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SB Gear Drives and Timing #1553528 12/26/13 07:13 PM 12/26/13 07:13 PM
Joined: Oct 2004 Posts: 611 Muncie R Racebuddy OP mopar
Racebuddy OP mopar R Joined: Oct 2004 Posts: 611 Muncie	My Timing concern" My new E-85 418 W-2 motor will not start. Have had the engine shop install the Milodon gear drive and put my roller from 108 to 104 centerline. I have cam paper info lost in the house but its -- 609 lift 272/265 dur. Comp. I can't identify the exact spec on cam but it appears that the No. 1 intake valve is starting to open up at 45-46 degrees BTDC. Thats with the .028 lash. I see alot of roller cams opening from 42 to 48. My motor should run shouldn't it? My distributor is phased good and the crank trigger is working and putting out strong spark. Hasn't hit a lick, kicks starter out, coughs hard thru carb some. working the pick-up adjuster full range didn;t seem to help any either Ideas?? Last edited by Racebuddy; 12/26/13 07:30 PM.

Re: SB Gear Drives and Timing [Re: Racebuddy] #1553529 12/29/13 06:07 PM 12/29/13 06:07 PM
Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 5,746 Ontario, Canada Dodgem master
Dodgem master Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 5,746 Ontario, Canada	Well see where it gets to .050 lift at the lifter with 0 lash (or .075 at the valve with 1.5 rockers again 0 lash) should be 32 right now sounds like your reading the early ramp. You numbers would indicate say 300 degree at 0 loft so about it for a 272 @ .050 cam. My guess would be the dizzy is 180 out they are in phase 2 twice but only on compression once!

Re: SB Gear Drives and Timing [Re: Dodgem] #1553530 12/29/13 09:02 PM 12/29/13 09:02 PM
Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 4,330 Lynchburg, VA Leon441 master
Leon441 master Joined: Nov 2004 Posts: 4,330 Lynchburg, VA	Pull a plug. Hold finger over the hole and crank. If it blows your finger off the hole it should start. You sure the distributer is not 180 out. Sure sounds like it. Career best 8.02 @ 169 at 3050# and 10" tires small block power.

Re: SB Gear Drives and Timing [Re: Racebuddy] #1553531 12/29/13 09:12 PM 12/29/13 09:12 PM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY Master
MR_P_BODY Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	Quote: My Timing concern" My new E-85 418 W-2 motor will not start. Have had the engine shop install the Milodon gear drive and put my roller from 108 to 104 centerline. I have cam paper info lost in the house but its -- 609 lift 272/265 dur. Comp. I can't identify the exact spec on cam but it appears that the No. 1 intake valve is starting to open up at 45-46 degrees BTDC. Thats with the .028 lash. I see alot of roller cams opening from 42 to 48. My motor should run shouldn't it? My distributor is phased good and the crank trigger is working and putting out strong spark. Hasn't hit a lick, kicks starter out, coughs hard thru carb some. working the pick-up adjuster full range didn;t seem to help any either Ideas?? I dont know how cold it is in Muncie but E-85 doesnt like to fire up when its cold... plus I have to pump it a few times when its above 50* otherwise it will fart back through the carb(its lean)... but the valve opening is about right.. its easier for me to check it at the top of the lift with zero lash

Re: SB Gear Drives and Timing [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1553532 12/29/13 11:47 PM 12/29/13 11:47 PM
Joined: Oct 2004 Posts: 611 Muncie R Racebuddy OP mopar
Racebuddy OP mopar R Joined: Oct 2004 Posts: 611 Muncie	Thank you for the reply's Distributor is not 180 out. I have done all the usual things to prepare for the motor to run. It almost started once. It seems like the motor doesn't crank fast enough for it to fire. Very confusing, thinking about just throwing a chain on it just to see if that makes a difference.

Re: SB Gear Drives and Timing [Re: Racebuddy] #1553533 12/29/13 11:57 PM 12/29/13 11:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 13,247 Mt. Vernon, Ohio dartman366 I Live Here
dartman366 I Live Here Joined: Jan 2004 Posts: 13,247 Mt. Vernon, Ohio	Quote: It seems like the motor doesn't crank fast enough for it to fire. I think I would find the reason for this first. Light travels faster than the speed of sound,,,this is why some people seem bright untill you hear them speak.

Re: SB Gear Drives and Timing [Re: Racebuddy] #1553534 12/30/13 12:08 AM 12/30/13 12:08 AM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY Master
MR_P_BODY Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	Quote: Thank you for the reply's Distributor is not 180 out. I have done all the usual things to prepare for the motor to run. It almost started once. It seems like the motor doesn't crank fast enough for it to fire. Very confusing, thinking about just throwing a chain on it just to see if that makes a difference. I sure wouldnt do that... a chain or gear drive does the same thing... I run the gear drive on most of my engines and if you set the cam in right it wont matter what turns the cam... check your spec at the top of the lobe.. if its to what your spec is then look elsewhere ... but like I said.. E-85 is a bitxh to fire when its 50 or below... not real bad at 50 but it sure gets hard to lite at 45

Re: SB Gear Drives and Timing [Re: Racebuddy] #1553535 12/30/13 01:26 AM 12/30/13 01:26 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 543 Indiana, Just Off I-70 BradD mopar
BradD mopar Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 543 Indiana, Just Off I-70	It sounds like dizzy 180 off to me also. Make sure you have a good ground from chassis to block. Put a battery charger on boost while cranking to start. You want 10+ minimum volts while cranking. If using manual choke leave about 3/16" gap from blade to body.Too much gap = Lean and that = pop back through carb. Gas needs to be fresh, not sittting in tank for months. Brad Check out the Dorn's 69 Barracuda "Switchblade" in the Nov.2010 MCG Check out the Dorn's refurbished 36 Ford in the Feb.2011 Street Rodder

Re: SB Gear Drives and Timing [Re: Racebuddy] #1553536 12/30/13 01:34 AM 12/30/13 01:34 AM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY Master
MR_P_BODY Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	Quote: My Timing concern" My new E-85 418 W-2 motor will not start. Have had the engine shop install the Milodon gear drive and put my roller from 108 to 104 centerline. I have cam paper info lost in the house but its -- 609 lift 272/265 dur. Comp. I can't identify the exact spec on cam but it appears that the No. 1 intake valve is starting to open up at 45-46 degrees BTDC. Thats with the .028 lash. I see alot of roller cams opening from 42 to 48. My motor should run shouldn't it? My distributor is phased good and the crank trigger is working and putting out strong spark. Hasn't hit a lick, kicks starter out, coughs hard thru carb some. working the pick-up adjuster full range didn;t seem to help any either Ideas?? I would go back to square one... set the crank trigger up for 34* and the dist at #1... if you degreed the cam in then that part is right.... if need be start it on gas till you get it to run... at least gas will fire up.... pull a plug or two and see if they are wet Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 12/30/13 01:36 AM.

Re: SB Gear Drives and Timing [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1553537 12/30/13 04:53 PM 12/30/13 04:53 PM
Joined: Oct 2004 Posts: 611 Muncie R Racebuddy OP mopar
Racebuddy OP mopar R Joined: Oct 2004 Posts: 611 Muncie	Very little compression. Should have a ton of it on this 600 hp SB 2 batteries in trunk plus the battery charger full blast on it. volt meter drops to almost 8 when cranking. Going ahead and pulling front off of it. Super disappointed. Never had a new engine fail to start.

Re: SB Gear Drives and Timing [Re: Racebuddy] #1553538 12/30/13 06:35 PM 12/30/13 06:35 PM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY Master
MR_P_BODY Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	Quote: Very little compression. Should have a ton of it on this 600 hp SB 2 batteries in trunk plus the battery charger full blast on it. volt meter drops to almost 8 when cranking. Going ahead and pulling front off of it. Super disappointed. Never had a new engine fail to start. Try turning the engine with a torque wrench to see how much effort there is... I do this on my junk but I dont have the push rods in or the plugs... I usually get between 19# on thin rings and 27# on the 1/16 rings... but 27# is the highest I have had on my street junk... you could have multiple issues why its not starting... good luck in your quest

Re: SB Gear Drives and Timing [Re: Racebuddy] #1553539 12/30/13 07:09 PM 12/30/13 07:09 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,813 Blue Ridge, VA Plumb Wired master
Plumb Wired master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 2,813 Blue Ridge, VA	Quote: Very little compression. Should have a ton of it on this 600 hp SB 2 batteries in trunk plus the battery charger full blast on it. volt meter drops to almost 8 when cranking. Going ahead and pulling front off of it. Super disappointed. Never had a new engine fail to start. As mentioned earlier sounds like a poor ground issue, there should not be that great of a voltage drop. RIP Monte Smith aka: OutlawFish '98 Bickel Dodge Dakota PST

Re: SB Gear Drives and Timing [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1553540 12/30/13 07:20 PM 12/30/13 07:20 PM
Joined: Oct 2004 Posts: 611 Muncie R Racebuddy OP mopar
Racebuddy OP mopar R Joined: Oct 2004 Posts: 611 Muncie	OK sorry for the hassle. Took the front off and removed the plugs again. it has compression and it is substantial so that was a Lie I told you guys. compression blasts at about 50- 35 BTDC on the balancer. Can't get exact cause timing cover removed. Intake valve starts to open around 40 or so. The marks made on the three gears from the machine shop only line up once and when they do its seems to be out in left field. Calling my machinest and seeing if he will make a house call to look at it. I just can't get my mind around it. Thanks for help fellas

Re: SB Gear Drives and Timing [Re: Racebuddy] #1553541 12/30/13 07:31 PM 12/30/13 07:31 PM
Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI MR_P_BODY Master
MR_P_BODY Master Joined: Jun 2003 Posts: 52,972 Romeo MI	Quote: OK sorry for the hassle. Took the front off and removed the plugs again. it has compression and it is substantial so that was a Lie I told you guys. compression blasts at about 50- 35 BTDC on the balancer. Can't get exact cause timing cover removed. Intake valve starts to open around 40 or so. The marks made on the three gears from the machine shop only line up once and when they do its seems to be out in left field. Calling my machinest and seeing if he will make a house call to look at it. I just can't get my mind around it. Thanks for help fellas Bring the #1 intake up on total lift and see what the balancer says(put the cover on to get the reading)

Re: SB Gear Drives and Timing [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1553542 12/30/13 08:15 PM 12/30/13 08:15 PM
Joined: Oct 2004 Posts: 611 Muncie R Racebuddy OP mopar
Racebuddy OP mopar R Joined: Oct 2004 Posts: 611 Muncie	On compression stroke the intake valve is all the way open at 250, give or take a couple. very perplexed about when my marks align. thinking i could put a chain on it to ensure my timing is correct, then swapping the gear drive back on. I think my brain is turning into radioactive jelly

Re: SB Gear Drives and Timing [Re: dartman366] #1553543 12/30/13 11:56 PM 12/30/13 11:56 PM
Joined: Oct 2004 Posts: 611 Muncie R Racebuddy OP mopar
Racebuddy OP mopar R Joined: Oct 2004 Posts: 611 Muncie	Yes I am concerned about the voltage thing. Have battery cable neg grounded to chassis/rollbar post plate, 67 B Body . Going to run battery ground to motor now. have two ground straps front engine to body for additional groundage. On my timing... it seems to me, the motor has compression at No. 1 at the right timing mark. This is spot on No. one dist. cap post with my cap. Early on I had taken the dist. out and flipped it 180 two different times to see if I could get that to work. No Go. When my marks align on the three gears, the dist. button is pointing toward No. 3 and 6. I'm gonna take pics in morning and maybe a video of how it acts when starting. I don't know what the marks are telling me.

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