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431 stroker is still leaking oil....help #1526946
11/01/13 02:26 PM
11/01/13 02:26 PM
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Hermiston Oregon
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mopar_leaner Offline OP
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ok, here is the deal, I built a 431(440 source kit and stealth heads) for a guy and I used the flat top pistons and stealth heads with minimal decking(only to clean and make flat), and a lunati cam .226/.234@.050 dur. by .494/.513 lift, RPM intake/thunder series AVS 800 carb, HV oil pump, deep oil pan, windage tray with felpro gaskets.
when I first fired it up, lots of oil leaks, pulled the engine and replace the cam plug, 2/3 of oil leak gone. Next, I pulled the oil pump and cut 1 coil out of the pressure relief spring, and replaced the gasket...still has 80psi, no change. And replaced both valve cover gaskets from rubber to cork, even better, now only leaking from the rear of the engine. Pulled the engine again, replaced rear main seal, and both pan gaskets using Mopar black ATV, new oil 10-30w (broke it in on 20-50w VR1)also redid the oil galley plugs with new teflon tape. Ran it for 15 minutes in the driveway car facing up towards the garage, and after about 10 minute it started leaking from rear of the engine, but very little (like the size of a silver dollar after 15 minutes).



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Re: 431 stroker is still leaking oil....help [Re: mopar_leaner] #1526947
11/01/13 02:35 PM
11/01/13 02:35 PM
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Graham, WA
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Polarapete Offline
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80 psi oil pressure at what RPM? I would expect that at 8,000 rpm! 25 or 30 psi at a fast idle is more than enough, IMHO


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Re: 431 stroker is still leaking oil....help [Re: Polarapete] #1526948
11/01/13 02:38 PM
11/01/13 02:38 PM
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Hermiston Oregon
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mopar_leaner Offline OP
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cold start up and warm about 70psi, a buddy of mine who races bb mopars says 80 is fine, 120 isn't. I had 80 in my 600hp 446 with eddys with no problems.


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Re: 431 stroker is still leaking oil....help [Re: mopar_leaner] #1526949
11/01/13 06:25 PM
11/01/13 06:25 PM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Online content
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I'd pull the eng & do the rear seal again & get that taken care of. I know it's a pain but it unfortunately has to be done again because you will never be happy with the drip & it likely will get worse. 80 is slightly too high & unnecessarily wears the intergear etc tho it ain't a dealbreaker being a bit too high but with the easy access of the BB spring I'd shorten it some more. 8-10 psi per 1000 rpm is plenty. I'd be wondering more about the rest of the oiling mods


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: 431 stroker is still leaking oil....help [Re: RapidRobert] #1526950
11/01/13 07:29 PM
11/01/13 07:29 PM
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MYRTLE BEACH SOUTH CAROLINA
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ek3 Offline
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may be that your pan is not fitting good . could be bent or warped . check the fit all the way around . check the rear seal flange areas and the seal areas on the block/cap . without knowing what windage tray is in use , can't rule out it causing a pan/ fittment issue . my opinion on oil pressure is that 65-70 psi cold is the most you need unless you are seriously racing the car and, that's if you have really tight clearances . using 20-50wt, 35lbs @ 1200rpm hot and 55-65 @5,000 rpm is ideal. more pressure will only over stress the oil pump drive, add extra heat to the oil and can keep the system on bypass ,which will not filter the oil. also, most higher output oiling systems have restrictions to keep some oil in the pan at higher rpms. if the engine is new and really tight on bearing clearances , you may need to use a thinner synthetic race oil with an additive as it will flow better when cold ,and, better deal with heat as well. cutting the spring is the opposite to matching the oil viscosity.

Re: 431 stroker is still leaking oil....help [Re: mopar_leaner] #1526951
11/01/13 08:37 PM
11/01/13 08:37 PM
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New Hampshire, USA
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oldiron Offline
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Do you have main studs or bolts? Sometimes the seal retainer rests against the rear main nuts and doesn't allow it to seat fully. If so, then clearance w/grinder.
Chased that one for a while


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Re: 431 stroker is still leaking oil....help [Re: oldiron] #1526952
11/01/13 08:42 PM
11/01/13 08:42 PM
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Hermiston Oregon
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mopar_leaner Offline OP
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bolts on the rear mains and its a 440 source deep pan, but used stock windage tray. I spoke with 440 source today and they recommend taking the aluminum saddle and milling .010 from the bottom where it mates to the block, and backing the pressure down.


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Re: 431 stroker is still leaking oil....help [Re: ek3] #1526953
11/01/13 09:07 PM
11/01/13 09:07 PM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Online content
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Good stuff what eK3 said, get the viscosity right first then mod the spring as needed


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: 431 stroker is still leaking oil....help [Re: RapidRobert] #1526954
11/02/13 12:39 AM
11/02/13 12:39 AM
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Mi,U.S.A.
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mike s Offline
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Valve cover gaskets.....Moroso (rubber over steel) I will not waste any more time with cork or rubber.

Rear main seal. Source crank has no knurling on the seal area.Cut the retainer.Use the double lip Viton seal or a rope seal.Black seals are not as pliable as they used to be (Mopar and Fel-pro). Don't forget to seal them on the back side.Offsetting them will also help but I have sealed them either way. Use the side sticks from Hemi-Haynes or stock ones if you can find them.Seal the back of the retainer where the sticks are after everything is set. Do not use the silicone to replace the sticks.


Leave the gun.......take the Cannoli's....Mike
Re: 431 stroker is still leaking oil....help [Re: RapidRobert] #1526955
11/02/13 04:33 AM
11/02/13 04:33 AM
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Tacoma, Washington USA
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Quote:

Good stuff what eK3 said, get the viscosity right first then mod the spring as needed




Robert, check your email

Re: 431 stroker is still leaking oil....help [Re: Adam71Charger] #1526956
11/02/13 12:22 PM
11/02/13 12:22 PM
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Hermiston Oregon
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mopar_leaner Offline OP
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I did go from 20-50 to 10-30 and now oil pressure is 80 cold and 60 warm at an idle.


( it takes a Mopar, to beat a Mopar!
email me at moparleaner@gmail.com )
Re: 431 stroker is still leaking oil....help [Re: mopar_leaner] #1526957
11/02/13 02:58 PM
11/02/13 02:58 PM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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There is some addit'l info regarding straight weight vs multi viscosity oils to be perused (I ain't up on it but someone will chime in & help you) but you're headed in a good direction


live every 24 hour block of time like it's your last day on earth
Re: 431 stroker is still leaking oil....help [Re: RapidRobert] #1526958
11/02/13 05:19 PM
11/02/13 05:19 PM
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Hermiston Oregon
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mopar_leaner Offline OP
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I am going to try a different seal retainer and have it milled 0.010 at the base, better gaskets, maybe the felpro race rear main seal, a new windage tray and a stock oil pump. I will clean everything with brake cleaner, lift the rear of the crankshaft up a little to make sure its very clean, dry and oil free. And I will use mopar ATV silicone.


( it takes a Mopar, to beat a Mopar!
email me at moparleaner@gmail.com )
Re: 431 stroker is still leaking oil....help [Re: mopar_leaner] #1526959
11/03/13 02:14 AM
11/03/13 02:14 AM
Joined: Jun 2012
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MYRTLE BEACH SOUTH CAROLINA
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ek3 Offline
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Quote:

I did go from 20-50 to 10-30 and now oil pressure is 80 cold and 60 warm at an idle.


if you have tight clearances you could run 5-20 full syn.or use the adj. spring and set the pressure as stated. the newer engines today use the tight clearances to provide long service life [hence the use of 0 weight full syn. oils] also, silicone is a second choice to this http://www.permatex.com/products-2/produ...er-82194-detail you will love the fact that it is more ridged and will stay put. I always use brake clean to de-grease the surfaces and air dry before use. this is just my thoughts...

Re: 431 stroker is still leaking oil....help [Re: ek3] #1526960
11/03/13 04:28 AM
11/03/13 04:28 AM
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SE PA
Yellow Fever Offline
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SE PA
How about Mancini's rear main seal retainer??

http://chucker54.stores.yahoo.net/bilrearmains.html

Re: 431 stroker is still leaking oil....help [Re: mopar_leaner] #1526961
11/03/13 07:43 AM
11/03/13 07:43 AM
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MICHIGAN
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Quote:

I am going to try a different seal retainer and have it milled 0.010 at the base, better gaskets, maybe the felpro race rear main seal, a new windage tray and a stock oil pump. I will clean everything with brake cleaner, lift the rear of the crankshaft up a little to make sure its very clean, dry and oil free. And I will use mopar ATV silicone.




I use a billet retainer on my last 3 motors.
$69.95
MRE223
Cheap insurance when you consider all the extra work because the old wore stock unit leaks.
oil leaks suck!


1957 Power wagon wm300 original 10.000 mile truck, 1964 dodge Polara Convertible numbers matching
Re: 431 stroker is still leaking oil....help [Re: mopar_leaner] #1526962
11/03/13 09:09 AM
11/03/13 09:09 AM
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U.S.S.A.
JohnRR Offline
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Do not use synthetic oil on a fresh build, if the motor was not specifically built to run on synthetic you are going to have ring seal issues.

If you have oil leak issue with regular oil it's going to be worse with synthetic.







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