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Re: New Gen Hemi ?
[Re: fishy340]
#1556760
12/31/13 12:16 PM
12/31/13 12:16 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
72Swinger
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master
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
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For all out power n/a a well built old engine, B1, w8-9, stage v etc can make better numbers. But if you're looking at pump gas and no maintenance hyd.roller power they rule. They're already heads available to support 1000hp easily, just need a 1/4" taller deck block IMO.
Mopar to the bone!!!
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Re: New Gen Hemi ?
[Re: WO23Coronet]
#1556763
12/31/13 06:37 PM
12/31/13 06:37 PM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776
Ontario Canada
MattW
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master
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776
Ontario Canada
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Quote:
The Gen III seems to be lacking a few things aftermarket wise to really let it shine. A taller deck block would be nice for a simpler stroker combo, with the factory block things get pretty tight over 400". The factory valve train can only handle so much lift(mid .600's I think) before it starts throwing a fit. You can get an aftermarket valve train but they're very expensive. Pretty impressive stuff for factory offerings though
How many W8 and W9 heads have won Engine Masters? Or even been contenders? Gen III HEMI's won it twice using FACTORY heads and block, pretty impressive IMO
The eagle heads can handle more lift. Longer valves. SDConcepts has a way of dealing with valve geometry. 
Now if we can get Fiat to make the hellcat block in iron and siamese that would be the last ingredient in a winning combination. Matt
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Re: New Gen Hemi ?
[Re: TheOtherDodge]
#1556764
12/31/13 08:42 PM
12/31/13 08:42 PM
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,112
LONG ISLAND
fishy340
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,112
LONG ISLAND
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Quote:
Keep in mind with the Gen III Hemi, we are talking about using a stock block and stock replacement heads that can make 700 hp N/A for half the cost of a W8/W9 motor.
These stock blocks can be found all over the place now.
I know of a stock block indy headed sb that makes that.The indy head is like ancient technology.
A w8/w9 is about 20g's depending on how hard you go.I think 10 grand and a new hemi wont get no where near 700hp jmo.
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Re: New Gen Hemi ?
[Re: WO23Coronet]
#1556765
12/31/13 08:45 PM
12/31/13 08:45 PM
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,112
LONG ISLAND
fishy340
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,112
LONG ISLAND
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Quote:
The Gen III seems to be lacking a few things aftermarket wise to really let it shine. A taller deck block would be nice for a simpler stroker combo, with the factory block things get pretty tight over 400". The factory valve train can only handle so much lift(mid .600's I think) before it starts throwing a fit. You can get an aftermarket valve train but they're very expensive. Pretty impressive stuff for factory offerings though
How many W8 and W9 heads have won Engine Masters? Or even been contenders? Gen III HEMI's won it twice using FACTORY
heads and block, pretty impressive IMO
How much would that engine master Bes hemi cost ?
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Re: New Gen Hemi ?
[Re: fishy340]
#1556766
12/31/13 09:00 PM
12/31/13 09:00 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,255
Canada
WO23Coronet
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,255
Canada
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Quote:
Quote:
The Gen III seems to be lacking a few things aftermarket wise to really let it shine. A taller deck block would be nice for a simpler stroker combo, with the factory block things get pretty tight over 400". The factory valve train can only handle so much lift(mid .600's I think) before it starts throwing a fit. You can get an aftermarket valve train but they're very expensive. Pretty impressive stuff for factory offerings though
How many W8 and W9 heads have won Engine Masters? Or even been contenders? Gen III HEMI's won it twice using FACTORY
heads and block, pretty impressive IMO
How much would that engine master Bes hemi cost ?
No idea, probably alot, point is the best Wwhatever head won't flow what a Gen III factory head will, take a look at the Thitek HEMI heads, they're even better.
A 700 HP stock block LA engine is a time bomb, not so with a Gen III.
The W head recipe for HP has been around along time and has proven results, for sure. The Gen III hasn't so it's alot more unknowns. I don't know if you head over to the LXForums much but that's the place to look for Gen III tech and capabilities, pose your same question over there and I guarantee you'll get plenty of answers (some hostile ones but still answers)
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Re: New Gen Hemi ?
[Re: fishy340]
#1556769
01/01/14 05:32 AM
01/01/14 05:32 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
Monte_Smith
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
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Quote:
I understand what you mean but its 2014 in a few hr's and i beleive these heads or new gen hemi stuff has been around since atleast 06. I guess i wanna see these things try and do what a w8 or w9 head can do power wise.
Brett Millers w8's will swing right past 1000hp,and thats from Tony @ BES own mouth.
Kinda funny to hear all these guys talk about 1000hp small blocks of ANY brand. Seems everybody has one......... I have been around this stuff a LONG time and I have yet to see those numbers, or even close on a legit dyno.
Also seen LOTS of 1000hp small blocks get their asses handed to them by 850hp ones as well.........just sayin........LOL!!! That's why we don't race dynos
Monte
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Re: New Gen Hemi ?
[Re: WO23Coronet]
#1556771
01/01/14 02:28 PM
01/01/14 02:28 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 833
MN
hemidup
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 833
MN
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Here's a E85 G3 Hemi that made peak 667hp @ 6500rpm and 570ft,lbs/tq @ 5500 rpm at the last dyno session. 436" with a tame 540ish/550ish .600" lift @ .050" with a 116+4 LSA. Factory Eagle heads with a pocket port job that flowed a tad over 370 cfm @ .600" and 10.0:1 compression. The engine was built for boost. Now lets say the compression was jacked to 12.5:1 and a real man's cam was installed and could make power past the peak 6500 rpm to say 7500? 
Jerry Williams.
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Re: New Gen Hemi ?
[Re: hemidup]
#1556772
01/01/14 02:47 PM
01/01/14 02:47 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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IF I were to pick up a 5.7, what are the piston sizes for a bore job on the stock sleeves(whats the max bore) and still be strong enough to live at say 7000 rpm on pump gas compression 
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Re: New Gen Hemi ?
[Re: fishy340]
#1556774
01/01/14 03:35 PM
01/01/14 03:35 PM
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,255
Canada
WO23Coronet
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 4,255
Canada
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Quote:
This is true Monte and i am fortunat to know of 3 and there all chevy pieces.My bud Flex,Butch Kemps built here by Jeremy went 8.11 & 14 @ 171 in a pretty heavy stang is here in ny again.And the other is kinda on the quit tip.:)
I thought you were comparng them to W engines? SB Chevy's are in a whole other league with the 50+ years of aftermarket behind them, just look at the 600" SB thread. I could be wrong but my guess is you're not going to make anywhere near 1000HP on a conventional SB Chevy (nothing wrong with that, look at my posts in the 600" SB thread)
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Re: New Gen Hemi ?
[Re: WO23Coronet]
#1556775
01/01/14 04:51 PM
01/01/14 04:51 PM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
Monte_Smith
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 6,890
North Alabama
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Am I saying you CAN'T make 1000hp with a smallblock, no not at all. But you won't make near that with run of the mill VERY good parts. In the realm of 400-450ish inch small blocks, to make near 1000hp will take some very exotic stuff. Mosez heads on an LS, maybe SBX heads on a conventional motor, possibly Victor Gliddens or Bennet billets on a Ford. As for a Mopar, I have NEVER seen a 1000hp wedge small block. Could you do it with the P-7s or something......I don't know, maybe. But regardless of brand, a REAL 1000hp small block is going to be a very exotic piece with killer heads, a 1" lift cam, tons of compression ,sheetmetal intake, two carbs, etc, etc.
In the more run of the mill motors, like 99% of your average guys are going to build, if you have one that makes 850, a LEGIT 850, it's a GOOD one.
I am sure many guys can produce 1000hp dyno sheets, but that's just a piece of paper, likely from a "happy" dyno. Show me the numbers on the track for the weight of the car and then we will talk power. Like I said, seen MANY an 850hp small block hand it to a supposed 1000hp small block.
But this not only applies to small blocks........seems everybody also has a 1200hp big block these days to. Seem to be so common, I guess you can pick one up at Target.......LOL!!!
Monte
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Re: New Gen Hemi ?
[Re: WO23Coronet]
#1556777
01/01/14 05:08 PM
01/01/14 05:08 PM
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Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,026
Trumbull,CT.
jim sciortino
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 2,026
Trumbull,CT.
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Quote:
How many W8 and W9 heads have won Engine Masters? Or even been contenders? Gen III HEMI's won it twice using FACTORY heads and block, pretty impressive IMO
How many W8s has BES built for Engine Masters competition???
Gen 3s are nice, but until a few more highend parts become available, a Gen 3 would have a hard time surpassing a W8 in an all out effort.......unless there is Gen 3 hardware out there capable of 1050+ N/A power that I haven't seen.
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Re: New Gen Hemi ?
[Re: scottb]
#1556778
01/01/14 05:10 PM
01/01/14 05:10 PM
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Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776
Ontario Canada
MattW
master
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master
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,776
Ontario Canada
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Quote:
I would like to see that eagle head on a good bench most eagle heads ive seen go around 335 to 340 and thats with a 2.10 valve that's cnc ported heads out of arringtons not blown up numbers .As for the bore the older blocks are thicker then the new ones the new ones your going to get a 20 over bore and still get a good ring package
I'll bump my post about the eagle on a 1020 with a 4.00 bore fixture. Matt
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