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Re: 440 Stroker Compression
[Re: monoptn]
#153527
11/19/08 08:53 PM
11/19/08 08:53 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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achieving .035-.040 quench is critical for being to run a higher CR on any given octane of gas & this is hard to accomplish with open chambered heads such as the 452's. Quench or no quench may mean the difference in being able to run as much as 1 full point of CR higher on the same fuel. more squeeze is more power. My suggestion if you have not made a purchase yet would be to get a set of stealth alum heads & they are on sale for $899. just have your competent machine shop check the valve job/guide clearance & locks/retainers on them. If you dont have quench you are for sure leaving power on the table that could be had.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: 440 Stroker Compression
[Re: monoptn]
#153531
11/20/08 10:52 AM
11/20/08 10:52 AM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
RapidRobert
Circle Track
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Circle Track
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,040
Lincoln Nebraska
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I reread your post & a set of 915 BB heads would look stock & give you quench if you used the correct pistons/head gaskets. They are a bit pricey & may run you $300 or so for a set of stock used ones.
live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
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Re: 440 Stroker Compression
[Re: RapidRobert]
#153532
11/20/08 07:37 PM
11/20/08 07:37 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,019
Eau Claire, WI
ResQ911
super gas
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super gas
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,019
Eau Claire, WI
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I agree with your ditching the 452's and getting a set of the stealth heads. The cost to get your stock heads done will get you at least halfway to the aluminums which will allow you to use pump gas anywhere and get 10:1 or 10.5:1 compession. Here is what I did: My Steath 440Source Stroker Build
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Re: 440 Stroker Compression
[Re: BSB67]
#153535
11/20/08 08:03 PM
11/20/08 08:03 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 27,347
Today? Who Knows?
1_WILD_RT
Management Trainee
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Management Trainee
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 27,347
Today? Who Knows?
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Quote:
I thought about putting on my 178 intake and AFB just to see how it would run.
I presume that if you want to run FAST you'll have to run iron heads. I don't know if they check head casting numbers.
To get that stock like idle, the cam will need to be fairly short on duration, and with that, the earlier recommendation of 9 to 9.5 CR is probably the max in my opinion. Good cam choice and proper installation will help scrub some cranking cylinder pressure. Call Dwayne Porter to help with the cam.
My understanding of FAST is it has to appear stock, not sound stock...A quench motor with some camshaft should have no trouble at 10.3-10.5... 
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Re: 440 Stroker Compression
[Re: 1_WILD_RT]
#153536
11/20/08 08:33 PM
11/20/08 08:33 PM
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Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,313
Prospect, PA
BSB67
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,313
Prospect, PA
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Quote:
Quote:
I thought about putting on my 178 intake and AFB just to see how it would run.
I presume that if you want to run FAST you'll have to run iron heads. I don't know if they check head casting numbers.
To get that stock like idle, the cam will need to be fairly short on duration, and with that, the earlier recommendation of 9 to 9.5 CR is probably the max in my opinion. Good cam choice and proper installation will help scrub some cranking cylinder pressure. Call Dwayne Porter to help with the cam.
My understanding of FAST is it has to appear stock, not sound stock...A quench motor with some camshaft should have no trouble at 10.3-10.5...
From the rules:
Quote:
2.00 ENGINE
2.03 Cylinder Heads and Intake Manifold MUST be correct* OEM casting, have correct* original casting numbers and be of correct* original material.
This may very well be the most important and teched F.A.S.T. rule.
Note: Any cylinder head or intake manifold that is not the correct* casting number, must be approved and published on the F.A.S.T. website.
Casting date codes are not looked at and are not part of the tech process.
6.00 CAMSHAFT
6.01 Camshaft must produce a correct* stock sound at idle. We all know what a STOCK cam sounds like! Factory cam specs will be taken into consideration when determining the correct* idle sound.
Example: An Olds W30 or a Mopar Max Wedge car had large cams from the factory. They will not be expected to idle as smoothly as a 1973 400. Camshaft lopiness and smoothness will be teched with the engine operating at idle RPM and from the exhaust outlets. Upgrade to solid flat tappet or roller cam OK. Mechanical sounds from the valve train are not a tech item.
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Re: 440 Stroker Compression
[Re: rusthole]
#153539
11/21/08 11:25 AM
11/21/08 11:25 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
moper
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 12,675
Columbia, CT
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The idle quality is subjective. VERY subjective (opinion and consensus). IMO, I would totally ignore quench and squish. Because of the increased stroke, you will need to keep the dynamic compression down to 8.2:1. Because dynamic compression is dependant on rod length (which is .006" shrter than stock using 440Source's rod) and intake closing point of the cam, you have to have the cam picked first to maximize your effort. An "off the shelf" cam is not going to be the ticket due to the restrictive intake, samll carb, and mildly restrictive exhaust manifolds. Dwayne Porter and Scott Brown have some experience in fitting good power from stock stuff and sounding good enough to convince the judges. I dont think building any longer stroke than 3.9915 makes sense when stuck using stock casting parts and any type of limit on the budget. But that's just my opinion.
Well, art is art, isn't it? Still, on the other hand, water is water! And east is east and west is west and if you take cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like prunes than rhubarb does. Now, uh... Now you tell me what you know.
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Re: 440 Stroker Compression
[Re: RapidRobert]
#153540
11/21/08 12:40 PM
11/21/08 12:40 PM
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Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,871
Ontario, Canada
Stanton
Don't question me!
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Don't question me!
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 8,871
Ontario, Canada
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Quote:
achieving .035-.040 quench is critical
This has me curious. Given a .040 head gasket thickness this means there has to be zero deck height. Correct ??
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Re: 440 Stroker Compression
[Re: JohnRR]
#153542
11/21/08 01:03 PM
11/21/08 01:03 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,844
S.E. Michigan
ZIPPY
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 17,844
S.E. Michigan
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Get either the repro iron MW heads or iron Stage V heads, grind the casting numbers off and braze/weld/epoxy the correct casting number on, and voila. Stage V's look just like a 452 head on the outside and I'm about 90% sure the repro Max Wedge head is the same way. It's not the rules, it's the INTERPRETATION of the rules, and if anyone thinks that hasn't ever been done, and casting numbers have never been changed....well....  The rules say the head has to have the correct casting number. The rules do not say the heads have to BE that casting number, or have started life as that casting number. So as long as they "have" the number I have to assume the above procedure would be legal or at least overlooked.
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Re: 440 Stroker Compression
[Re: ZIPPY]
#153543
11/21/08 01:17 PM
11/21/08 01:17 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,004
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,004
U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
The rules say the head has to have the correct casting number. The rules do not say the heads have to BE that casting number, or have started life as that casting number. So as long as they "have" the number I have to assume the above procedure would be legal or at least overlooked.
sssssssssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
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