight
Re: Carb size question [Re: 68LAR] #1567062
01/24/14 09:31 PM
01/24/14 09:31 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319
Puyallup, WA
S
StealthWedge67 Offline
master
StealthWedge67  Offline
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Posts: 4,319
Puyallup, WA
Great looking 'Runner by the way. I'd love to see more pics!


LemonWedge - Street heavy / Strip ready - 11.07 @ 120
Re: Carb size question [Re: 68LAR] #1567063
01/24/14 09:50 PM
01/24/14 09:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
3
383man Offline
Too Many Posts
383man  Offline
Too Many Posts
3

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
Quote:

Quote:

I'd consider pulling timing out of it to get to where you need to be. Much simpler and less expensive way to achieve a specific performance benchmark / E.T. than investing in and learning the tuning curve of a new carb.





I hear ya, and will probably end up doing that, but I don't have to buy a new carb. I already have the smaller carb. I was using it before buying the Quick Fuel. With my set up, changing carbs take about 5 minutes. All hook-ups are the same on both carbs.





Thats great as when you put the smaller carb back on then I can borrow your big carb. Just joking but one day I want to try a 1050 carb. Ron

Last edited by 383man; 01/24/14 09:51 PM.
Re: Carb size question [Re: 68LAR] #1567064
01/25/14 02:09 PM
01/25/14 02:09 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,208
New York
polyspheric Online content
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polyspheric  Online Content
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 4,208
New York
There is no "determined size".
The real question is "how much pressure differential do you want at WOT?"
Big carb = weak signal = difficult to tune, big power: 1" WOT vacuum.
Economy car = small carb = excellent response + good mileage: 3" WOT vacuum.
Very complex carbs such as Weber DCOE, Dell'Orto DHLA have good response and signal as low as .5".

Carb CFM is not a fixed number. A 750 only flows 750 is the engine demand produces the Holley test vacuum figure of 1.5 inches of mercury. If the engine produces more vacuum (2" etc.) carb flow increases, and vice versa.

Why does high WOT vacuum reduce power?
#1. pumping loss
#2. the VE is affected by the vacuum reading. No N/A engine has 0 vacuum, which means the maximum VE (absent wave/sonic tuning) is below 100%. Theoretical calculation is
((ATM - WOT loss) ÷ ATM)^.5


Boffin Emeritus
Re: Carb size question [Re: polyspheric] #1567065
01/25/14 03:06 PM
01/25/14 03:06 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,013
South Park, Pa.
68LAR Offline OP
master
68LAR  Offline OP
master

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 4,013
South Park, Pa.
Quote:

There is no "determined size".
The real question is "how much pressure differential do you want at WOT?"
Big carb = weak signal = difficult to tune, big power: 1" WOT vacuum.
Economy car = small carb = excellent response + good mileage: 3" WOT vacuum.
Very complex carbs such as Weber DCOE, Dell'Orto DHLA have good response and signal as low as .5".

Carb CFM is not a fixed number. A 750 only flows 750 is the engine demand produces the Holley test vacuum figure of 1.5 inches of mercury. If the engine produces more vacuum (2" etc.) carb flow increases, and vice versa.

Why does high WOT vacuum reduce power?
#1. pumping loss
#2. the VE is affected by the vacuum reading. No N/A engine has 0 vacuum, which means the maximum VE (absent wave/sonic tuning) is below 100%. Theoretical calculation is
((ATM - WOT loss) ÷ ATM)^.5






4 speed street legal. Best time 10.99 @ 124 mph on 93 octane pump gas @ 3926# total weight
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