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a few questions about big block heads
#154632
11/21/08 10:05 PM
11/21/08 10:05 PM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 75
greeneville, tn
the nitro man
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greeneville, tn
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this is my first mopar & i'm at a loss. i've worked on sb chevy's for the last 15 years & come to know them well, but a bb mopar is differant. the heads pretty much suck. how are you to build a quench moter with no quench pad on the heads? i know a 915 & a few others will work, but like a 906, what can you do? i've seen the step head pistons the KB sells, but they look cheap & are heavy. can the 906 or any of the open chambered heads be milled enough to get a quench pad on the heads? i've also seen 440 source's heads. they look great, but with a 210cc intake runner i can't see any more power from them as you can get from a factory head. now i'm going to ask about a real turd. has anyone used the procomp big block mopar heads? i've seen a few that range from 265-295cc intake runners. they look good, but i know their reputation too. i've heard good & bad about the sb chevy & ford heads, but they seem to be getting better. their user reviews are better then they used to get. thanks everybody. 
Last edited by the nitro man; 11/21/08 10:24 PM.
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Re: a few questions about big block heads
[Re: lewtot184]
#154636
11/22/08 12:33 AM
11/22/08 12:33 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo
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Manitoba, Canada
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Quote:
i mean a flat top piston (no step) with a cylinder head with a quench pad. use a piston with a quench dome (step) for a open chamber (no quench pad) head.
 Will work either way. There have been many 500-550hp big block builds with ~210cc intake runner. If you feel you need more, edelbrock victor heads will have your large port. Indy also makes some large port heads as well. Probably others I'm not aware of, because for me that's overkill.
If you don't think a 440source or edelbrock rpm head will make any more hp than a stock head, you are dead wrong. Now port and install larger valves in a stock head and it'll make as much power as a source/eddy rpm head yes, but for the money you've dumped into stock iron heads, you could have almost just bought some aftermarket aluminum heads.
Some have milled open chamber heads far enough to make a quench pad out of them, but we're talking at least .10" worth of milling. That means you'll also have the mill the intake side of the heads a lot, plus likely need custom length pushrods by that point. Also I hear that much milling can make the stock heads crack prone.
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Re: a few questions about big block heads
[Re: DaytonaTurbo]
#154637
11/22/08 12:42 AM
11/22/08 12:42 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
383man
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I use the KB quench pad pistons in the 440 thats in my 63. I also use 906 open chamber heads. You have to measure every chamber and piston pad height and work them as my quench pads varied from .054 to .057 above the deck and the head chambers varied from .038 to .032. So I had to work them some to get all my cylinder's quench betwen .040 and .045. But it works good as I can run 92 pump and 38 total timing with no ping at all. I estimate my flywheel HP to be right around 500 by my 3700 lbs and my 1/4 mph. Ron
Last edited by 383man; 11/22/08 12:42 AM.
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Re: a few questions about big block heads
[Re: RobX4406]
#154639
11/22/08 01:52 AM
11/22/08 01:52 AM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383
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Marysville, O-H-I-O
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my OOTB eddy performer heads made 505 hp, 535 torque, and I'm only at .525 lift...they advertise that maximum airflow is at .600 lift, so I'm leaving some on the table with my cam selection.
the 440 source heads are almost identical to the eddy's performance and flow wise. they just look more like original heads, and cost less.
**Photobucket sucks**
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Re: a few questions about big block heads
[Re: RobX4406]
#154640
11/22/08 11:58 PM
11/22/08 11:58 PM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 75
greeneville, tn
the nitro man
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Quote:
What are you attempting to build.
A 440 source or Edelbrock head can and will make in excess of 600 hp on the right combo.
I haven't made up my mind yet on what to build. I'm thinking of a steel crank 400, or a 451, or just a good 440.
I have a 400 in my 65 belvedere, but don't know if they can run like I want. I would like to put it in the low 12's. by the time I cut a 440 crank to fit my block & buy pistons for a 451 I could just about stroke a 499ci motor. can a 400 run good? Are they good for torque, or do they like rpm's?
head wise, how can a stock type head make that kind (450-500) of power? 915 & 906 Mopar heads just do flow what a good stock small valved small block chevy head flows. I can see where the monstrous torque comes from but how can they feed a 6,000-6,500 rpm 500-550 HP 440?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not throwing off on Mopar's, I love Mopar's & always have. The chevy's I've done for the last 15 years is because their cheaper to build, & parts are easier to find. don't get me wrong I like chevy too, but Mopar is my first love. mopar big blocks are the best looking engines ever. they just look clean. .
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Re: a few questions about big block heads
[Re: the nitro man]
#154642
11/23/08 12:25 AM
11/23/08 12:25 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 21,318
Manitoba, Canada
DaytonaTurbo
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Manitoba, Canada
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Quote:
head wise, how can a stock type head make that kind (450-500) of power? 915 & 906 Mopar heads just do flow what a good stock small valved small block chevy head flows. I can see where the monstrous torque comes from but how can they feed a 6,000-6,500 rpm 500-550 HP 440?
Nobody here's making 500hp with stock UNPORTED heads. Take a set of stock heads, and invest the money into going with larger valves and some good quality port work and you will make them flow just as good as the eddy RPM/440source heads. You can make 500hp with those heads, because they flow decent OOTB.
Look at 383man, he's got a similar car to yours, and his 440 with ported, big valve 906's is running 11.5's in the 1/4.
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Re: a few questions about big block heads
[Re: 383man]
#154643
11/23/08 12:37 AM
11/23/08 12:37 AM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 75
greeneville, tn
the nitro man
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Quote:
Do 400's run good ?? Well my son has run 11.40' @ 117 with his stock stroke 400. It's a mild build with stock Eddy RPM heads and the MP .557 cam.
is he using a steel 383 crank, or did he use a cast 400 crank? does it make any botton end torque, or does it like higher rpm's?
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Re: a few questions about big block heads
[Re: the nitro man]
#154644
11/23/08 01:12 AM
11/23/08 01:12 AM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 12,271
Overpriced Housing Central
RobX4406
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Quote:
i've also seen 440 source's heads. they look great, but with a 210cc intake runner i can't see any more power from them as you can get from a factory head.
This was in your first post.
Ede's and stealths ARE NOT stock mopar iron heads.
If a port is 250cc and shaped poorly, it won't work as well as one 10-20% smaller with a great profile.
If you want closed chambered Iron heads you need the 67 heads.
http://www.moparts.org/Tech/Archive/bb/59.html
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Re: a few questions about big block heads
[Re: the nitro man]
#154645
11/23/08 02:36 AM
11/23/08 02:36 AM
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 5,161
CT
GTX MATT
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Quote:
Quote:
Do 400's run good ?? Well my son has run 11.40' @ 117 with his stock stroke 400. It's a mild build with stock Eddy RPM heads and the MP .557 cam.
is he using a steel 383 crank, or did he use a cast 400 crank? does it make any botton end torque, or does it like higher rpm's?
Nitroman a 400 is a REV motor, and when I say rev, i mean it will SCREAM. If you think your 350 Chevys liek to rev you need to tach up a 400 Chrysler because it has a shorter stroke and will still make more torque anyway.
A home port job on a set of 915/906s or 346/452s goes a long way. A 400 will tach up very nicely to 6500 or so with a decent cam and stock heads. In fact Dwayne Porter has made something like 460 hp with a stock displacement 383, stock 906 heads I beleive the ports were completely untouched, and a tad over 250 degrees of duration @ .050 and around 11:1 compression.
Big block Mopars just flat out run and theyre durable as could be. You dont need tons of head flow to make these things run high RPMs, theyre just big mills. Most 11 second 440s probably dont see much over 6000 rpm.
Now I need to pin those needles, got to feel that heat
Hear my motor screamin while I'm tearin up the street
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Re: a few questions about big block heads
[Re: GTX MATT]
#154647
11/23/08 01:52 PM
11/23/08 01:52 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 74,978
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
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U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
A home port job on a set of 915/906s or 346/452s goes a long way.
Only if you know what you are doing , if you don't it's REAL EASY to make them flow WORSE than untouched heads .
Quote:
In fact Dwayne Porter has made something like 460 hp with a stock displacement 383, stock 906 heads I beleive the ports were completely untouched, and a tad over 250 degrees of duration @ .050 and around 11:1 compression.
Once took off the stock intake and carb that 383 made 500 HP , propelled his heavy B body to LOW 11's ..
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Re: a few questions about big block heads
[Re: the nitro man]
#154648
11/23/08 02:22 PM
11/23/08 02:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,841
S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
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S.E. Michigan
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400 block with 440 crank, 451ci, RPM heads with backcut intake valves, and factory cnc ridge blended in. No port work. 11.24 @ 119.3mph in the signature car, more to come hopefully in springtime.
I guess what I'm trying to say is, 400s and Edelbrock heads seem to work halfway decent with the right complement of stuff (and my stuff is, at best, maybe 70% "right" 'cause it isn't a pure drag car).
Intake runner volume is small for the cubic inch on most B/RB engines. It's both a blessing and a curse depending on how you look at it, however I think my engine will live longer with max hp rpm at 6250rpm rather than 7500rpm.
For big runner volume....we have the Hemi....
Rich H.
Esse Quam Videri
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Re: a few questions about big block heads
[Re: JohnRR]
#154649
11/23/08 02:22 PM
11/23/08 02:22 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
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Kalispell Mt.
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Not to start a huge debate but the very high stock rod to stroke ratio of a 400 helps it make HP way past the peak so yes they can rev very good. The short R/S ratio on a SBC prohibits it from makeing much HP past the peak HP. Also the average SBC head will not flow 220 CFM, mabey some of the odd ball ones will come close OOTB but not your average head. Most all BBM heads from 67 on will do 220 easy. 220 is not huge but combine it with a exagerated high RS ratio and that is how they still make power at 6500. If you want to compare a odd SBC head to a BBM head you should compare them to a max wedge head to make it fair. BTW a small block mopar head flows as good as a BBM head. A stock magnum head can get 220 on most benches.
As for the whole quench thing, I am a huge proponent of useing it whenever possible, however it is not mandatory to make big HP so don't sweat it, quench won't kill your build. Personaly I would use the step dome KB pistons if I could not find 915 heads or afford aftermarket closed chamber heads.
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: a few questions about big block heads
[Re: the nitro man]
#154651
11/23/08 04:30 PM
11/23/08 04:30 PM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,101
Retired now in Tennessee
Chi_Town_Runner
super stock
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Retired now in Tennessee
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Check 440 source web page. A sponsor here. He has the 400/451 storker kit for affordable money. Cranks already been cut. Just drop in (after checking all spec's)
Good luck
Frank
Remember - 2 wrongs don't make a right - but 3 rights make a left!
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