Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Cam Degree Question #155804
11/24/08 12:22 PM
11/24/08 12:22 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 214
Hillsdale,Mi
69swinger340 Offline OP
enthusiast
69swinger340  Offline OP
enthusiast

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 214
Hillsdale,Mi
In my dart I have a 360 with flat top pistons, Edelbrok 63cc heads, ld340 and 650 double pumper. .528 MP solid lift cam. I installed the cam at 110 centerline, per the instructions that cam came with. However to get the 110 centerline I had to advance the cam about 6-7 degrees. The engine does not idle like a had expected. The idle is very tame, it does not have the big lopey idle that i expected. The stock 340 came in the T/A has a meaner idle than that of the dart. Could this be a cam degree issue?


*69 swinger 340 4spd *70 T/A 340+6pk 4spd
Re: Cam Degree Question [Re: 69swinger340] #155805
11/24/08 12:30 PM
11/24/08 12:30 PM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 11,543
chicagoland,usa
B
buildanother Offline
I Live Here
buildanother  Offline
I Live Here
B

Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 11,543
chicagoland,usa
You sure you did'nt mistakenly retard instead of advance?

Re: Cam Degree Question [Re: buildanother] #155806
11/24/08 01:42 PM
11/24/08 01:42 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 214
Hillsdale,Mi
69swinger340 Offline OP
enthusiast
69swinger340  Offline OP
enthusiast

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 214
Hillsdale,Mi
It has been several months back since I assembled the engine. I installed the cam straight up, then degreed it, it was at 103. Then I put in my offset keys and adjusted the offset on the timing chain. So yes i did retard the shaft 7 degrees. Moving the cam that much just to have it the required centerline at the time seemed excessive, and I checked and double checked the numbers and figured I would be OK.


*69 swinger 340 4spd *70 T/A 340+6pk 4spd
Re: Cam Degree Question [Re: 69swinger340] #155807
11/24/08 04:04 PM
11/24/08 04:04 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,916
usa
L
lewtot184 Offline
master
lewtot184  Offline
master
L

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,916
usa
does the crank gear have 3 keyways? if so maybe its in the wrong keyway, . the .528 isn't a hot cam but tightening the valve lash will give more duration.

Re: Cam Degree Question [Re: lewtot184] #155808
11/24/08 04:09 PM
11/24/08 04:09 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
R
RapidRobert Offline
Circle Track
RapidRobert  Offline
Circle Track
R

Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
did all the other(measured) specs, lift etc match what was on the cam card


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: Cam Degree Question [Re: lewtot184] #155809
11/24/08 04:52 PM
11/24/08 04:52 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 214
Hillsdale,Mi
69swinger340 Offline OP
enthusiast
69swinger340  Offline OP
enthusiast

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 214
Hillsdale,Mi
The crank sprocket does have 3 key ways -4,0,+4 I had to change the keyways in order change the centerline to 110. My valve lash is at .017

Also the specs did match the cam card.

Last edited by 69swinger340; 11/24/08 05:02 PM.

*69 swinger 340 4spd *70 T/A 340+6pk 4spd
Re: Cam Degree Question [Re: 69swinger340] #155810
11/24/08 05:08 PM
11/24/08 05:08 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,916
usa
L
lewtot184 Offline
master
lewtot184  Offline
master
L

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,916
usa
what were the installed specs?

Re: Cam Degree Question [Re: lewtot184] #155811
11/24/08 05:20 PM
11/24/08 05:20 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 214
Hillsdale,Mi
69swinger340 Offline OP
enthusiast
69swinger340  Offline OP
enthusiast

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 214
Hillsdale,Mi
.528/.528, 284 duration, 241 @50, 110 centerline


*69 swinger 340 4spd *70 T/A 340+6pk 4spd
Re: Cam Degree Question [Re: 69swinger340] #155812
11/25/08 01:24 AM
11/25/08 01:24 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 616
Sacramento, CA
K
Kirk_Ingram Offline
super street
Kirk_Ingram  Offline
super street
K

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 616
Sacramento, CA
Quote:

.528/.528, 284 duration, 241 @50, 110 centerline




Wow, many things to cover here!

First those sound like advertised install specs; what are your ACTUAL install specs?

You shouldn't have to change the crank gear location. There are offset keyways in the CAM gear end for that.(+/- degree's, I forget the pt.# but still available)

I'm VERY anxious to blame the MPP "cam cards" for your error, but I'll withhold that for now.
That cam should sound pretty agressive (i.e. lopey), especially in a SB.

And your lash is too tight for an initial install break-in. Even if 0.017" is COLD lash. Put wear on it for at least 500+ miles with it a bit loose. Heat cycles will help SET the necessary lash. (Heat cycles does NOT mean run it in your driveway ; you need to load the engine!)

Honestly, I think you botched your degree job.

I'm not bashing you, nor want to give a negative vibe, but maybe you should re-visit that cam install.

Good luck...


Death or Glory...it's just another story.
Re: Cam Degree Question [Re: Kirk_Ingram] #155813
11/25/08 01:44 AM
11/25/08 01:44 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,826
las vegas
70AARcuda Offline
master
70AARcuda  Offline
master

Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,826
las vegas
just a quick note..

make sure you are on the intake lobe and not the exhaust lobe...


Tony

70 AARCuda Vitamin C
71 Dart Swinger 360 10.318 @ 128.22(10-04-14 Bakersfield)
71 Demon 360 10.666 @122.41 (01-29-17 @ Las Vegas)
71 Duster 408 (10.29 @ 127.86 3/16/19 Las Vegas)
Re: Cam Degree Question [Re: 69swinger340] #155814
11/25/08 02:24 AM
11/25/08 02:24 AM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 132
Kingman, Az
Scojodak Offline
member
Scojodak  Offline
member

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 132
Kingman, Az
The LSA, (lobe separation angle) dictates whether or not you'll have a choppy idle. What is the LSA?

Last edited by ScojoDak; 11/25/08 02:27 AM.

Dakota for life!
Re: Cam Degree Question [Re: Scojodak] #155815
11/25/08 02:44 AM
11/25/08 02:44 AM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 12,271
Overpriced Housing Central
RobX4406 Offline
I Live Here
RobX4406  Offline
I Live Here

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 12,271
Overpriced Housing Central
This cam? P4120653

110 intake centerline
112 LSA

Re: Cam Degree Question [Re: 69swinger340] #155816
11/25/08 07:08 AM
11/25/08 07:08 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,311
Prospect, PA
BSB67 Offline
master
BSB67  Offline
master

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,311
Prospect, PA
That cam does not have much overlap and has a pretty mild sounding idle. Changinging the ICL wont change the overlap. Tighten the lash 0.004" will add some lope.

Re: Cam Degree Question [Re: BSB67] #155817
11/25/08 12:48 PM
11/25/08 12:48 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
M
moper Offline
I Live Here
moper  Offline
I Live Here
M

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
First, you had to advance the cam to reach 110 because MPs quality control is not really good. Not your mistake, and I commend you for degreeing it properly. Second, the .528 is a fairly mild solid. It has about the same duration as the hydraulic 484 cam, and after lash, not much more lift. So in a 360 (longer stroke) and with good static compression, it will idle like a stocker, or close. Nothing wrong with the cam at all other than the manufacturing quality.


Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
Re: Cam Degree Question [Re: RobX4406] #155818
11/25/08 01:07 PM
11/25/08 01:07 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 132
Kingman, Az
Scojodak Offline
member
Scojodak  Offline
member

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 132
Kingman, Az
Quote:

This cam? P4120653

110 intake centerline
112 LSA




That's why. You wont start hearing lope intil you get 110° or lower. I have a 112° cam in my 99 5.2 Magnum motor and its not choppy and it's vaccuum friendly for the PCM and brakes.


Dakota for life!
Re: Cam Degree Question [Re: Kirk_Ingram] #155819
11/25/08 02:00 PM
11/25/08 02:00 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 214
Hillsdale,Mi
69swinger340 Offline OP
enthusiast
69swinger340  Offline OP
enthusiast

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 214
Hillsdale,Mi
First off the came was installed at 110, and I had to use the different key way on the crank sprocket because I couldnt get enough adjustment out of the offset keys on the cam.

I intially set the lash to 028/032 for the break in and the first 200 miles, then I tightened them down to 017


*69 swinger 340 4spd *70 T/A 340+6pk 4spd
Re: Cam Degree Question [Re: moper] #155820
11/25/08 02:05 PM
11/25/08 02:05 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 214
Hillsdale,Mi
69swinger340 Offline OP
enthusiast
69swinger340  Offline OP
enthusiast

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 214
Hillsdale,Mi
Also, I know that the .528 is a mild cam, but I wasnt expecting it to be this calm


*69 swinger 340 4spd *70 T/A 340+6pk 4spd
Re: Cam Degree Question [Re: 69swinger340] #155821
11/25/08 04:28 PM
11/25/08 04:28 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,916
usa
L
lewtot184 Offline
master
lewtot184  Offline
master
L

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 3,916
usa
you don't state your compression ratio but low compression engines don't lope.

Re: Cam Degree Question [Re: lewtot184] #155822
11/25/08 04:56 PM
11/25/08 04:56 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 214
Hillsdale,Mi
69swinger340 Offline OP
enthusiast
69swinger340  Offline OP
enthusiast

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 214
Hillsdale,Mi
11:1


*69 swinger 340 4spd *70 T/A 340+6pk 4spd
Re: Cam Degree Question [Re: 69swinger340] #155823
11/25/08 09:41 PM
11/25/08 09:41 PM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 214
Hillsdale,Mi
69swinger340 Offline OP
enthusiast
69swinger340  Offline OP
enthusiast

Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 214
Hillsdale,Mi


*69 swinger 340 4spd *70 T/A 340+6pk 4spd






Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.1