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Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel [Re: fullmetaljacket] #1505965
09/25/13 12:34 AM
09/25/13 12:34 AM
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Posts: 8,031
Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Offline
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yes, shell v-power 93. I was told by vp fuels its the only pump gas with out all the other junk in it. smells like race fuel when it burns. don't know just whats in it, but its the best pump gas around here and if your in Michigan, Kroger gas seems to be the same thing as their affiliated with shell and have the same race fuel smell. been runnin it all summer and at the track,no issues with 11.3:1 compression(195 cranking) 36* timing. look it up on the web,theirs plenty written about it.

Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel [Re: fullmetaljacket] #1505966
09/25/13 01:13 AM
09/25/13 01:13 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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I'm running PUMP GAS 87 octane moose piss in my 10.2:1
416 engine... the cam will do wonders to you pressure

Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel [Re: mopar dave] #1505967
09/25/13 09:46 AM
09/25/13 09:46 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 24,562
Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
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Quote:

yes, shell v-power 93. I was told by vp fuels its the only pump gas with out all the other junk in it. smells like race fuel when it burns. don't know just whats in it, but its the best pump gas around here and if your in Michigan, Kroger gas seems to be the same thing as their affiliated with shell and have the same race fuel smell. been runnin it all summer and at the track,no issues with 11.3:1 compression(195 cranking) 36* timing. look it up on the web,theirs plenty written about it.




Bee Ess NO pump gas 93 smells like race fuel. I've run them all. They all produce the same results. I usually run either BP 93 or Shell depending on what side of the street I'm on. We also have an Exxon and Sunoco I use from time to time.
I will say this last year I had a gallon and a half of 110 left and boy the lawnmower loved it.. smelled like race day as I was cutting the grass....lol

Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel [Re: Mr.Yuck] #1505968
09/25/13 10:36 AM
09/25/13 10:36 AM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1 Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

yes, shell v-power 93. I was told by vp fuels its the only pump gas with out all the other junk in it. smells like race fuel when it burns. don't know just whats in it, but its the best pump gas around here and if your in Michigan, Kroger gas seems to be the same thing as their affiliated with shell and have the same race fuel smell. been runnin it all summer and at the track,no issues with 11.3:1 compression(195 cranking) 36* timing. look it up on the web,theirs plenty written about it.




Bee Ess NO pump gas 93 smells like race fuel. I've run them all. They all produce the same results. I usually run either BP 93 or Shell depending on what side of the street I'm on. We also have an Exxon and Sunoco I use from time to time.
I will say this last year I had a gallon and a half of 110 left and boy the lawnmower loved it.. smelled like race day as I was cutting the grass....lol




When I put race gas in my mower, it shoots all the clippings into my neighbors yard. lol

Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel [Re: Mr.Yuck] #1505969
09/25/13 11:48 AM
09/25/13 11:48 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,031
Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Offline
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well, then you haven't ran the gas that I use. i'v been acused of runnin race fuel a few times. I know it has 11% alcohol and toluene. propably why it has a race fuel smell. look it up on the web, has a lot of good stuff in it.

Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel [Re: mopar dave] #1505970
09/25/13 12:08 PM
09/25/13 12:08 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,357
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda Offline
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Quote:

well, then you haven't ran the gas that I use. i'v been acused of runnin race fuel a few times. I know it has 11% alcohol and toluene. propably why it has a race fuel smell. look it up on the web, has a lot of good stuff in it.



It may be different up there, but the Shell V power 93 down here that I use occasionally in my car definitely doesn't smell like race fuel.
I've been just as fast at the track w/ no name premium 93 from Sparky's Fireworks as I have w/ Shell, Amoco, BP, Sunoco, etc. Went 9.65 at 140 mph back in April this year w/ gas from the fireworks store.
My car slows a tenth and a little over 1 mph on VP 110, but the only thing I changed was the fuel. Never tried playing w/ timing or anything else.


CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel [Re: an8sec70cuda] #1505971
09/25/13 03:14 PM
09/25/13 03:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,031
Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Offline
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it may be different in other locations. I also lost time with vp110. I advanced timing with it too, but never gained back what I lost with the vp.

Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel [Re: Challenger 1] #1505972
09/25/13 03:48 PM
09/25/13 03:48 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,165
Left Coast
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BobR Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

Why in the world wouldn't he go make a couple runs on 93 octane? He could even put a dash of grape fuel fragrance from Summit, smells like race fuel, I've used it a couple times for car shows and car cruises.




No it does not smell any where close to real race gas. I use the stuff too some times, the stuff from summit is weak. Even the good stuff don't smell like race fuel.

I have ran 110 leaded race gas in a 10.5-1 340 since 1983.

Then I switched to 92 octane about 6 years ago because I drive my car a lot now a days and I can't afford race gas even though I sell it at work. And I'm here to tell you the race gas runs way better in in a low compression motor and cooler.

Plus I have ran straight race gas in in dirt bikes, jets skis, chain saws, weedeaters, 2 stroke dirt bikes love it, generators and many other motors and they all ran much better on race gas. I would mix it half and half with 91 unleaded most of the time, because full strength is not always needed. But I have burned a bunch of it straight and it won't hurt even the weakest motor.

I have been on camping trips to the lake, we ride jet ski/ wave runners during the day and dirt bikes at night. I would bring plenty of mixed race fuel for our 2 stroke dirt bikes.. I would always provide some gas for the jet skis and everyone and I mean everyone would be fired up how good there jet skis ran with it. To the point that I sell lot's of race gas to bike and water craft people now a days.

Everything runs better on race gas, I'm sure.

My 71 stock 340 sure as hell does run better with race gas.

I ran straight race gas in a 87 dodge ramcharger with a 360 quradrajet carb at graval rama here in town and my truck ran the quickest on straight race gas at the 300' sand drags. Then I ran the same ramcharger on race gas and nitrous oxide and it ran 14.20 in the quarter on asphalt with stock 360. I have done plenty of back to back testing years ago to see if it really did help and it always helped. Time clocks don't lie.




My buddy has a dyno in his engine building shop. Race gas always makes more power. Pump gas is designed for almost everything but performance. Race gas is designed exactly for performance. There are differences in race gas. One might be better than another.

Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel [Re: an8sec70cuda] #1505973
09/25/13 03:52 PM
09/25/13 03:52 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 8,165
Left Coast
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BobR Offline
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Left Coast
Quote:

Quote:

well, then you haven't ran the gas that I use. i'v been acused of runnin race fuel a few times. I know it has 11% alcohol and toluene. propably why it has a race fuel smell. look it up on the web, has a lot of good stuff in it.



It may be different up there, but the Shell V power 93 down here that I use occasionally in my car definitely doesn't smell like race fuel.
I've been just as fast at the track w/ no name premium 93 from Sparky's Fireworks as I have w/ Shell, Amoco, BP, Sunoco, etc. Went 9.65 at 140 mph back in April this year w/ gas from the fireworks store.
My car slows a tenth and a little over 1 mph on VP 110, but the only thing I changed was the fuel. Never tried playing w/ timing or anything else.




In California the gasoline is produced to a very specific recipe and there is virtually no difference between brands. They even will exchange fuel from brand to brand when convenient. This is expecially true with independent gas stations. There may be 4 different kinds of fuel in one tank.

Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel [Re: BobR] #1505974
09/25/13 04:00 PM
09/25/13 04:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 13,357
Marion, South Carolina [><]
an8sec70cuda Offline
I Live Here
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Marion, South Carolina [><]
Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

well, then you haven't ran the gas that I use. i'v been acused of runnin race fuel a few times. I know it has 11% alcohol and toluene. propably why it has a race fuel smell. look it up on the web, has a lot of good stuff in it.



It may be different up there, but the Shell V power 93 down here that I use occasionally in my car definitely doesn't smell like race fuel.
I've been just as fast at the track w/ no name premium 93 from Sparky's Fireworks as I have w/ Shell, Amoco, BP, Sunoco, etc. Went 9.65 at 140 mph back in April this year w/ gas from the fireworks store.
My car slows a tenth and a little over 1 mph on VP 110, but the only thing I changed was the fuel. Never tried playing w/ timing or anything else.




In California the gasoline is produced to a very specific recipe and there is virtually no difference between brands. They even will exchange fuel from brand to brand when convenient. This is expecially true with independent gas stations. There may be 4 different kinds of fuel in one tank.



Yessir. I used to work w/ a fella that drove a fuel delivery truck...said they used to fill tanks at several different stations (different brands) from the same truck/tanker all the time.


CHIP
'70 hemicuda, 575" Hemi, 727, Dana 60
'69 road runner, 440-6, 18 spline 4 speed, Dana 60
'71 Demon, 340, low gear 904, 8.75
'73 Chrysler New Yorker, 440, 727, 8.75
'90 Chevy 454SS Silverado, 476" BBC, TH400, 14 bolt
'06 GMC 2500HD LBZ Duramax
Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel [Re: an8sec70cuda] #1505975
09/25/13 04:42 PM
09/25/13 04:42 PM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 667
IL
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Dart451 Offline
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IL
I gained 7 more hp using 93 over 110. Dyno proven
This is on 700+ hp engine

Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel [Re: BobR] #1505976
09/26/13 12:24 AM
09/26/13 12:24 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,031
Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Offline
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yes they do deliver same fuel to different brand stations to a degree, but I bet you'll never find Sunoco gas in the tanks at a shell station or shell gas in the tanks of a Sunoco station. that fuel is blended differently.

Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel [Re: mopar dave] #1505977
09/26/13 12:59 AM
09/26/13 12:59 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Romeo MI
If I recall the number right anything over 32 degrees
you start loosing efficiency so if your at 40* your
fuel is burning too slow and needs to be less octane so
you can pull it back... BUT the heads are important
here... a head can be more efficient in itself so
it comes down to what is efficient for your set up...
Don... I'm sorry your brother has this smell fetish
but he needs to get over it and start making power
with less octane... I will say he will make more power
with less octane and it could be moose piss 87 if
he buys from the same place all the time so the tune
can stay the same

Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel [Re: mopar dave] #1505978
09/26/13 03:33 AM
09/26/13 03:33 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 20,173
Park Forest, IL
slantzilla Online content
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Park Forest, IL
Quote:

yes they do deliver same fuel to different brand stations to a degree, but I bet you'll never find Sunoco gas in the tanks at a shell station or shell gas in the tanks of a Sunoco station. that fuel is blended differently.




My cousin used to haul fuel out of the depot up here. All brands start as the same gas, they add the additives as it is loaded into the tanker. He said you would see lights on the panel for each separate additive. Marathon had the most lights on when filling.


"Everybody funny, now you funny too."
Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1505979
09/26/13 11:23 AM
09/26/13 11:23 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,031
Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Offline
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engine masters has a Pontiac build that the builder says a cylindrical dish piston is more efficient therefore requiring less timing. my pistons have a D dish. so maybe the piston top have as much effect on timing as the chamber shape?

Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel [Re: mopar dave] #1505980
09/26/13 11:51 AM
09/26/13 11:51 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Romeo MI
Quote:

engine masters has a Pontiac build that the builder says a cylindrical dish piston is more efficient therefore requiring less timing. my pistons have a D dish. so maybe the piston top have as much effect on timing as the chamber shape?




The piston top makes a difference also.. its just a
matter of how easy and efficient the whole thing burns

Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1505981
09/26/13 12:17 PM
09/26/13 12:17 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 16,376
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dogdays Offline
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I just read that article and that figure 8 pattern on top of the piston is no cylindrical dish! Steve Dulcich, how did you let him get away with that?

On to the topic of piston top shape. One of the greats said that we need to remember the top of the piston is the bottom of the combustion chamber.

Larry Widmer, from his writings and work, believes there is a lot of power in the piston top. He also mentions shaping the chamber to push the gases toward the exhaust valve and leave as little clearance as possible around the intake valve.

One of the points that impressed me early in my study of spark ignition engines is that flame speed is relatively slow, in the same order of magnitude as the piston speed. It seems most of the really serious work of the past decades has been aimed at completing the combustion event more rapidly. The major way this is done is by use of squish.

R.

Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel [Re: dogdays] #1505982
09/26/13 01:00 PM
09/26/13 01:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,031
Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Offline
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Mt Morris Michigan
i noticed that too, but he did mention machining the piston tops. I was thinking maybe that's what they looked like in the pic before he machined them. what piston top shape would the indy 360-1 chamber require?

Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel [Re: mopar dave] #1505983
09/26/13 03:27 PM
09/26/13 03:27 PM
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dogdays Offline
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No, that's how they looked in the engine as he was putting the heads on. I understand not messing with the interviewee, but that whole line about the cylindrical dish being best is so wrong. Maybe that's why I don't do interviews and articles!


R.

PS, Steve, if you eventually read this, kudos to you for generally getting the English right. I recently saw a hunting magazine article where there must have been 15 mistakes on the first page!

Last edited by dogdays; 09/26/13 03:29 PM.
Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel [Re: dogdays] #1505984
09/27/13 10:28 AM
09/27/13 10:28 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 8,031
Mt Morris Michigan
mopar dave Offline
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Mt Morris Michigan
doesn't someone proof read that stuff before its printed? I see these mistakes all the time. the indy max block article had 2 different strokes listed 4.125 and 4.150.

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