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Re: Borgeson Stering Box [Re: 1fastabody] #1519638
03/28/14 02:28 PM
03/28/14 02:28 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,491
Lethbridge, AB, Canada
dangina Offline
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Quote:

Do you have the old pitman arm or another pitman arm that you can try? This would take the pitman arm out of the question. I know a lot of these replacement parts are machined over seas and the quality control is not that great.




I can try the old pitman I guess. I've just wasted enough time and effort with this that I really don't want to pull it all apart and put it back together 2 more times lol

sorry about the confusion of the centerlink, I meant their are no master splines on the arm, I kinda wished they did though, I had a fast ratio arm for another car from PST and it didn't have any master splines on it as well, this one I have now is from firm feel

I had also tried it on without attaching to the centerlink, same results
I am using the bigger sector box for reference

Last edited by dangina; 03/28/14 02:46 PM.
Re: Borgeson Stering Box [Re: dangina] #1519639
03/28/14 03:22 PM
03/28/14 03:22 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 153
Wildwood, FL
1fastabody Offline OP
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Wildwood, FL
Quote:

Quote:

Do you have the old pitman arm or another pitman arm that you can try? This would take the pitman arm out of the question. I know a lot of these replacement parts are machined over seas and the quality control is not that great.




I can try the old pitman I guess. I've just wasted enough time and effort with this that I really don't want to pull it all apart and put it back together 2 more times lol

sorry about the confusion of the centerlink, I meant their are no master splines on the arm, I kinda wished they did though, I had a fast ratio arm for another car from PST and it didn't have any master splines on it as well, this one I have now is from firm feel

I had also tried it on without attaching to the centerlink, same results
I am using the bigger sector box for reference




If you don't want to install the old one you can use some calipers and measure the major diameter of the I.D. splines and then compare old pitman to new pitman. You can also do this on the box but you will have to measure from the end of the threads to a given point and measure both sector shafts the same.

Re: Borgeson Stering Box [Re: 1fastabody] #1519640
03/28/14 05:28 PM
03/28/14 05:28 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,491
Lethbridge, AB, Canada
dangina Offline
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ok to avoid future confusion, I pulled off the arm and attached the brand new moog arm I was gonna use, did not hook up to the center link and it was...worse. in the pic you can see that without the lock nut on I can only get it on this far:



I put the fast ratio back on and without the locknut I can get this far:


Re: Borgeson Stering Box [Re: dangina] #1519641
03/28/14 06:04 PM
03/28/14 06:04 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 153
Wildwood, FL
1fastabody Offline OP
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Wildwood, FL
So you definitely have a issue with the splines on your box. I would call Borgeson and ask about this issue. That Moog pitman arm would not even work with the lock washer. Not sure if I missed it, was this a large sector box or small?

Re: Borgeson Stering Box [Re: 1fastabody] #1519642
03/28/14 06:32 PM
03/28/14 06:32 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 813
Ontario,Canada
brads70 Offline
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Ontario,Canada
That sucks! Anyone else with the big sector shaft have this issue? I ask as I was/am considering one with the larger sector shaft to go with my fast ratio arms too. Hopefully this is an isolated issue?

Re: Borgeson Stering Box [Re: brads70] #1519643
03/28/14 07:30 PM
03/28/14 07:30 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
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jcc Offline
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So we are assuming this spline engagement issue is causing an un correctable bump steer issue?


Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
Re: Borgeson Stering Box [Re: jcc] #1519644
03/28/14 09:02 PM
03/28/14 09:02 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 813
Ontario,Canada
brads70 Offline
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Ontario,Canada
Quote:

So we are assuming this spline engagement issue is causing an un correctable bump steer issue?




I will say the 1/8th or so will effect bump steer, not saying it's a huge amount. I'm just thinking of my setup . I found moving the inner tie rod 1/8th did affect bump steer by about .020"( moving the outer tie rod had more effect) I also found you can't move the inner tire rod much as it hits the torsion bars.(Dangina I'd double check this!) I'm using 1.120" All the hours I spent getting it to where I did I would want the arm to mount in the same spot as my original box. I found Stock e bodys have ( mine was anyway?) about 3/4-1" of bump steer in 3 inches of compression travel. So with 99% of E/B body's out there will .020" make much difference? Nope... I'm just concerned with mine as I'm considering buying one of these boxes. I hear A body's do not suffer from the same issue though. I don't know for sure as I've never worked on one?

Last edited by brads70; 03/28/14 09:06 PM.
Re: Borgeson Stering Box [Re: brads70] #1519645
03/28/14 09:13 PM
03/28/14 09:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,575
The Netherlands
BigBlockMopar Offline
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Posts: 3,575
The Netherlands
Probably worth mentioning is that on my '73 Dart, with the stock powersteering box, the inner pass.side tie-rod grease zerk was hitting the torsion bar.
I had to put some shim/washers behind the steeringbox on both upper boltholes to make it clear the torsionbar.

Now with the Borg-box and slightly thicker 1" torsion bars, the tie-rod zerks clear the bars just fine without any mods.

Re: Borgeson Stering Box [Re: brads70] #1519646
03/28/14 09:25 PM
03/28/14 09:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 813
Ontario,Canada
brads70 Offline
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Ontario,Canada
Just a thought... you could put a bigger chamfer on the top of the arm and that would allow it to move higher up on the shaft?

Re: Borgeson Stering Box [Re: brads70] #1519647
03/28/14 11:10 PM
03/28/14 11:10 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,491
Lethbridge, AB, Canada
dangina Offline
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Lethbridge, AB, Canada
Quote:

Just a thought... you could put a bigger chamfer on the top of the arm and that would allow it to move higher up on the shaft?




Would a machine shop be able to do this? Now the 90$ arm is worth $200! I emailed boregson. Hopefully then can give me a proper answer. When I bought the box they havent fixed the clearance issue. You still have to grind a little on the box. But I can report 2 full turns lock to lock!

Last edited by dangina; 03/28/14 11:11 PM.
Re: Borgeson Stering Box [Re: brads70] #1519648
03/29/14 12:12 AM
03/29/14 12:12 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
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jcc Offline
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
Quote:

Quote:

So we are assuming this spline engagement issue is causing an un correctable bump steer issue?




I will say the 1/8th or so will effect bump steer, not saying it's a huge amount. I'm just thinking of my setup . I found moving the inner tie rod 1/8th did affect bump steer by about .020"( moving the outer tie rod had more effect) I also found you can't move the inner tire rod much as it hits the torsion bars.(Dangina I'd double check this!) I'm using 1.120" All the hours I spent getting it to where I did I would want the arm to mount in the same spot as my original box. I found Stock e bodys have ( mine was anyway?) about 3/4-1" of bump steer in 3 inches of compression travel. So with 99% of E/B body's out there will .020" make much difference? Nope... I'm just concerned with mine as I'm considering buying one of these boxes. I hear A body's do not suffer from the same issue though. I don't know for sure as I've never worked on one?




Maybe somewhat hidden in my question, do we know how correct the bumpsteer is before this new issue, or could the 1/8" actually improve matters, strictly by chance?


Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
Re: Borgeson Stering Box [Re: jcc] #1519649
03/29/14 01:13 AM
03/29/14 01:13 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,491
Lethbridge, AB, Canada
dangina Offline
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,491
Lethbridge, AB, Canada
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

So we are assuming this spline engagement issue is causing an un correctable bump steer issue?




I will say the 1/8th or so will effect bump steer, not saying it's a huge amount. I'm just thinking of my setup . I found moving the inner tie rod 1/8th did affect bump steer by about .020"( moving the outer tie rod had more effect) I also found you can't move the inner tire rod much as it hits the torsion bars.(Dangina I'd double check this!) I'm using 1.120" All the hours I spent getting it to where I did I would want the arm to mount in the same spot as my original box. I found Stock e bodys have ( mine was anyway?) about 3/4-1" of bump steer in 3 inches of compression travel. So with 99% of E/B body's out there will .020" make much difference? Nope... I'm just concerned with mine as I'm considering buying one of these boxes. I hear A body's do not suffer from the same issue though. I don't know for sure as I've never worked on one?




Maybe somewhat hidden in my question, do we know how correct the bumpsteer is before this new issue, or could the 1/8" actually improve matters, strictly by chance?




I actually bought the bumpsteer setup from longacre, finally get the chance today put it on and check what I'm at, and the kit they sent me is just a blank plate. I'll have to drill out the hub and 5x4.5" holes myself on my days off which unfortunatly is not until mid next week. If its not one thing its another...

Re: Borgeson Stering Box [Re: autoxcuda] #1519650
03/31/14 08:27 PM
03/31/14 08:27 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,491
Lethbridge, AB, Canada
dangina Offline
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Posts: 1,491
Lethbridge, AB, Canada
can anyone with a large sector installed chime in? still no word from boregson.

Re: Borgeson Stering Box [Re: dangina] #1519651
04/01/14 01:43 AM
04/01/14 01:43 AM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 797
WA
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pro451bee Offline
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Posts: 797
WA
Try some grease on the splines and nut/washer

Re: Borgeson Stering Box [Re: pro451bee] #1519652
04/01/14 03:31 AM
04/01/14 03:31 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,491
Lethbridge, AB, Canada
dangina Offline
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Quote:

Try some grease on the splines and nut/washer



there's quite a bit of anti-seize on there already

Re: Borgeson Stering Box [Re: dangina] #1519653
04/01/14 11:52 AM
04/01/14 11:52 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,491
Lethbridge, AB, Canada
dangina Offline
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got a reply back from boregson tech:

"You’ve got enough engagement between the nut and shaft to be safe. It may be just a thicker Pitman arm."

what do you think? I sent him a reply back saying the stock moog pitman had even less thread engagement, I also linked him this thread to read so he saw the problems I've been facing

Re: Borgeson Stering Box [Re: dangina] #1519654
04/01/14 11:58 AM
04/01/14 11:58 AM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 841
Santa Fe Springs, CA
Dan@Hotchkis Offline
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Santa Fe Springs, CA
I'll mock up the one I have today with our Q/R arms and post some results.

Re: Borgeson Stering Box [Re: Dan@Hotchkis] #1519655
04/01/14 02:18 PM
04/01/14 02:18 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,491
Lethbridge, AB, Canada
dangina Offline
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Posts: 1,491
Lethbridge, AB, Canada
Quote:

I'll mock up the one I have today with our Q/R arms and post some results.




thanks dan, appreciate it!

Re: Borgeson Stering Box [Re: Dan@Hotchkis] #1519656
04/01/14 02:36 PM
04/01/14 02:36 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 813
Ontario,Canada
brads70 Offline
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Posts: 813
Ontario,Canada
Quote:

I'll mock up the one I have today with our Q/R arms and post some results.





Re: Borgeson Stering Box [Re: brads70] #1519657
04/01/14 07:12 PM
04/01/14 07:12 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
72Swinger Offline
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Nebraska
FWIW my small spline is just like the one pictured above.


Mopar to the bone!!!
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