11 Inch versus 10.5 in Flywheel Question
#154176
11/20/08 08:04 PM
11/20/08 08:04 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,179
Walton, Indiana
TimS
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Walton, Indiana
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Tried to install an 11inch flywheel from my 68 383HP motor onto a 70 440 motor tonight and found that the flywheel would not fit. Bolt pattern wise as it attaches to the crank the 2 motors are the same. The only thing keeping this flywheel from going on is the OD of the crank end. The 440 motor has a .025 larger od so the center hole
in the flywheel appears under size for that motor. I would think the differences in the 10.5 to 11in wheel would,be more than just that center hole ID if this 440 needs the 10.5. Can anyone shed some light on this? Thanks.
1968 Barracuda Fastback 318-2BBL 904 2.76 Frost Blue Survivor
1970 Roadrunner 440+6 BBL 727 AT 4.10 SG Dana Blue Fire Metallic
1971 Cuda 340-4 BBL 4spd 3.91 SG Curious Yellow
1972 Barracuda 318-2 BBL 904 AT 3.23 1 Legger Tor Red/White Vinyl Top
2007 Dodge Ram 1500 5.7 Hemi AT Patriot Blue
2011 Dodge Challenger RT 5.7 Hemi 6spd 392 SG Triple Black
2014 Dodge Charger RT Max AWD 5.7 Hemi AT 305 Billet Silver
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Re: 11 Inch versus 10.5 in Flywheel Question
[Re: TimS]
#154177
11/20/08 08:07 PM
11/20/08 08:07 PM
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Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 21,345
Marysville, O-H-I-O
70Cuda383
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Marysville, O-H-I-O
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.025 isn't a hole lot of difference, and bigger is better since the crank or flywheel doesn't actually turn the transmission...the clutch disc does that when the pressure plate clamps down against the disc. will the input shaft from the transmission fit through the 383 flywheel? it should, they are the same transmissions. I wouldn't worry about it.
you do have the pilot bushing in the crank, right? and this is a 440 crank that's been drilled for a manual trans (again, with the pilot bushing/bearing installed)?
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Re: 11 Inch versus 10.5 in Flywheel Question
[Re: 70Cuda383]
#154178
11/20/08 08:51 PM
11/20/08 08:51 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,179
Walton, Indiana
TimS
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I do have the pilot bushing in the crank. My problem is that the 11 inch flywheel won't quite fit on that 440 crank so I can snug it up. The center of the crank where the flywheel center hole fits is too large. By about .025. I have been tempted to grind on that to reduce the size but it just seems strange that I would even have to do that. Its the original flywheel off the 68 Super Bee 383HP motor. In previous conversations on the board it appeared these would be interchangable.
1968 Barracuda Fastback 318-2BBL 904 2.76 Frost Blue Survivor
1970 Roadrunner 440+6 BBL 727 AT 4.10 SG Dana Blue Fire Metallic
1971 Cuda 340-4 BBL 4spd 3.91 SG Curious Yellow
1972 Barracuda 318-2 BBL 904 AT 3.23 1 Legger Tor Red/White Vinyl Top
2007 Dodge Ram 1500 5.7 Hemi AT Patriot Blue
2011 Dodge Challenger RT 5.7 Hemi 6spd 392 SG Triple Black
2014 Dodge Charger RT Max AWD 5.7 Hemi AT 305 Billet Silver
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Re: 11 Inch versus 10.5 in Flywheel Question
[Re: TimS]
#154179
11/20/08 10:56 PM
11/20/08 10:56 PM
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Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,552
Rittman Ohio
fourgearsavoy
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 10,552
Rittman Ohio
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If you have a stock crank then something is wrong.How do you know that it's .025 ? That seems like alot of difference between two cranks.Is it a stock flywheel? Gus 
64 Plymouth Savoy
493 Indy EZ's by Nick at Compu-Flow
5-Speed Richmond faceplate Liberty box
Dana 60
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Re: 11 Inch versus 10.5 in Flywheel Question
[Re: fourgearsavoy]
#154180
11/21/08 03:29 AM
11/21/08 03:29 AM
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,101
Retired now in Tennessee
Chi_Town_Runner
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,101
Retired now in Tennessee
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I agree with the above posts. 11" flywheel is interchangeable to a 383/440 crank provided the crank is stock and not aftermarket. Something is not right! Frank
Remember - 2 wrongs don't make a right - but 3 rights make a left!
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Re: 11 Inch versus 10.5 in Flywheel Question
[Re: tecmopar]
#154182
11/21/08 06:57 AM
11/21/08 06:57 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,179
Walton, Indiana
TimS
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Flywheel is the stock unit from the 383 HP motor out of my 68 Bee. I've measured both cranks with calipers after thoroughly cleaning and deburring the center OD were measured. That center on both is not perfectly round, about .008 difference in both as you measure the circumfrance. Some other tidbits to consider I guess would be I did get this 440 motor from my 78 truck which originally came with a 440 but along the line something happened to the block I guess and a 70 F440 stamped block was in place when I bought the truck. Cast 7/21/69. Newer cast crank in that?? Would the flywheel still fit anyway?? Whats my liability of taking that center down .020 to get it to fit?? I notice the orig motor with the orig flywheel does not have a real tight fit at that point and alignment appears to be with the bolts themselves. Does anyone know if the 10.5 flywheel bolt pattern is the same as the 11??
1968 Barracuda Fastback 318-2BBL 904 2.76 Frost Blue Survivor
1970 Roadrunner 440+6 BBL 727 AT 4.10 SG Dana Blue Fire Metallic
1971 Cuda 340-4 BBL 4spd 3.91 SG Curious Yellow
1972 Barracuda 318-2 BBL 904 AT 3.23 1 Legger Tor Red/White Vinyl Top
2007 Dodge Ram 1500 5.7 Hemi AT Patriot Blue
2011 Dodge Challenger RT 5.7 Hemi 6spd 392 SG Triple Black
2014 Dodge Charger RT Max AWD 5.7 Hemi AT 305 Billet Silver
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Re: 11 Inch versus 10.5 in Flywheel Question
[Re: TimS]
#154183
11/21/08 07:53 AM
11/21/08 07:53 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,567
Ky
jt4406
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,567
Ky
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Bolt patterns are the same, but it sounds as though you may have a cast crank in the engine. You may wind up with a balance/vibration issue if it is and you use a neutral balanced flywheel on it. Seems I remember reading here on the board that engines intended for manual transmission applications always got the steel crank. I believe you will need to roll it over, mark everything, remove the crank and have it machined to fit the flywheel. Then balance the flywheel to the crank, although you may need to know piston/rod/rings/bearings weight to pull that off. Just my  Jess in ky
Last edited by jt4406; 11/21/08 05:41 PM.
Yeah, it's hopped up to over 160...
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Re: 11 Inch versus 10.5 in Flywheel Question
[Re: TimS]
#154184
11/21/08 05:36 PM
11/21/08 05:36 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,785
Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
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Rio Linda, CA
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The register on the crank flange should all be the same since the flywheel and the flexplate need to be a universal fit.
The center hole in a flexplate measures 2.160".
The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
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Re: 11 Inch versus 10.5 in Flywheel Question
[Re: John_Kunkel]
#154185
11/21/08 07:37 PM
11/21/08 07:37 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,179
Walton, Indiana
TimS
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Interesting. Your flex plate would fit my 383 motor at 2.16 but would not fit the 440. That crank flange is about 2.19. I remeasured tonight after work and I initailly stated the two were different by .025. Its more like .030. I called Brewers Performance today and they tell me the same thing. That flywheel should absoultely fit the 440. Is it possible that on the assy line the motor was first done for a 4spd car due to the sleeve being present in the flange hole and then chnaged because of the out of spec size on the flange? Much easier to modify a flex plate than a flywheel. Brewers can sell me a stock flywheel and open that flange opening in it to 2.195 so it will fit my 440 and not have balance issues. Thinking about going that route.
1968 Barracuda Fastback 318-2BBL 904 2.76 Frost Blue Survivor
1970 Roadrunner 440+6 BBL 727 AT 4.10 SG Dana Blue Fire Metallic
1971 Cuda 340-4 BBL 4spd 3.91 SG Curious Yellow
1972 Barracuda 318-2 BBL 904 AT 3.23 1 Legger Tor Red/White Vinyl Top
2007 Dodge Ram 1500 5.7 Hemi AT Patriot Blue
2011 Dodge Challenger RT 5.7 Hemi 6spd 392 SG Triple Black
2014 Dodge Charger RT Max AWD 5.7 Hemi AT 305 Billet Silver
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Re: 11 Inch versus 10.5 in Flywheel Question
[Re: TimS]
#154186
11/22/08 04:11 PM
11/22/08 04:11 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,785
Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
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Rio Linda, CA
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I can't picture the factory turning out a crank in other than the standard size since both the flywheel and flexplate are the same size.
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Re: 11 Inch versus 10.5 in Flywheel Question
[Re: TimS]
#154187
11/22/08 06:17 PM
11/22/08 06:17 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,004
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
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I Win
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Quote:
Interesting. Your flex plate would fit my 383 motor at 2.16 but would not fit the 440. That crank flange is about 2.19. I remeasured tonight after work and I initailly stated the two were different by .025. Its more like .030. I called Brewers Performance today and they tell me the same thing. That flywheel should absoultely fit the 440. Is it possible that on the assy line the motor was first done for a 4spd car due to the sleeve being present in the flange hole and then chnaged because of the out of spec size on the flange? Much easier to modify a flex plate than a flywheel. Brewers can sell me a stock flywheel and open that flange opening in it to 2.195 so it will fit my 440 and not have balance issues. Thinking about going that route.
the part that you are measuring that is oversize is not what is not turned in a stick vs. auto situation , its the pilot bearing hole , something is not right , do you have another flywheel or flex plate to see if that one really is screwed up ?
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Re: 11 Inch versus 10.5 in Flywheel Question
[Re: JohnRR]
#154188
11/22/08 07:34 PM
11/22/08 07:34 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,179
Walton, Indiana
TimS
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The pilot bushing hole is in the center of the flange that I am measuring. The pilot bushing hole measures the same on the 440 as does the 383. I forget exactly what that was but I do know they matched.I have tried another BB and even a small block flex plate and it is too small on the 440 flange also. They all fit the 383 flange as the guy at Brewers said they would, small or BB should fit. The only part I have that fits that 440 is the flex plate that came off it. The only way my present flywheeel or any other flex plate will fit is to open them up from about 2.16 (the measuremnet of both the center holes on the BB and SB plates) to 2.19 to fit this flange. The flange doesn't appear to have had anything done to it out of the ordinary. Its fairly round, with a slight taper toward the flat of the flange, as the 383.
1968 Barracuda Fastback 318-2BBL 904 2.76 Frost Blue Survivor
1970 Roadrunner 440+6 BBL 727 AT 4.10 SG Dana Blue Fire Metallic
1971 Cuda 340-4 BBL 4spd 3.91 SG Curious Yellow
1972 Barracuda 318-2 BBL 904 AT 3.23 1 Legger Tor Red/White Vinyl Top
2007 Dodge Ram 1500 5.7 Hemi AT Patriot Blue
2011 Dodge Challenger RT 5.7 Hemi 6spd 392 SG Triple Black
2014 Dodge Charger RT Max AWD 5.7 Hemi AT 305 Billet Silver
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Re: 11 Inch versus 10.5 in Flywheel Question
[Re: TimS]
#154189
11/22/08 09:07 PM
11/22/08 09:07 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
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U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
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U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
The pilot bushing hole is in the center of the flange that I am measuring. The pilot bushing hole measures the same on the 440 as does the 383. I forget exactly what that was but I do know they matched.I have tried another BB and even a small block flex plate and it is too small on the 440 flange also. They all fit the 383 flange as the guy at Brewers said they would, small or BB should fit. The only part I have that fits that 440 is the flex plate that came off it. The only way my present flywheeel or any other flex plate will fit is to open them up from about 2.16 (the measuremnet of both the center holes on the BB and SB plates) to 2.19 to fit this flange. The flange doesn't appear to have had anything done to it out of the ordinary. Its fairly round, with a slight taper toward the flat of the flange, as the 383.
Tim then you definitely have an oddball , something that slipped thru and instead of the engine being taken apart and fixed the factory modified a flexplate to fit .
At this point the only solution is to get a flywheel modified to fit or buy that flywheel from brewer , I would not mickey mouse it with a hand grinder , the flywheel is located by that ring , NOT by the bolts .
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Re: 11 Inch versus 10.5 in Flywheel Question
[Re: JohnRR]
#154190
11/23/08 07:16 AM
11/23/08 07:16 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 2,179
Walton, Indiana
TimS
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John: That was Brewers Performance asessment on this as well. Yes thats my plan to do a modification on a flywheel. I'm a little bit concerned about how much play is in the original that came off the 383. When installed you can move it up and down and hear it clicking against the flange, there is so much play in that. My understanding is that this should snug fit. Like you mentioned it locates the flywheel to the crank flange, not the bolts. With that in mind, I'm going to have a machine shop I work with daily at my job to chuck that flywheel up and get the hole out to 2.19 from its present 2.16 and use that on the 440. They can get that exactly centered. Then get another flywheel for my 383 when I get ready to put that original motor back in the car after rebuilding. Probably a new one from Brewers. They were allot of help with this so I plan to send my business their way later. Trying to be driving that 68 Super Bee before Christmas. Its been a constant year and a half project thats still ongoing.
1968 Barracuda Fastback 318-2BBL 904 2.76 Frost Blue Survivor
1970 Roadrunner 440+6 BBL 727 AT 4.10 SG Dana Blue Fire Metallic
1971 Cuda 340-4 BBL 4spd 3.91 SG Curious Yellow
1972 Barracuda 318-2 BBL 904 AT 3.23 1 Legger Tor Red/White Vinyl Top
2007 Dodge Ram 1500 5.7 Hemi AT Patriot Blue
2011 Dodge Challenger RT 5.7 Hemi 6spd 392 SG Triple Black
2014 Dodge Charger RT Max AWD 5.7 Hemi AT 305 Billet Silver
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