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440 Fires up - BUT will not idle. SOLVED - Thanks #1530453 11/09/13 10:28 AM 11/09/13 10:28 AM
Joined: Dec 2008 Posts: 1,336 Massachusetts, USA MASSMOPAR OP pro stock
MASSMOPAR OP pro stock Joined: Dec 2008 Posts: 1,336 Massachusetts, USA	Took a running recently rebuilt E440 Steel Crank engine, We then rebuilt the top end. New Holley Six pack New Edlebrock intake New E-Street alum heads New MOPAR .509 Cam New lifters, push rods timing chain, gaskets etc. New MSD Electronic ignition Starts up and runs now - BUT races up then down, up and down, then won't idle STALLS when let off the throttle. Any thoughts? 7917470-DSC_0717.JPG (248 downloads) 70 Road Runner 528 HEMI 4sp FY1 70 Road Runner 440+6 V-Code AG 4spd EV2 69 R/T 4 Spd Dana 3:54 AG Vert B5 69 R/T 4 Spd Dana 3:54 AG X9 V1X V8R-WORKING 69 R/T Auto/Console 8.75 SG Vert R/T B3 08 Challenger 1st Edition Hemi Orange 69 Super Bee 4 Spd 8.75 SG AG F8

Re: 440 Fires up - runs nice @ high RPM BUT will not idle. [Re: MASSMOPAR] #1530454 11/09/13 10:35 AM 11/09/13 10:35 AM
Joined: Jul 2008 Posts: 30,460 Florida STAYcation dOOc The village idiot's idiot
dOOc The village idiot's idiot Joined: Jul 2008 Posts: 30,460 Florida STAYcation	Big time vacuum leak ?

Re: 440 Fires up - runs nice @ high RPM BUT will not idle. [Re: dOOc] #1530455 11/09/13 10:39 AM 11/09/13 10:39 AM
Joined: Dec 2008 Posts: 1,336 Massachusetts, USA MASSMOPAR OP pro stock
MASSMOPAR OP pro stock Joined: Dec 2008 Posts: 1,336 Massachusetts, USA	Quote: Big time vacuum leak ? YUP -- We think it may be the center carb is defective. 70 Road Runner 528 HEMI 4sp FY1 70 Road Runner 440+6 V-Code AG 4spd EV2 69 R/T 4 Spd Dana 3:54 AG Vert B5 69 R/T 4 Spd Dana 3:54 AG X9 V1X V8R-WORKING 69 R/T Auto/Console 8.75 SG Vert R/T B3 08 Challenger 1st Edition Hemi Orange 69 Super Bee 4 Spd 8.75 SG AG F8

Re: 440 Fires up - runs nice @ high RPM BUT will not idle. [Re: MASSMOPAR] #1530456 11/09/13 11:28 AM 11/09/13 11:28 AM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska R RapidRobert Circle Track
RapidRobert Circle Track R Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska	Quote: Took a running recently rebuilt E440 Steel Crank engine, We then rebuilt the top end. Starts up and runs now - BUT races up then down, up and down, then won't idle STALLS when let off the throttle. Any thoughts? It ran OK before the rebuild & was it a 6pak before the rebuild or was that added as part of the rebuild and are you saying that the speed will change up down on its own & when it does go up it goes up higher than normal?. #2 since from what I gather (on here) all 3 carbs contribute to the idle I'd take out all of the idle mixture screws & shoot a 2 second blast of starting fluid or brake kleen into the ports. #1 Might be a slight vac leak at the valley pan which the up/down RPM would suggest if that is what is happening. #3/#4 I would check rotor phasing and the reluctor gap & note that the vac in hg amount changes both of those so with a hand held vac pump pump it up with eng off & measure what you see but neither of those last 2 would make the idle jump up & down but likely could be it if it was just a dieing at idle issue. Holler how it goes live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

Re: 440 Fires up - runs nice @ high RPM BUT will not idle. [Re: RapidRobert] #1530457 11/09/13 11:44 AM 11/09/13 11:44 AM
Joined: Dec 2008 Posts: 1,336 Massachusetts, USA MASSMOPAR OP pro stock
MASSMOPAR OP pro stock Joined: Dec 2008 Posts: 1,336 Massachusetts, USA	Quote: Quote: Took a running recently rebuilt E440 Steel Crank engine, We then rebuilt the top end. Starts up and runs now - BUT races up then down, up and down, then won't idle STALLS when let off the throttle. Any thoughts? It ran OK before the rebuild & was it a 6pak before the rebuild or was that added as part of the rebuild and are you saying that the speed will change up down on its own & when it does go up it goes up higher than normal?. #2 since from what I gather (on here) all 3 carbs contribute to the idle I'd take out all of the idle mixture screws & shoot a 2 second blast of starting fluid or brake kleen into the ports. #1 Might be a slight vac leak at the valley pan which the up/down RPM would suggest if that is what is happening. #3/#4 I would check rotor phasing and the reluctor gap & note that the vac in hg amount changes both of those so with a hand held vac pump pump it up with eng off & measure what you see but neither of those last 2 would make the idle jump up & down but likely could be it if it was just a dieing at idle issue. Holler how it goes Yes - Added the NEW six pack and other NEW top end components as listed above. Was 4 bbl Yes - while manually throttling up(so as not to stall) the RPM rises and falls on its own. Cannot stabilize. 70 Road Runner 528 HEMI 4sp FY1 70 Road Runner 440+6 V-Code AG 4spd EV2 69 R/T 4 Spd Dana 3:54 AG Vert B5 69 R/T 4 Spd Dana 3:54 AG X9 V1X V8R-WORKING 69 R/T Auto/Console 8.75 SG Vert R/T B3 08 Challenger 1st Edition Hemi Orange 69 Super Bee 4 Spd 8.75 SG AG F8

Re: 440 Fires up - runs nice @ high RPM BUT will not idle. [Re: MASSMOPAR] #1530458 11/09/13 11:54 AM 11/09/13 11:54 AM
Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska R RapidRobert Circle Track
RapidRobert Circle Track R Joined: Nov 2003 Posts: 36,041 Lincoln Nebraska	Just me I think I'd pull the intake bolts & get a rough check on the port alignment via the bolt hole alignment & assuming that is in the ballpark then pull the intake & use some Permatex #2 around the 8 port openings on the valley pan (both sides), a light/EVEN coat & if that does not take care of it then go to work on the carbs live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth

Re: 440 Fires up - runs nice @ high RPM BUT will not idle. [Re: RapidRobert] #1530459 11/09/13 03:13 PM 11/09/13 03:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,791 Big Sky Country M MO_PA top fuel
MO_PA top fuel M Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 1,791 Big Sky Country	6pack needs more timing than a 4BBL...and I agree on vacuum leak

Re: 440 Fires up - runs nice @ high RPM BUT will not idle. [Re: MO_PA] #1530460 11/09/13 05:49 PM 11/09/13 05:49 PM
Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 2,537 PORT ALBERNI , BC., CANADA superwrench master
superwrench master Joined: Oct 2003 Posts: 2,537 PORT ALBERNI , BC., CANADA	Quote: 6pack needs more timing than a 4BBL...and I agree on vacuum leak ....Especially with that cam. And I agree that there is a good possibility the intake has a vacuum leak. I had the .509 in my Challenger with the 6 pack. It had worse idle issues than the 270* @ .050 race cam in there now!!!

Re: 440 Fires up - runs nice @ high RPM BUT will not idle. [Re: superwrench] #1530461 11/09/13 05:56 PM 11/09/13 05:56 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,976 Chilliwack B.C. Canada R RUNCHARGER I Live Here
RUNCHARGER I Live Here R Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 15,976 Chilliwack B.C. Canada	Change your advance curve in the distributor. Sheldon

Re: 440 Fires up - runs nice @ high RPM BUT will not idle. [Re: RUNCHARGER] #1530462 11/09/13 06:02 PM 11/09/13 06:02 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 12,291 Kent, Wa 340SHORTY Truck Nut
340SHORTY Truck Nut Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 12,291 Kent, Wa	IMO you made a bad choice on cam. The .509 doesnt make much vacume that a 6 pac needs to operate properly let alone the power brakes if you have them.. I am truckless..

Re: 440 Fires up - runs nice @ high RPM BUT will not idle. [Re: MASSMOPAR] #1530463 11/09/13 09:34 PM 11/09/13 09:34 PM
Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,318 Prospect, PA BSB67 master
BSB67 master Joined: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,318 Prospect, PA	If the rpm wonders at idle, it is likely a vacuum leak. And it could be between the intake and head. Plus what everyone else said about cam and timing Last edited by BSB67; 11/10/13 09:40 AM.

Re: 440 Fires up - runs nice @ high RPM BUT will not idle. [Re: BSB67] #1530464 11/09/13 11:39 PM 11/09/13 11:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 24,562 Brookeville, Md Mr.Yuck Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck Not enough dumb comments...yet Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 24,562 Brookeville, Md	509 is not a very good cam for vaccum carb(s) that said try spraying some water or carb cleaner all around the intake. double check all your vac lines... I had a bad ballast once, drove me nuts, car would run fine above 1300rpm try anything lower and it would shut off, not enough juice to the coil... [IMG]http://i66.tinypic.com/pui5j.jpg[/IMG] Coming soon!!!!

Re: 440 Fires up - runs nice @ high RPM BUT will not idle. [Re: Mr.Yuck] #1530465 11/09/13 11:59 PM 11/09/13 11:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,826 las vegas 70AARcuda master
70AARcuda master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,826 las vegas	Check your initial timing not total timing...you want as much as initial timing as the engine can take before kicking back on the starter... msd distributor..what bushing do you have in it? someone is selling 10 degree bushing in the for sale section... and the engine vacuum has no bearing on the end carbs opening..as they opened based on the center carb...not the engine... Last edited by 70AARcuda; 11/10/13 12:05 AM. Tony 70 AARCuda Vitamin C 71 Dart Swinger 360 10.318 @ 128.22(10-04-14 Bakersfield) 71 Demon 360 10.666 @122.41 (01-29-17 @ Las Vegas) 71 Duster 408 (10.29 @ 127.86 3/16/19 Las Vegas)

Re: 440 Fires up - runs nice @ high RPM BUT will not idle. [Re: 70AARcuda] #1530466 11/10/13 01:30 AM 11/10/13 01:30 AM
Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 3,957 West Coast, CA T Troy master
Troy master T Joined: Dec 2003 Posts: 3,957 West Coast, CA	Disconnect the vacuum advance and plug it. Adjust the timing again and see how it does. ....there is nothing like driving my 1968 Hemi Dart around town and having people looking at you like you're nuts!!

Re: 440 Fires up - runs nice @ high RPM BUT will not idle. [Re: Troy] #1530467 11/10/13 01:41 AM 11/10/13 01:41 AM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 12,291 Kent, Wa 340SHORTY Truck Nut
340SHORTY Truck Nut Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 12,291 Kent, Wa	""and the engine vacuum has no bearing on the end carbs opening..as they opened based on the center carb...not the engine..."" sooo your saying the center carb makes the vacume ?? I believe you are wrong.. I am truckless..

Re: 440 Fires up - runs nice @ high RPM BUT will not idle. [Re: 340SHORTY] #1530468 11/10/13 01:49 AM 11/10/13 01:49 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,826 las vegas 70AARcuda master
70AARcuda master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,826 las vegas	Quote: ""and the engine vacuum has no bearing on the end carbs opening..as they opened based on the center carb...not the engine..."" sooo your saying the center carb makes the vacume ?? I believe you are wrong.. the vacuum lines on a 6 pac on the rear carbs..are hooked up to the center carb...the vacuum created by the center carb opens the rear carbs....just like a 4 barrel vacuum carb... sorry not wrong...you are wrong... Last edited by 70AARcuda; 11/10/13 01:50 AM. Tony 70 AARCuda Vitamin C 71 Dart Swinger 360 10.318 @ 128.22(10-04-14 Bakersfield) 71 Demon 360 10.666 @122.41 (01-29-17 @ Las Vegas) 71 Duster 408 (10.29 @ 127.86 3/16/19 Las Vegas)

Re: 440 Fires up - runs nice @ high RPM BUT will not idle. [Re: 70AARcuda] #1530469 11/10/13 01:57 AM 11/10/13 01:57 AM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 12,291 Kent, Wa 340SHORTY Truck Nut
340SHORTY Truck Nut Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 12,291 Kent, Wa	what creates the vacuum in the center carb?? I am truckless..

Re: 440 Fires up - runs nice @ high RPM BUT will not idle. [Re: 70AARcuda] #1530470 11/10/13 12:54 PM 11/10/13 12:54 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 24,562 Brookeville, Md Mr.Yuck Not enough dumb comments...yet
Mr.Yuck Not enough dumb comments...yet Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 24,562 Brookeville, Md	"and the engine vacuum has no bearing on the end carbs opening..as they opened based on the center carb...not the engine..." perhaps, as the linkage has to be "open" for the blades to open, but if you say have a 6.5 PV and the vac drops to 3-4 it's not going to run right. I tuned my 6-pack out of the box like this... unhooked the outboards, turn the mixture screws all the way in then back out 1 turn, turn the idle screw up to about 2200, unhooked vac advance, fired the motor, let it warm up set advance to 38* in at 2200, brought the idle back down to 900 or so, set mixture screws for best vac reading, hooked up the outboards and went for a blast. However if you have a vacuum leak, that's not going to work.

Re: 440 Fires up - runs nice @ high RPM BUT will not idle. [Re: 340SHORTY] #1530471 11/10/13 05:20 PM 11/10/13 05:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,826 las vegas 70AARcuda master
70AARcuda master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,826 las vegas	Quote: what creates the vacuum in the center carb?? air going inside the carb...as the Venturi air velocity increases.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FFfBZ3qgv0 listen a 4:40 into video..and learn something today. the rear carbs would the same way....has nothing to do with power valve or manifold vacuum. the conversation is about opening of rear carb...setting up the center carb for idle is done just like a regular 4 barrel...adjust idle for highest vacuum.... Last edited by 70AARcuda; 11/10/13 05:23 PM. Tony 70 AARCuda Vitamin C 71 Dart Swinger 360 10.318 @ 128.22(10-04-14 Bakersfield) 71 Demon 360 10.666 @122.41 (01-29-17 @ Las Vegas) 71 Duster 408 (10.29 @ 127.86 3/16/19 Las Vegas)

Re: 440 Fires up - runs nice @ high RPM BUT will not idle. [Re: 70AARcuda] #1530472 11/10/13 05:34 PM 11/10/13 05:34 PM
Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,468 Answering the call of the wild T ThermoQuad top fuel
ThermoQuad top fuel T Joined: Aug 2003 Posts: 2,468 Answering the call of the wild	Attention all those whom have posted trying to help...did you direct the OP to the six pak tuning guide, with the recommendation to read it and then apply it...or did you provide haphazard guesses to fixing the problem? Just wondering...

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