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Re: Borgeson Stering Box
[Re: komninon]
#1519598
02/20/14 05:59 PM
02/20/14 05:59 PM
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Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 813
Ontario,Canada
brads70
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 813
Ontario,Canada
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Quote:
i will be using the stock pitman arm with the new box. c
Bummer....
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Re: Borgeson Stering Box
[Re: Mopar Mitch]
#1519599
02/20/14 08:33 PM
02/20/14 08:33 PM
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 380
Escondido CA USA
Tomswheels
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 380
Escondido CA USA
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Quote:
I'm also interested to hear about the Borg'sn box WITH the fast-ratio longer arms (pitman and idler).... for steering response.
I initially also suspect the inside front tires will hit the frame rail more easily.
Aside from the newer technology of the Borg'sn box, in my opinion, the biggest advantage is the lighter weight of it as compared to a factory older ps box.... continuos reduced weight = faster lap times in every respect (accel, decel, cornering).
I'm putting Fast-Ratio on my 67 Valiant with a welded K-frame and a Borgeson. Parts just arrived, should be up and driving in 3 weeks...
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Re: Borgeson Stering Box
[Re: Tomswheels]
#1519600
02/20/14 10:09 PM
02/20/14 10:09 PM
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Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 7
Washington State
cudaragtop
member
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member
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 7
Washington State
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Quote:
Quote:
I'm also interested to hear about the Borg'sn box WITH the fast-ratio longer arms (pitman and idler).... for steering response.
I initially also suspect the inside front tires will hit the frame rail more easily.
Aside from the newer technology of the Borg'sn box, in my opinion, the biggest advantage is the lighter weight of it as compared to a factory older ps box.... continuos reduced weight = faster lap times in every respect (accel, decel, cornering).
I'm putting Fast-Ratio on my 67 Valiant with a welded K-frame and a Borgeson. Parts just arrived, should be up and driving in 3 weeks...
Sweet!
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Re: Borgeson Stering Box
[Re: Mopar Mitch]
#1519601
02/20/14 11:30 PM
02/20/14 11:30 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,704
MICHIGAN
DynoDave
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,704
MICHIGAN
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Quote:
I initially also suspect the inside front tires will hit the frame rail more easily.
As a learning moment for me....why would this be?
Fast ratio arm(s) on a FF box or Borg. box....wouldn't the physical travel of the arm(s) through space be the same (assuming the Borg. box pitman shaft exits the box at the same point in space as the factory / FF box)? You might get there (the frame rails/end of travel) quicker/sooner with the Borg. box due to a faster internal ratio, but wouldn't ultimate travel be the same? 
We're getting dangerously close to the limits of my thinking here... 
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Re: Borgeson Stering Box
[Re: DynoDave]
#1519602
02/21/14 01:53 AM
02/21/14 01:53 AM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
72Swinger
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
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Longer arms=more movement per steering wheel rotation=more movement at the tire per steering wheel rotation.
Mopar to the bone!!!
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Re: Borgeson Stering Box
[Re: Tomswheels]
#1519605
02/21/14 04:56 AM
02/21/14 04:56 AM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,491
Lethbridge, AB, Canada
dangina
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,491
Lethbridge, AB, Canada
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Quote:
Quote:
I'm also interested to hear about the Borg'sn box WITH the fast-ratio longer arms (pitman and idler).... for steering response.
I initially also suspect the inside front tires will hit the frame rail more easily.
Aside from the newer technology of the Borg'sn box, in my opinion, the biggest advantage is the lighter weight of it as compared to a factory older ps box.... continuos reduced weight = faster lap times in every respect (accel, decel, cornering).
I'm putting Fast-Ratio on my 67 Valiant with a welded K-frame and a Borgeson. Parts just arrived, should be up and driving in 3 weeks...
interested in this I've heard that it would be too twitchy on the hiway with this setup, but no actual real proof. I bought the stock pitman and idler but did the firm feel roller bearing idler kit instead but I haven't installed them yet, I may just bite the bullet and get the fast ratio arms instead. I figure that it should give a ratio around 2 turns lock to lock? which shouldn't be that bad - I've read that the camaro and firebird guys are getting 1.7 turns lock to lock and they don't seem to have any problems, actually they comment about getting that ratio lower...
Last edited by dangina; 02/21/14 04:57 AM.
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Re: Borgeson Stering Box
[Re: dangina]
#1519607
02/21/14 06:21 PM
02/21/14 06:21 PM
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Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,442
NW Chicago suburban area
Mopar Mitch
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 1,442
NW Chicago suburban area
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Dangina -- the "twichyness" will be caused by the alignmemt... if not enough positive caster, then more twitchyness.... Toe out will also welcome it, but IMO... just adapt and re-learn the car's new steering. My steering is quickened, additionally, by a smaller diameter steering wheel (11.5" dia)... driving on the hwy or road courses are no problem.... very enjoyable!... I have no "twitchyness" whatsoever.... steering is very responsive (original never rebuilt T/A ps box, fast rati pitman arm, corrected longer length idler arm). Another point to consider, is lower/wider profile tires ~50-45-40-35 having their wider/narrower contact patch, vs taller narrower profile tires ~55-60-65-70 having their narrower/longer contact patch. Latitude (cornering) improvemenmts benefit from wide/narrow patches (ie: auto-x/road racer tires), while longitudinal (accel/decel) improvements benefit from narrower/longer patches (ie: dragster rear tires). Steering with a narrower/longer contact patch (55-60-65-70 profiles) carry the car further straight; opposite with lower proflie tires. 
Mopar Mitch
"Road racers and autocrossers go in deeper and come out harder!"... and rain never stops us from having fun with our cars... in fact, it makes us better drivers!
Check out MOPAR ACTION MAGAZINE, August 2006 issue for feature article and specs on my autocross T/A!
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Re: Borgeson Stering Box
[Re: Mopar Mitch]
#1519609
02/21/14 07:46 PM
02/21/14 07:46 PM
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,491
Lethbridge, AB, Canada
dangina
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,491
Lethbridge, AB, Canada
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Quote:
Dangina -- the "twichyness" will be caused by the alignmemt... if not enough positive caster, then more twitchyness.... Toe out will also welcome it, but IMO... just adapt and re-learn the car's new steering. My steering is quickened, additionally, by a smaller diameter steering wheel (11.5" dia)... driving on the hwy or road courses are no problem.... very enjoyable!... I have no "twitchyness" whatsoever.... steering is very responsive (original never rebuilt T/A ps box, fast rati pitman arm, corrected longer length idler arm).
Another point to consider, is lower/wider profile tires ~50-45-40-35 having their wider/narrower contact patch, vs taller narrower profile tires ~55-60-65-70 having their narrower/longer contact patch. Latitude (cornering) improvemenmts benefit from wide/narrow patches (ie: auto-x/road racer tires), while longitudinal (accel/decel) improvements benefit from narrower/longer patches (ie: dragster rear tires). Steering with a narrower/longer contact patch (55-60-65-70 profiles) carry the car further straight; opposite with lower proflie tires.
Thanks mitch for the insight, you just made my decision easier  ordered a set today. Worse case scenario if it seems like too much, I put the stock ones back in
*edit* talked to matt at firm feel, says I can use their idler bearing roller kit with this setup, best of both worlds
Last edited by dangina; 02/21/14 10:32 PM.
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Re: Borgeson Stering Box
[Re: BigBlockMopar]
#1519610
02/23/14 06:01 PM
02/23/14 06:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,575
The Netherlands
BigBlockMopar
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 3,575
The Netherlands
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Quote:
I still have a stock, unmodified K-member in my '73 Dart.
Since the K-member in my car has been powdercoated at one time, adding reinforcements while mounted in the car is a bit hard to do at the moment.
I do want to gusset the steeringbox mount but that will probably be when I'm ready to an engine swap in the car.
Just out of the blue I decided to add a simple plate to gusset and reinforce the steeringbox-mount a little better.
I made the plate large enough to reach the areas where I could still easily clean the powder coating off the member with an angle grinder.
I also welded a plate across the bottoms of the LCA's and welded the tierod sleeves in the centers.
When I took the car for a spin after this I tought I could feel the steering felt a bit tighter and more direct. But the improvement was much yet.
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Re: Borgeson Stering Box
[Re: sublimehemi]
#1519615
02/28/14 10:34 AM
02/28/14 10:34 AM
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,001
Coram, NY
Pool Fixer
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 3,001
Coram, NY
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Quote:
Quote:
I just ordered a borgeson box and qa1 kmember along with qa1 LCA's... wondering if I will have to clearance the box for the qa1 kmember?
mine fit good no grindage
Thanks! another question: I installed the SD concepts serpentine conversion on my 440 so I'm running a 99 grand cherokee power steering pump. Not sure what hoses/fittings I'll need.
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Re: Borgeson Stering Box
[Re: Tomswheels]
#1519616
03/19/14 03:56 AM
03/19/14 03:56 AM
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Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 7
Washington State
cudaragtop
member
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member
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 7
Washington State
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Quote:
I'm putting Fast-Ratio on my 67 Valiant with a welded K-frame and a Borgeson. Parts just arrived, should be up and driving in 3 weeks...
Just checking to see if you got it installed yet... 
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Re: Borgeson Stering Box
[Re: cudaragtop]
#1519617
03/19/14 11:57 AM
03/19/14 11:57 AM
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 841
Santa Fe Springs, CA
Dan@Hotchkis
super stock
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super stock
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 841
Santa Fe Springs, CA
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Quote:
Quote:
I'm putting Fast-Ratio on my 67 Valiant with a welded K-frame and a Borgeson. Parts just arrived, should be up and driving in 3 weeks...
Just checking to see if you got it installed yet...
Nope. We are still waiting for some other parts to come in.
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