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Re: 440 breaking up at 5500rpm [Re: tywebb2] #1511661
10/04/13 02:46 PM
10/04/13 02:46 PM
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USA
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B3RE Offline
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I guarantee if you put springs with 580# open and 230# seat you will get rid of the valve float and even wear some of that aggressiveness off of the lobes.

Seriously though, I know what the problem is because I have experienced it. Find a way to raise the rocker shaft .250", yes I said 1/4", and the problem will go away. Let me know if you need assistance with this and I can help. Your springs are not too heavy, but I don't think they are too light either, IF the rocker shaft is at the right place. Logic would tell you if the only thing you changed was the cam, then the first place to look for a problem is in the valvetrain.

Last edited by B3RE; 10/04/13 06:09 PM.

Mike Beachel

I didn't write the rules of math nor create the laws of physics, I am just bound by them.
Re: 440 breaking up at 5500rpm [Re: B3RE] #1511662
10/05/13 12:51 AM
10/05/13 12:51 AM
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Jarrettsville, MD
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tywebb2 Offline OP
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Well I installed new plugs and backed the preload off another 1/4 turn. Hopefully that will do the trick? Will know tomorrow morning when I take it out for a test run. If this doesnt work then I will be pulling a couple springs and having them checked.

Cant say I have ever heard of raising rocker shaft 1/4"? What is the theory behind doing that?

I dont have a crank trigger.

Last edited by tywebb2; 10/05/13 12:53 AM.

'72 440 Cuda
11.673 @ 115.91 w/1.663 60'
Re: 440 breaking up at 5500rpm [Re: tywebb2] #1511663
10/05/13 01:38 AM
10/05/13 01:38 AM
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Ambridge, Pa.
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rickraw Offline
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If u raised them that high, i think, no, i know u will have a bigger problem.

Re: 440 breaking up at 5500rpm [Re: tywebb2] #1511664
10/05/13 02:12 AM
10/05/13 02:12 AM
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Gainesville,FL
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Quote:

Well I installed new plugs and backed the preload off another 1/4 turn. Hopefully that will do the trick? Will know tomorrow morning when I take it out for a test run. If this doesnt work then I will be pulling a couple springs and having them checked.

Cant say I have ever heard of raising rocker shaft 1/4"? What is the theory behind doing that?

I dont have a crank trigger.


It's the springs combined with the cam. They work fine with the old MP cam but not with the new .904 lifter stuff,no suprise really. Another option would be replace the cam again.8yr old valve springs? LOL Get a few checked and go from there.

Re: 440 breaking up at 5500rpm [Re: tywebb2] #1511665
10/05/13 03:01 AM
10/05/13 03:01 AM
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Bend,OR USA
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Cab_Burge Online work
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I like to set the seat pressures from 140 to 175 lbs on the seats and from 325 to 375 lbs opened on all of the agressive lobed cams with either hydraulic or solid fat tappet lifters. Maybe a little more with the really good lifters like the tool steel or the Shubeck type ceramic puck bottomed lifters


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: 440 breaking up at 5500rpm [Re: rickraw] #1511666
10/05/13 09:11 AM
10/05/13 09:11 AM
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Quote:

If u raised them that high, i think, no, i know u will have a bigger problem.



I am not making a wild guess here. Based on his valve lift and the type of rocker he has, it will get him in the ballpark at .250". I use math formulas to arrive at my conclusions, not just guesses or what I think might help. I can confidently stand behind my advice.


Mike Beachel

I didn't write the rules of math nor create the laws of physics, I am just bound by them.
Re: 440 breaking up at 5500rpm [Re: tywebb2] #1511667
10/05/13 09:34 AM
10/05/13 09:34 AM
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Quote:


Cant say I have ever heard of raising rocker shaft 1/4"? What is the theory behind doing that.



Roller rockers have different geometry than factory rockers do so the geometry is thrown out of wack when they are used. Your combination is very close to one I corrected geometry on and the car pulled for another 800 rpm. I couldn't say how much of an improvement you will see, but I will guarantee an improvement. The only reason you didn't have an issue with the 509, is because the lobes are so much slower than your current cam (roughly the same lift with 20 deg less duration). I have explained more in other threads. Just search rocker geometry or B3RE.


Mike Beachel

I didn't write the rules of math nor create the laws of physics, I am just bound by them.
Re: 440 breaking up at 5500rpm [Re: B3RE] #1511668
10/05/13 11:24 AM
10/05/13 11:24 AM
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Jarrettsville, MD
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tywebb2 Offline OP
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Well....1/4 turn less preload and I it is still breaking up as most of you guys predicted. I want to say it wasn't quite as bad a previously but that may be splitting hairs. It is still breaking up at around 5700rpm.

Guess the next step will be to pull a couple springs and have them checked next week. Will have to do a little more research on raising the rocker shafts. My combo is fairly mild with the OOTB Eddy heads, comp pro mag rockers, 10:1, and the Lunati 630303 hyd cam. I thought Comp designed the rockers for install without any major modifications?

As far as it being an issue on the electrical side...it could be possible but I think it is just strange how the car ran fine with the 509 cam and after only swapping the cam this problem showed up. The distributor cap looks good and clean, new plugs installed, and tried a different chip in the MSD box. All leads me to want to go after the valvetrain first.


'72 440 Cuda
11.673 @ 115.91 w/1.663 60'
Re: 440 breaking up at 5500rpm [Re: tywebb2] #1511669
10/05/13 12:40 PM
10/05/13 12:40 PM
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Ontario, Canada
Dodgem Offline
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take another 1/2 turn out and try that first! a little ticking won't hurt anything!

Re: 440 breaking up at 5500rpm [Re: Dodgem] #1511670
10/05/13 01:10 PM
10/05/13 01:10 PM
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Jarrettsville, MD
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tywebb2 Offline OP
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I should only have 1/4 turn preload on them now...at least that is what it should be. I guess I could go through and start over finding "0" lash and then put 1/8 turn on them...and see what happens.


'72 440 Cuda
11.673 @ 115.91 w/1.663 60'
Re: 440 breaking up at 5500rpm [Re: tywebb2] #1511671
10/05/13 01:45 PM
10/05/13 01:45 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
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Ontario, Canada
Dodgem Offline
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Lashing hydraulic cams is very tricky. try backing off 1/2 turn just to see what it does before re setting.

Re: 440 breaking up at 5500rpm [Re: Dodgem] #1511672
10/07/13 12:46 PM
10/07/13 12:46 PM
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MINNESOTA
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I think I would try checking my timing first

Re: 440 breaking up at 5500rpm [Re: tywebb2] #1511673
10/07/13 01:29 PM
10/07/13 01:29 PM
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Portland, Oregon
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Digger73 Offline
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Dist rotor phasing?
Digger73


I live with fear everyday but, sometimes she lets me race!
Re: 440 breaking up at 5500rpm [Re: Digger73] #1511674
10/08/13 02:09 PM
10/08/13 02:09 PM
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organ
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check the underside of the air filter lid for evidence of reversion. i had this exact same problem, and my air cleaner lid was literally dripping with fuel from reversion. a carb spacer (to in crease plenum volume) took care of the problem. i also had some exhaust restriction, which compounded the problem.


for what is the good life if not doing things thoughtfully?
Re: 440 breaking up at 5500rpm [Re: maximum entropy] #1511675
10/08/13 02:35 PM
10/08/13 02:35 PM
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Overpriced Housing Central
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I'd bet that engine is done making power at 5200ish

Re: 440 breaking up at 5500rpm [Re: RobX4406] #1511676
10/09/13 01:48 PM
10/09/13 01:48 PM
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Tucson, Az.
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Can't say how many times we had to replace plugs or plug wires after doing a cam break-in. All that heat with a car that's not moving is pretty hard on the boots.
Also, that cam seems somewhat smaller than the 509, but I don't know if that's what your intention was.

Re: 440 breaking up at 5500rpm [Re: RobX4406] #1511677
10/11/13 11:04 PM
10/11/13 11:04 PM
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B3RE Offline
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Quote:

I'd bet that engine is done making power at 5200ish




Not with good heads and that cam. With stockers and a generic cam I would agree.


Mike Beachel

I didn't write the rules of math nor create the laws of physics, I am just bound by them.
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