400 Stroker Build Suggestions
#1521295
10/22/13 10:16 AM
10/22/13 10:16 AM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,445 Missouri
68KillerBee
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,445
Missouri
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So I'm planning on doing a stroker motor for my super bee over the winter. Here are the for sure things: Stealth heads, 383 rpm intake and holley 750. Should I go with the Muscle Motors or 440source kits? I have a line on a 1973 400 block (have to see if it's ever been bored out though). My car has manual steering/brakes and a 4 speed with 3.55's in the rearend right now. 295/50-15's are the rear tire size. Down the line (next year) I will get an 18 spline hemi box and a dana(with probably the same gear ratio ~3.54). I drive my car a lot and have only taken it to the strip a few times (best run of only a 14.5 w/ my low compression motor). Must have decent street manors and get at least 20 mpg (jk about the mpgs ) It has stock hp manifolds on it, but I will probably get rid of those in favor of some headers. The prices on the two kits are comparable, obviously a lot of people talk down on the 440source stuff but it is what it is. I mounted my heads on right out of the box and had no problems with it. Muscle motors search on here shows mixed opinions. This is my first performance engine build so any input is welcome! thanks -devin
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Re: 400 Stroker Build Suggestions
[Re: dogdays]
#1521297
10/22/13 02:23 PM
10/22/13 02:23 PM
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Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 5,160 Texas
dannysbee
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 5,160
Texas
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1. Set a performance goal 2. Find a shop that does precision machine work 3. Have any kits that you do buy checked 4. Work with a pro when selecting your cam. Someone that is familiar with mopars. 5. Keep compression 9.5-10 with cast iron 10-10.5 aluminum heads 6. Keep quench around .040
Getting old just means you were smarter than some and luckier than others.
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Re: 400 Stroker Build Suggestions
[Re: dannysbee]
#1521299
10/22/13 11:40 PM
10/22/13 11:40 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,445 Missouri
68KillerBee
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,445
Missouri
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Quote:
1. Set a performance goal 2. Find a shop that does precision machine work 3. Have any kits that you do buy checked 4. Work with a pro when selecting your cam. Someone that is familiar with mopars. 5. Keep compression 9.5-10 with cast iron 10-10.5 aluminum heads 6. Keep quench around .040
I want to run mid to low 12's. I will likely have to switch up gear ratio and tire size though?? I have a good machine shop to double check whatever I end up getting, along with doing my machine work.
The cam is another thing that I need to know about.
Thanks
I went to performance only website and there is pretty much nothing on there. I need to be able to read all the info on what all is in the kits.
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Re: 400 Stroker Build Suggestions
[Re: 68KillerBee]
#1521300
10/23/13 12:17 AM
10/23/13 12:17 AM
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Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,303 Bend,OR USA
Cab_Burge
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 43,303
Bend,OR USA
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Quote:
So I'm planning on doing a stroker motor for my super bee over the winter. Here are the for sure things: Stealth heads, 383 rpm intake and holley 750. Should I go with the Muscle Motors or 440source kits? I have a line on a 1973 400 block (have to see if it's ever been bored out though). My car has manual steering/brakes and a 4 speed with 3.55's in the rearend right now. 295/50-15's are the rear tire size. Down the line (next year) I will get an 18 spline hemi box and a dana(with probably the same gear ratio ~3.54). I drive my car a lot and have only taken it to the strip a few times (best run of only a 14.5 w/ my low compression motor). Must have decent street manors and get at least 20 mpg (jk about the mpgs ) It has stock hp manifolds on it, but I will probably get rid of those in favor of some headers.
The prices on the two kits are comparable, obviously a lot of people talk down on the 440source stuff but it is what it is. I mounted my heads on right out of the box and had no problems with it. Muscle motors search on here shows mixed opinions. This is my first performance engine build so any input is welcome! thanks -devin
I'm sure there are more than one C.I. strokers kits avaible for the low deck 400 blocks, 452 C.I., 470 C.I., 496 and 505 to 512 C.I. depending on the bore and stroker sizes on all of them , how big do you want to go to now? I like the 4.25 stroke kits n the 400 blocks . I have built and driven several of them(4.25 stroke 400 blocks, 505 to 512 C.I.) in the last ten years, the increase in C.I. from a 383 to a 451 should amaze you , the 512 will absolutely shock the beejesues out of you On the four speed car I would buy another set of wheels that match the current ones you have on the rear and put a god set of bias ply street legal DOT drag tires on them for the days you want to be shoved way back in the seat when you nail the throttle to the floor instead of going sideways in a cloud of smoke from the radials I've had both types of the same tires on my 727 automatic Duster with a pump gas 512 low deck, it would flat boil the 315x60x15 M/T ET Street radials on the street, not so on the same size(13.50x30x15) ET Street Bias ply tires The radials where faster on a good track, not so on the streets I drive on around here. The bias plys might spin a 1/4 to 2 full turns on the hit and then hook and stay hooked, the radials would not recover once they started to spin in any gear, I would have to let off to keep from going sidewasy into the other lane with the radials on the back The four speed will be much worst on the street than my 727 was
Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
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Re: 400 Stroker Build Suggestions
[Re: dogdays]
#1521304
10/23/13 04:59 PM
10/23/13 04:59 PM
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Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319 Puyallup, WA
StealthWedge67
master
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master
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,319
Puyallup, WA
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Goals are mid to low 12's.... A 451 will get you there in quick order, and you could easily source the parts yourself and save about $500 over a "kit". Thats exactly what I did, and my motor has proven to be rock solid. My car is perfectly streetable and runs solidly into the 11's. For an extra $100 or so, you can offset grind the crank, and build a 470. The few hundred you save will be enough to invest in a bigger carb (you're gonna need it). I spent right around 5k on my motor a few years ago. I used a forged 413 crank sorced off Craigslist. I ran across a 230 casting 400 block on craigslist. Got an Engle solid cam / lifters / springs through Moparts member Jeff Patterson. Bought the rest of it online (Iconn pistons w/ Mahle rings; Scat Rods; Source Stealth heads; etc....) It was a fun build and I'm real happy with it.
Last edited by StealthWedge67; 10/23/13 05:02 PM.
LemonWedge - Street heavy / Strip ready - 11.07 @ 120
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Re: 400 Stroker Build Suggestions
[Re: 68KillerBee]
#1521306
10/23/13 05:13 PM
10/23/13 05:13 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,094 A Banana Republic near you.
JohnRR
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,094
A Banana Republic near you.
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Quote:
I went to performance only website and there is pretty much nothing on there. I need to be able to read all the info on what all is in the kits.
Humans are visual creatures but this is one of those cases where you are better off CALLING Dan , telling him what you want to do and what your goals are , Dan will ask you a few questions and tell you exactly what you need without trying to sell you something you don't need.
I prefer to SPEAK to people instead of just blindly ordering something online , that way you get EXACTLY what you want/need instead of wasting your time, and money, getting the wrong part ... or worse having to send parts back ON YOUR DIME WHEN THE PARTS ARE OBVIOUSLY SUB STANDARD ....
was that internet crap enough
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Re: 400 Stroker Build Suggestions
[Re: 68KillerBee]
#1521307
10/23/13 07:03 PM
10/23/13 07:03 PM
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 89 Cleveland, Ohio
BB73Challenger
member
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member
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 89
Cleveland, Ohio
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Quote:
I want to run mid to low 12's. I will likely have to switch up gear ratio and tire size though??
I drove 40 miles each way to the track in my street trim Challenger boasting 4 speed and a 499 ci 440 source kit & 400 block. 3:55 rear, Indy Firehawk street tires. Rolled through the traps and still got into the 12's ( drop the clutch and blow the tires off the line ) Your combo will have NO problems with a well built mill. Frankly I like the 3:55 gear and would not go steeper for freeway drivin'
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Re: 400 Stroker Build Suggestions
[Re: JohnRR]
#1521308
10/23/13 07:42 PM
10/23/13 07:42 PM
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Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,091 Delray beach, Florida
Performance Only
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,091
Delray beach, Florida
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Quote:
Quote:
I went to performance only website and there is pretty much nothing on there. I need to be able to read all the info on what all is in the kits.
Humans are visual creatures but this is one of those cases where you are better off CALLING Dan , telling him what you want to do and what your goals are , Dan will ask you a few questions and tell you exactly what you need without trying to sell you something you don't need.
I prefer to SPEAK to people instead of just blindly ordering something online , that way you get EXACTLY what you want/need instead of wasting your time, and money, getting the wrong part ... or worse having to send parts back ON YOUR DIME WHEN THE PARTS ARE OBVIOUSLY SUB STANDARD ....
was that internet crap enough
John, As you know, anybody can ship out boxed up parts and reap the rewards without any personal liability for said parts. If there's a problem it goes back to the manufacturer, and for the most part people will end up paying the freight and often times the repair costs. Where we try to excel is by selling complete kits that are thoroughly checked out to make sure there's no problems, we balance the assembly and set the rod bearing clearances, provide torque specs for the rods. (we disassemble clean, cycle the bolts and then stretch the bolt to proper length and note the torque needed) and verify the actual bearing clearances for the intended application. Obviously we charge more for all the extra work, but when you buy one of our kits the only clearances you need to check are the main bearings. all the other work is done for you. We've sold a lot of kits to Moparts members and the fact that I haven't heard a single bad word about our kits is something I'm proud of. Many people shop by lowest price alone and I fully understand that. If lowest price is what you need, so be it, but if you want a true no hassle rotating assembly, that's where we shine.
Last edited by Performance Only; 10/23/13 07:43 PM.
machine shop owner and engine builder
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Re: 400 Stroker Build Suggestions
[Re: Performance Only]
#1521309
10/23/13 09:05 PM
10/23/13 09:05 PM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,445 Missouri
68KillerBee
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 6,445
Missouri
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I went to performance only website and there is pretty much nothing on there. I need to be able to read all the info on what all is in the kits.
Humans are visual creatures but this is one of those cases where you are better off CALLING Dan , telling him what you want to do and what your goals are , Dan will ask you a few questions and tell you exactly what you need without trying to sell you something you don't need.
I prefer to SPEAK to people instead of just blindly ordering something online , that way you get EXACTLY what you want/need instead of wasting your time, and money, getting the wrong part ... or worse having to send parts back ON YOUR DIME WHEN THE PARTS ARE OBVIOUSLY SUB STANDARD ....
was that internet crap enough
John, As you know, anybody can ship out boxed up parts and reap the rewards without any personal liability for said parts. If there's a problem it goes back to the manufacturer, and for the most part people will end up paying the freight and often times the repair costs. Where we try to excel is by selling complete kits that are thoroughly checked out to make sure there's no problems, we balance the assembly and set the rod bearing clearances, provide torque specs for the rods. (we disassemble clean, cycle the bolts and then stretch the bolt to proper length and note the torque needed) and verify the actual bearing clearances for the intended application. Obviously we charge more for all the extra work, but when you buy one of our kits the only clearances you need to check are the main bearings. all the other work is done for you. We've sold a lot of kits to Moparts members and the fact that I haven't heard a single bad word about our kits is something I'm proud of. Many people shop by lowest price alone and I fully understand that. If lowest price is what you need, so be it, but if you want a true no hassle rotating assembly, that's where we shine.
I'll try to call you up this week. My problem with not being able to see/read what I'm getting is I work nights and sleep all day. So I can't really call because everything is closed. Except every three weeks I get 5 days off in a row and that would be this current week. Thanks everyone else for all the comments. I guess once I pick everything else out I will ask about cam selection (509 was one suggestion on here so far).
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Re: 400 Stroker Build Suggestions
[Re: 68KillerBee]
#1521311
10/23/13 10:43 PM
10/23/13 10:43 PM
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Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,569 Downtown Roebuck Ont
Twostick
Still wishing...
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Still wishing...
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 6,569
Downtown Roebuck Ont
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Quote:
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I went to performance only website and there is pretty much nothing on there. I need to be able to read all the info on what all is in the kits.
Humans are visual creatures but this is one of those cases where you are better off CALLING Dan , telling him what you want to do and what your goals are , Dan will ask you a few questions and tell you exactly what you need without trying to sell you something you don't need.
I prefer to SPEAK to people instead of just blindly ordering something online , that way you get EXACTLY what you want/need instead of wasting your time, and money, getting the wrong part ... or worse having to send parts back ON YOUR DIME WHEN THE PARTS ARE OBVIOUSLY SUB STANDARD ....
was that internet crap enough
John, As you know, anybody can ship out boxed up parts and reap the rewards without any personal liability for said parts. If there's a problem it goes back to the manufacturer, and for the most part people will end up paying the freight and often times the repair costs. Where we try to excel is by selling complete kits that are thoroughly checked out to make sure there's no problems, we balance the assembly and set the rod bearing clearances, provide torque specs for the rods. (we disassemble clean, cycle the bolts and then stretch the bolt to proper length and note the torque needed) and verify the actual bearing clearances for the intended application. Obviously we charge more for all the extra work, but when you buy one of our kits the only clearances you need to check are the main bearings. all the other work is done for you. We've sold a lot of kits to Moparts members and the fact that I haven't heard a single bad word about our kits is something I'm proud of. Many people shop by lowest price alone and I fully understand that. If lowest price is what you need, so be it, but if you want a true no hassle rotating assembly, that's where we shine.
I'll try to call you up this week. My problem with not being able to see/read what I'm getting is I work nights and sleep all day. So I can't really call because everything is closed. Except every three weeks I get 5 days off in a row and that would be this current week. Thanks everyone else for all the comments. I guess once I pick everything else out I will ask about cam selection (509 was one suggestion on here so far).
I don't know if I would recommend that cam or not but it did make the number .
Kevin
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Re: 400 Stroker Build Suggestions
[Re: Twostick]
#1521312
10/24/13 09:57 AM
10/24/13 09:57 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,019 Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 10,019
Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
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Dan has an excellent rep here, and would be my choice. I have learned a lot from his posts in the ten+ years I have been on this board. You won't go wrong going as big as you can on cubes. Heavy street cars with 3.54 gears need torque, and a 512 has the most. Pick your desired manners, then decide what type of cam, then cam specs, then the rest of the parts. The compression can then be decided on once you pick the cam, along with the style of intake manifold and headers. There are so many possible combinations that it is best to do it in this order.
8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
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Re: 400 Stroker Build Suggestions
[Re: gregsdart]
#1521313
10/24/13 10:24 AM
10/24/13 10:24 AM
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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Anonymous
Unregistered
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The price for basic rotating assemblies is the same so going big is a no brainer.
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