Re: 69 H wheel color?
[Re: DoctorDiff]
#1544874
12/10/13 10:16 PM
12/10/13 10:16 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 15,134 Kelowna, B.C. Canada
DPelletier
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 15,134
Kelowna, B.C. Canada
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Quote:
I call the GM engine compartment satin black, which has more of a matte finish.
Semi gloss black is just a step under gloss black.
Cass, I'm not trying to with you but it's purely semantics at this point.
I believe that Mopar didn't flatten their paint (like GM did) for the majority of their parts (exceptions being dashes, organisol, etc.). Some parts appear "less glossy" than others due to poor materials, shoddy application techniques and time.
I agree that it is sometimes desireable when restoring a mopar to "cut the gloss" or use a bit of flattening agent to reproduce the low quality gloss black that mopar used in these applications...but to say the parts are or were semi-gloss is erroneous IMO.
As it was pointed out in the archived thread, the term "semi-gloss" could be used for something 25% down from full gloss or 70% down from full gloss....the 25% one might appear pretty close, but the 70% one certainly would not which is why I'd rather explain the correct finish as I did; low quality gloss black applied with no particular care as it was just to stop or slow down corrosion.
At the end of the day, there are probably a limited number of people trying to get the finish 100% correct; for the remaining enthusiasts, I'd rather see them use regular gloss black paint than some repro GM semi-gloss which (to me) looks totally wrong.
Dave
1970 Super Bee 440 Six Pack
1974 'Cuda
2008 Ram 3500 Diesel
2006 Ram 3500 Diesel
2004.5 Ram 2500 Diesel
2003 Ram 3500 Diesel
2006 Durango Limited
[url] http://1970superbee.piczo.com [/url]
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Re: 69 H wheel color?
[Re: 4406RAY]
#1544875
12/11/13 12:05 AM
12/11/13 12:05 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,830 Jefferson State
srt
ESYC
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ESYC
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,830
Jefferson State
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I wonder if they dip the wheels on their restorations It's good to hear this as I've suspected they were dipped based on many originals I've seen. As a side note the paint must have been suitable for use as a 'primer' for body colored paint. On an original body color painted wheel I have is a literal rainbow of mopar colors. It appears the hub opening of wheels were placed on a cone shaped fixture and then painted body color. The previous colors were not cleaned from the cone and thus the hub opening has a rainbow of colors glopped there.
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Re: 69 H wheel color?
[Re: DoctorDiff]
#1544878
12/11/13 01:56 PM
12/11/13 01:56 PM
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 15,134 Kelowna, B.C. Canada
DPelletier
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 15,134
Kelowna, B.C. Canada
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Quote:
I never said the factory used semi-gloss paint.
Regardless of what the paint was originally called, the appearance was not gloss black by today's standards.
In other words, if you ask a good shop to paint your wheels "gloss black", the result will be much shinier than the original finish.
....and if you ask them to paint them "semi-gloss" the result will be much less shiny than the original finish.
See what I mean? In any case, if you only had the choice of GM "semi-gloss" and regular gloss paint, the gloss would be far closer to original IMO. If you're more anal than that, then a small amount of flattening agent might get you even closer.
Dave
1970 Super Bee 440 Six Pack
1974 'Cuda
2008 Ram 3500 Diesel
2006 Ram 3500 Diesel
2004.5 Ram 2500 Diesel
2003 Ram 3500 Diesel
2006 Durango Limited
[url] http://1970superbee.piczo.com [/url]
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Re: 69 H wheel color?
[Re: RUNCHARGER]
#1544881
12/12/13 01:41 AM
12/12/13 01:41 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,518 Las Vegas, NV
6bblgt
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,518
Las Vegas, NV
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Quote:
I agree with the poorly applied gloss black but what I'd like to know is how they got it to stick so well and be so hardy? A lot of that paint is still stuck onto the parts much better than what we do now with modern primers, supercleaning the parts and sanding them for bite.
Sheldon
lead and/or other paint additives that are no longer used
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Re: 69 H wheel color?
[Re: 6bblgt]
#1544882
12/12/13 11:45 AM
12/12/13 11:45 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,830 Jefferson State
srt
ESYC
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ESYC
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,830
Jefferson State
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Quote:
Quote:
I agree with the poorly applied gloss black but what I'd like to know is how they got it to stick so well and be so hardy? A lot of that paint is still stuck onto the parts much better than what we do now with modern primers, supercleaning the parts and sanding them for bite.
Sheldon
lead and/or other paint additives that are no longer used
Perhaps, but more likely a chemical etch prior to dipping Maybe someone up north had a relative that worked at one of the plants?
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Re: 69 H wheel color?
[Re: srt]
#1544883
12/12/13 01:13 PM
12/12/13 01:13 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,636 Nashville, TN
MOPARMIKE69
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,636
Nashville, TN
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Ever strip an original wheel? Nothing but black paint. Bare metal dipped in heavy cheap black enamel. Here is the back side of an original spare. Basic black with body color sprayed on the front side. You can see the blue in the slots. We way over anal-ize these parts. Cheap and fast was the rule of the day when these cars were built.
69 Road Runner vert 69 GTX hard top 70 Road Runner 4 speed 70 Hemi Cuda vert
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Re: 69 H wheel color?
[Re: MOPARMIKE69]
#1544886
12/12/13 03:31 PM
12/12/13 03:31 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,526 N.E. OHIO, USA
A12
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,526
N.E. OHIO, USA
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Quote:
Ever strip an original wheel? Nothing but black paint. Bare metal dipped in heavy cheap black enamel. Here is the back side of an original spare. Basic black with body color sprayed on the front side. You can see the blue in the slots. We way over anal-ize these parts. Cheap and fast was the rule of the day when these cars were built.
Are there ever any runs or drips like on some other things that are dipped (i.e., torsion bars, etc.)?
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Re: 69 H wheel color?
[Re: A12]
#1544887
12/12/13 03:59 PM
12/12/13 03:59 PM
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 18,880 -
RSNOMO
Moparts Torchbearer
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Moparts Torchbearer
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 18,880
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Quote:
Are there ever any runs or drips like on some other things that are dipped (i.e., torsion bars, etc.)?
Torsion bars???
Yes...
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Re: 69 H wheel color?
[Re: RSNOMO]
#1544888
12/12/13 04:27 PM
12/12/13 04:27 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,526 N.E. OHIO, USA
A12
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,526
N.E. OHIO, USA
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Quote:
Quote:
Are there ever any runs or drips like on some other things that are dipped (i.e., torsion bars, etc.)?
Torsion bars???
Yes...
Torsion was my example of a dipped part that has drips and runs......do the wheels have them?
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Re: 69 H wheel color?
[Re: A12]
#1544890
12/12/13 08:50 PM
12/12/13 08:50 PM
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Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 18,880 -
RSNOMO
Moparts Torchbearer
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Moparts Torchbearer
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 18,880
-
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Quote:
do the wheels have them?
Personally, my belief is that flawless paint on ANY component of these cars is a stretch from OEM...
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Re: 69 H wheel color?
[Re: DPelletier]
#1544892
12/13/13 08:36 PM
12/13/13 08:36 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,526 N.E. OHIO, USA
A12
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 21,526
N.E. OHIO, USA
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
do the wheels have them?
Personally, my belief is that flawless paint on ANY component of these cars is a stretch from OEM...
You've got that right; my 'Cuda had all original paint everywhere and perfect was nowhere to be seen!
Dave
My question was really to do with "does a dipped component have any indication of the process used to cover it with paint?"
If I brush painted an item someone could sure tell, if I used a paint roller someone could sure tell, when I look at a torsion bar I can see the drip marks still there and know it was coated with paint by dipping it.................so how is anyone sure of the process of how black steel wheels are done and if the car is to get body matching color how is that done, by dipping too? (I know they are not because the backs are not body color) Anyone have any manufacturing photos of how the wheels were done back then..if not then where is the evidence (drips, runs, errors,) that indicates they were dipped?
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Re: 69 H wheel color?
[Re: Stewpar]
#1544893
12/13/13 08:44 PM
12/13/13 08:44 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439 Val-haul-ass... eventually
BradH
Taking time off to work on my car
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Taking time off to work on my car
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 15,439
Val-haul-ass... eventually
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Quote:
I sure hope end of the world decisions don't come down to a debate over percentage of gloss.............
You ain't been around the A12 restoration guys much, have ya'?
Darn, I sure miss mine...
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