Moparts
Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel
Posted By: B3422W5
Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel - 09/23/13 01:04 AM
Another thread made me curious about this.
What would be the effect performance wise by running110 race fuel on a 9.5 compression aluminum headed 360?
I have had many arguements with this guy( who doesn't post or read here) telling him his car would probably run better and more consistant if he ditched the race fuel.
He insists on running it because he likes the smell of race fuel.
Is it hurting his ET slip at all to run the stuff?
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel - 09/23/13 01:10 AM
Quote:
Another thread made me curious about this.
What would be the effect performance wise by running110 race fuel on a 9.5 compression aluminum headed 360?
I have had many arguements with this guy( who doesn't post or read here) telling him his car would probably run better and more consistant if he ditched the race fuel.
He insists on running it because he likes the smell of race fuel.
Is it hurting his ET slip at all to run the stuff?
I started on 112 octane and changed to 110.. that was
all I changed and the car went quicker and faster..
he could be quicker on moose pee fuel(87 octane)
Posted By: mopar dave
Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel - 09/23/13 01:13 AM
I have always went slower on straight 110 vs 93 when I had 10.5:1.
Posted By: B3422W5
Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel - 09/23/13 01:18 AM
I have been stumped for a while about this car. Ran quite decent considering the low compression and race gas. He wanted to go faster so I suggested he yank the stock eddies off and get them ported
He did( and by someone who has done plenty of them with proven results) and the car has struggled to run even close to as well as it did before. I suspect the compression is even lower now than it was and the race fuel has had even more negative effect
Posted By: ProSport
Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel - 09/23/13 01:35 AM
Why in the world wouldn't he go make a couple runs on 93 octane? He could even put a dash of grape fuel fragrance from Summit, smells like race fuel, I've used it a couple times for car shows and car cruises.
Posted By: HEMIFRED
Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel - 09/23/13 01:47 AM
race fuel burns at a slower rate than pump. I use 110 in a 12.5 -1 hemi 114 or 116 slows it down
Posted By: Challenger 1
Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel - 09/23/13 01:56 AM
Quote:
Why in the world wouldn't he go make a couple runs on 93 octane? He could even put a dash of grape fuel fragrance from Summit, smells like race fuel, I've used it a couple times for car shows and car cruises.
No it does not smell any where close to real race gas. I use the stuff too some times, the stuff from summit is weak. Even the good stuff don't smell like race fuel.
I have ran 110 leaded race gas in a 10.5-1 340 since 1983.
Then I switched to 92 octane about 6 years ago because I drive my car a lot now a days and I can't afford race gas even though I sell it at work. And I'm here to tell you the race gas runs way better in in a low compression motor and cooler.
Plus I have ran straight race gas in in dirt bikes, jets skis, chain saws, weedeaters, 2 stroke dirt bikes love it, generators and many other motors and they all ran much better on race gas. I would mix it half and half with 91 unleaded most of the time, because full strength is not always needed. But I have burned a bunch of it straight and it won't hurt even the weakest motor.
I have been on camping trips to the lake, we ride jet ski/ wave runners during the day and dirt bikes at night. I would bring plenty of mixed race fuel for our 2 stroke dirt bikes.. I would always provide some gas for the jet skis and everyone and I mean everyone would be fired up how good there jet skis ran with it. To the point that I sell lot's of race gas to bike and water craft people now a days.
Everything runs better on race gas, I'm sure.
My 71 stock 340 sure as hell does run better with race gas.
I ran straight race gas in a 87 dodge ramcharger with a 360 quradrajet carb at graval rama here in town and my truck ran the quickest on straight race gas at the 300' sand drags. Then I ran the same ramcharger on race gas and nitrous oxide and it ran 14.20 in the quarter on asphalt with stock 360. I have done plenty of back to back testing years ago to see if it really did help and it always helped. Time clocks don't lie.
Posted By: B3422W5
Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel - 09/23/13 01:56 AM
Quote:
Why in the world wouldn't he go make a couple runs on 93 octane? He could even put a dash of grape fuel fragrance from Summit, smells like race fuel, I've used it a couple times for car shows and car cruises.
It's my little brother... He won't listen to anything I tell him.
Most of the time he just likes firing it up in his garage, rapping on the gas pedal, and sniffing race gas fumes.... Would be sad if it wasn't true
Posted By: jcc
Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel - 09/23/13 02:15 AM
Are we talking about 93 Race gas or street E10 93? Because I might suspect street E10 93 might be slower then race 110. However FWIW street 93 normally has less BTU's then 87, and those are what push the pistons.
Posted By: fishy340
Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel - 09/23/13 02:19 AM
My dart went slower with 100oct then it did when i ran sunoco 93 pumpgas.
Posted By: '72CudaRacer
Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel - 09/23/13 02:52 AM
The thing about 110 race gas is because it burns so much slower, you got to start lighting it sooner. If the car is tuned correctly on pump gas, then you switch to race fuel and do not change anything else, it probably will slow down. Now put race gas in it AND put some more timing into it, then it should respond nicely. Octane can cover up a few tuning "sins" also.
Brian
Posted By: RobX4406
Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel - 09/23/13 03:15 AM
First off... Running more octane than the engine needs is a waste of money.
I tend to run only enough octane to keep it out of detonation with a crisp tune up.
Second, when I raced motorcycles there were all sorts of guys in spec classes that would run sunoco 110, etc in the bikes. Got their rears kicked by a bike running 91-93 from the local cheap circle K pump! The bikes didn't need the octane. I schooled bunches of them on long straights where 2-3hp was a BIG deal.
I'd test it with pump gas and see how it reacts.
Posted By: ProSport
Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel - 09/23/13 03:46 AM
Quote:
No it does not smell any where close to real race gas. I use the stuff too some times, the stuff from summit is weak. Even the good stuff don't smell like race fuel.
Uh yea it actually does smell like the 110 Cam2 in my area.
Quote:
Everything runs better on race gas, I'm sure.
Not always, I've seen it too many times where a low compression motor ran better on 93 octane, even with tuning. But if someone says their car would be quicker if they used cheaper gas I'd say prove it!
Posted By: dartman366
Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel - 09/23/13 03:56 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Why in the world wouldn't he go make a couple runs on 93 octane? He could even put a dash of grape fuel fragrance from Summit, smells like race fuel, I've used it a couple times for car shows and car cruises.
It's my little brother... He won't listen to anything I tell him.
Most of the time he just likes firing it up in his garage, rapping on the gas pedal, and sniffing race gas fumes.... Would be sad if it wasn't true
The smell of Cam 2 is very addictive, there is nothing wrong with your brother just because he likes to fire up the motor to get his cam2 fix,I have done it before and I am ok. 
Posted By: bonefish
Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel - 09/23/13 06:35 AM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Why in the world wouldn't he go make a couple runs on 93 octane? He could even put a dash of grape fuel fragrance from Summit, smells like race fuel, I've used it a couple times for car shows and car cruises.
It's my little brother... He won't listen to anything I tell him.
Most of the time he just likes firing it up in his garage, rapping on the gas pedal, and sniffing race gas fumes.... Would be sad if it wasn't true
The smell of Cam 2 is very addictive, there is nothing wrong with your brother just because he likes to fire up the motor to get his cam2 fix,I have done it before and I am ok.
I,d get a second opinion 
Posted By: slantzilla
Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel - 09/23/13 07:47 AM
I've seen it proven on a chassis dyno many times, race fuel is a waste of money if your motor doesn't have the compression to need it.
My own slow junk would slow down .2 on 100 compared to 93 pump swill.
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel - 09/23/13 01:06 PM
Is he only running 110? That's a waste of $$$$. As mentioned I guess it can go either way. Maybe he can run more advance? I know my old 95 Dakoda sport ran better w/ 2.5 gallons of 104 mixed w/ 5-6 gal of 93. I run 93 in this 11.2:1 440-6, of course I also run meth/h2o injection. If he likes the smell he can always run a mix.. maybe 1 gallon per 6 of 93.
Posted By: tubtar
Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel - 09/23/13 02:39 PM
It doesn't take a lot of mix to keep that fragrant aroma and you also get a bit of detonation protection.
I would use the last season's left overs in what ever was closest.......lawn mower , snow blower , motorhome , pick up truck.
Even a gallon to 10 - 12 will give you the sweet smell of success.
Posted By: Crizila
Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel - 09/23/13 02:57 PM
Go to ProSystems carbs web sight - "under the scoop" - "how to choose an octane".
Posted By: GTX MATT
Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel - 09/23/13 03:02 PM
Quote:
It doesn't take a lot of mix to keep that fragrant aroma and you also get a bit of detonation protection.
I would use the last season's left overs in what ever was closest.......lawn mower , snow blower , motorhome , pick up truck.
Even a gallon to 10 - 12 will give you the sweet smell of success.
It barely takes any to get the smell
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel - 09/23/13 03:09 PM
Don... tell your brother to put some fancy smelling
race fuel in a baby food jar and when he needs a fix
to open it and get his sniff... tell him to save his
money and put 87 to 93 octane in the car.. he DOESNT
need race fuel
Posted By: racealittle
Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel - 09/23/13 03:30 PM
I know that back when racing gas was cheap and easy to get back in the early '90's, I would put some in my 9.3 compression 440 and the car ran OK.
I did find that I had to reset the float levels in the carb though. The other thing I noticed was that the engine ran rougher and at a higher decibel with pump gas vs. race fuel.
Often I would fill the tank at the track with the lowest octane leaded race fuel and run the car. It was only a little more in cost per gallon at a U.S. track compared to what pump gas cost in Canada.
The car ran so smooth and quiet with race fuel that I could actually have a conversation with someone in the car. With pump gas there would be yelling back an forth. The benefits of leaded race fuel would last for several tanks it I topped off the tank with pump gas several times while driving it on the street. It seemed to work for a couple of weeks which proves that I only needed the lead or a minimum octane boost to keep the engine happy.
I wish they still made gas like that at an affordable price.
Posted By: Challenger 1
Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel - 09/23/13 05:04 PM
No it don't smell the same, not even close.
Posted By: Crizila
Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel - 09/23/13 08:45 PM
Sorry for the confusion. I thought this was a thread about octane #'S, not - smell. I ( or someone ) must be on the wrong web sight.
Posted By: B3422W5
Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel - 09/23/13 08:53 PM
Quote:
Sorry for the confusion. I thought this was a thread about octane #'S, not - smell. I ( or someone ) must be on the wrong web sight.
You came to the right place......lol
I actually started the thread because my little bro insists on thinking he needs 110 fuel in his 9.5 compression 360 n/a motor. I tried telling im it might negatively effect his performance, but he continues to run the stuff because he likes the smell of the stuff crazy...yep.....but if I can convince him his car will run better without it, may wean him of it.
Posted By: all spooled up
Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel - 09/23/13 08:58 PM
have him install some 14 to 1 pistons then he will need it
Posted By: B3422W5
Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel - 09/23/13 09:03 PM
Quote:
have him install some 14 to 1 pistons then he will need it
Good idea, and he already has a 3/4 race cam in it
Posted By: all spooled up
Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel - 09/23/13 09:10 PM
Posted By: B3422W5
Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel - 09/23/13 09:11 PM
Quote:
3/4 race cam 9.5 1 comp 
Yea...and then some 
Posted By: dOc !
Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel - 09/23/13 09:19 PM
....a lite car with a big gear ...open headers ? .... he could ALMOST drink a case of beer and tinkle in the tank and THAT is all that is needed !! .... he likes the smell of race gas ? ...
... why doesn't he just set his wallet ON FIRE !!
Posted By: dogdays
Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel - 09/23/13 09:31 PM
You can't fix stupid!
R.
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel - 09/24/13 01:56 PM
I have an idea... we need a lightbulb over the head icon... NOBODY STEAL this from me now. So they make gas perfume in grape cherry, watermellon why not race fuel smell? huh? whatda y'all think? I could sell it to the OPs bro right??? whop else is in for a can??? now to go regester my plan, shoot I bet I can retire by next week.
Posted By: CHAPPER
Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel - 09/24/13 03:02 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Why in the world wouldn't he go make a couple runs on 93 octane? He could even put a dash of grape fuel fragrance from Summit, smells like race fuel, I've used it a couple times for car shows and car cruises.
It's my little brother... He won't listen to anything I tell him.
Most of the time he just likes firing it up in his garage, rapping on the gas pedal, and sniffing race gas fumes.... Would be sad if it wasn't true
The smell of Cam 2 is very addictive, there is nothing wrong with your brother just because he likes to fire up the motor to get his cam2 fix,I have done it before and I am ok.
Testing in California has shown that "breathing fumes from racing fuels may cause hair loss".... 
Posted By: Crizila
Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel - 09/24/13 03:21 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
Why in the world wouldn't he go make a couple runs on 93 octane? He could even put a dash of grape fuel fragrance from Summit, smells like race fuel, I've used it a couple times for car shows and car cruises.
It's my little brother... He won't listen to anything I tell him.
Most of the time he just likes firing it up in his garage, rapping on the gas pedal, and sniffing race gas fumes.... Would be sad if it wasn't true
The smell of Cam 2 is very addictive, there is nothing wrong with your brother just because he likes to fire up the motor to get his cam2 fix,I have done it before and I am ok.
Testing in California has shown that "breathing fumes from racing fuels may cause hair loss"....
I guess that explains my reseeding hair line. 
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel - 09/24/13 03:28 PM
Posted By: Dunnuck Racing
Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel - 09/24/13 05:58 PM
I have talked a few customers and friends out of 110 and into pump 93. One guy has been running 93 for several years now and won a track championship at 131 on it. On an 11 to one 455 Olds another customer gained 10 horsepower on the dyno with 93.
If you get into more of high rpm engine,race fuel can gain a little with low compression because it releases its energy faster .
I'll try the two on this 8.8 to 1 360 in a day or so and let you know just for the fun of it.
Keith
Posted By: B3422W5
Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel - 09/24/13 08:17 PM
Cool, Keith.
He has a little black 66 dart Gt with the factory white bucket seat interior.
360, eddies, 750 Holley, excellerator, 1/58 headers 904 and 8 inch.
Weighs 3300 with him, all steel, no fiberglass. Cam is a way to big
258@50 solid with his low compression motor. Car sounds like a healthy super stocker in the water box.
been 11.38 with it but no better since the heads were done
Posted By: 6pak2go
Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel - 09/24/13 11:14 PM
http://www.summitracing.com/search/produ...el%20FragrancesAt $12.97/4oz bottle, wouldn't it just be easier to buy a gallon of race fuel?
And those fragrance names, ROFL!
Posted By: fullmetaljacket
Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel - 09/25/13 01:37 AM
I have 12.5 compression with aluminum 72 cc heads in my street motor and run straight 110 Sunoco, though I think it could be a tad faster with 108.
When cats here mention 93 pump gas, do they really mean the actual 93 octane pump gas that comes from the pumps at the local Mobil, BP, Sunoco, Shell? If it is, I suspect many of you may at some point have problems stemming from all that ethenal that floats in the stuff. that is why I strictly use 110. I wouldn't put pump gas in my Mini-bike.
An alternative to this would be 94 unleaded and 100 unleaded Sunoco/VP I guess.
Posted By: D-50
Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel - 09/25/13 02:49 AM
Quote:
I have 12.5 compression with aluminum 72 cc heads in my street motor and run straight 110 Sunoco, though I think it could be a tad faster with 108.
When cats here mention 93 pump gas, do they really mean the actual 93 octane pump gas that comes from the pumps at the local Mobil, BP, Sunoco, Shell? If it is, I suspect many of you may at some point have problems stemming from all that ethenal that floats in the stuff. that is why I strictly use 110. I wouldn't put pump gas in my Mini-bike.
An alternative to this would be 94 unleaded and 100 unleaded Sunoco/VP I guess.
I use the 93 super unleaded they sell at my local BP,Chevron and Texaco. Have been for years and have had zero issues.
Posted By: mopar dave
Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel - 09/25/13 04:34 AM
yes, shell v-power 93. I was told by vp fuels its the only pump gas with out all the other junk in it. smells like race fuel when it burns. don't know just whats in it, but its the best pump gas around here and if your in Michigan, Kroger gas seems to be the same thing as their affiliated with shell and have the same race fuel smell. been runnin it all summer and at the track,no issues with 11.3:1 compression(195 cranking) 36* timing. look it up on the web,theirs plenty written about it.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel - 09/25/13 05:13 AM
I'm running PUMP GAS 87 octane moose piss in my 10.2:1
416 engine... the cam will do wonders to you pressure
Posted By: Mr.Yuck
Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel - 09/25/13 01:46 PM
Quote:
yes, shell v-power 93. I was told by vp fuels its the only pump gas with out all the other junk in it. smells like race fuel when it burns. don't know just whats in it, but its the best pump gas around here and if your in Michigan, Kroger gas seems to be the same thing as their affiliated with shell and have the same race fuel smell. been runnin it all summer and at the track,no issues with 11.3:1 compression(195 cranking) 36* timing. look it up on the web,theirs plenty written about it.
Bee Ess NO pump gas 93 smells like race fuel. I've run them all. They all produce the same results. I usually run either BP 93 or Shell depending on what side of the street I'm on. We also have an Exxon and Sunoco I use from time to time.
I will say this last year I had a gallon and a half of 110 left and boy the lawnmower loved it.. smelled like race day as I was cutting the grass....lol
Posted By: Challenger 1
Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel - 09/25/13 02:36 PM
Quote:
Quote:
yes, shell v-power 93. I was told by vp fuels its the only pump gas with out all the other junk in it. smells like race fuel when it burns. don't know just whats in it, but its the best pump gas around here and if your in Michigan, Kroger gas seems to be the same thing as their affiliated with shell and have the same race fuel smell. been runnin it all summer and at the track,no issues with 11.3:1 compression(195 cranking) 36* timing. look it up on the web,theirs plenty written about it.
Bee Ess NO pump gas 93 smells like race fuel. I've run them all. They all produce the same results. I usually run either BP 93 or Shell depending on what side of the street I'm on. We also have an Exxon and Sunoco I use from time to time.
I will say this last year I had a gallon and a half of 110 left and boy the lawnmower loved it.. smelled like race day as I was cutting the grass....lol
When I put race gas in my mower, it shoots all the clippings into my neighbors yard. lol
Posted By: mopar dave
Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel - 09/25/13 03:48 PM
well, then you haven't ran the gas that I use. i'v been acused of runnin race fuel a few times. I know it has 11% alcohol and toluene. propably why it has a race fuel smell. look it up on the web, has a lot of good stuff in it.
Posted By: an8sec70cuda
Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel - 09/25/13 04:08 PM
Quote:
well, then you haven't ran the gas that I use. i'v been acused of runnin race fuel a few times. I know it has 11% alcohol and toluene. propably why it has a race fuel smell. look it up on the web, has a lot of good stuff in it.
It may be different up there, but the Shell V power 93 down here that I use occasionally in my car definitely doesn't smell like race fuel.
I've been just as fast at the track w/ no name premium 93 from Sparky's Fireworks as I have w/ Shell, Amoco, BP, Sunoco, etc. Went 9.65 at 140 mph back in April this year w/ gas from the fireworks store.
My car slows a tenth and a little over 1 mph on VP 110, but the only thing I changed was the fuel. Never tried playing w/ timing or anything else.
Posted By: mopar dave
Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel - 09/25/13 07:14 PM
it may be different in other locations. I also lost time with vp110. I advanced timing with it too, but never gained back what I lost with the vp.
Posted By: BobR
Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel - 09/25/13 07:48 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Why in the world wouldn't he go make a couple runs on 93 octane? He could even put a dash of grape fuel fragrance from Summit, smells like race fuel, I've used it a couple times for car shows and car cruises.
No it does not smell any where close to real race gas. I use the stuff too some times, the stuff from summit is weak. Even the good stuff don't smell like race fuel.
I have ran 110 leaded race gas in a 10.5-1 340 since 1983.
Then I switched to 92 octane about 6 years ago because I drive my car a lot now a days and I can't afford race gas even though I sell it at work. And I'm here to tell you the race gas runs way better in in a low compression motor and cooler.
Plus I have ran straight race gas in in dirt bikes, jets skis, chain saws, weedeaters, 2 stroke dirt bikes love it, generators and many other motors and they all ran much better on race gas. I would mix it half and half with 91 unleaded most of the time, because full strength is not always needed. But I have burned a bunch of it straight and it won't hurt even the weakest motor.
I have been on camping trips to the lake, we ride jet ski/ wave runners during the day and dirt bikes at night. I would bring plenty of mixed race fuel for our 2 stroke dirt bikes.. I would always provide some gas for the jet skis and everyone and I mean everyone would be fired up how good there jet skis ran with it. To the point that I sell lot's of race gas to bike and water craft people now a days.
Everything runs better on race gas, I'm sure.
My 71 stock 340 sure as hell does run better with race gas.
I ran straight race gas in a 87 dodge ramcharger with a 360 quradrajet carb at graval rama here in town and my truck ran the quickest on straight race gas at the 300' sand drags. Then I ran the same ramcharger on race gas and nitrous oxide and it ran 14.20 in the quarter on asphalt with stock 360. I have done plenty of back to back testing years ago to see if it really did help and it always helped. Time clocks don't lie.
My buddy has a dyno in his engine building shop. Race gas always makes more power. Pump gas is designed for almost everything but performance. Race gas is designed exactly for performance. There are differences in race gas. One might be better than another.
Posted By: BobR
Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel - 09/25/13 07:52 PM
Quote:
Quote:
well, then you haven't ran the gas that I use. i'v been acused of runnin race fuel a few times. I know it has 11% alcohol and toluene. propably why it has a race fuel smell. look it up on the web, has a lot of good stuff in it.
It may be different up there, but the Shell V power 93 down here that I use occasionally in my car definitely doesn't smell like race fuel.
I've been just as fast at the track w/ no name premium 93 from Sparky's Fireworks as I have w/ Shell, Amoco, BP, Sunoco, etc. Went 9.65 at 140 mph back in April this year w/ gas from the fireworks store.
My car slows a tenth and a little over 1 mph on VP 110, but the only thing I changed was the fuel. Never tried playing w/ timing or anything else.
In California the gasoline is produced to a very specific recipe and there is virtually no difference between brands. They even will exchange fuel from brand to brand when convenient. This is expecially true with independent gas stations. There may be 4 different kinds of fuel in one tank.
Posted By: an8sec70cuda
Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel - 09/25/13 08:00 PM
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
well, then you haven't ran the gas that I use. i'v been acused of runnin race fuel a few times. I know it has 11% alcohol and toluene. propably why it has a race fuel smell. look it up on the web, has a lot of good stuff in it.
It may be different up there, but the Shell V power 93 down here that I use occasionally in my car definitely doesn't smell like race fuel.
I've been just as fast at the track w/ no name premium 93 from Sparky's Fireworks as I have w/ Shell, Amoco, BP, Sunoco, etc. Went 9.65 at 140 mph back in April this year w/ gas from the fireworks store.
My car slows a tenth and a little over 1 mph on VP 110, but the only thing I changed was the fuel. Never tried playing w/ timing or anything else.
In California the gasoline is produced to a very specific recipe and there is virtually no difference between brands. They even will exchange fuel from brand to brand when convenient. This is expecially true with independent gas stations. There may be 4 different kinds of fuel in one tank.
Yessir. I used to work w/ a fella that drove a fuel delivery truck...said they used to fill tanks at several different stations (different brands) from the same truck/tanker all the time.
Posted By: Dart451
Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel - 09/25/13 08:42 PM
I gained 7 more hp using 93 over 110. Dyno proven
This is on 700+ hp engine
Posted By: mopar dave
Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel - 09/26/13 04:24 AM
yes they do deliver same fuel to different brand stations to a degree, but I bet you'll never find Sunoco gas in the tanks at a shell station or shell gas in the tanks of a Sunoco station. that fuel is blended differently.
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel - 09/26/13 04:59 AM
If I recall the number right anything over 32 degrees
you start loosing efficiency so if your at 40* your
fuel is burning too slow and needs to be less octane so
you can pull it back... BUT the heads are important
here... a head can be more efficient in itself so
it comes down to what is efficient for your set up...
Don... I'm sorry your brother has this smell fetish
but he needs to get over it and start making power
with less octane... I will say he will make more power
with less octane and it could be moose piss 87 if
he buys from the same place all the time so the tune
can stay the same
Posted By: slantzilla
Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel - 09/26/13 07:33 AM
Quote:
yes they do deliver same fuel to different brand stations to a degree, but I bet you'll never find Sunoco gas in the tanks at a shell station or shell gas in the tanks of a Sunoco station. that fuel is blended differently.
My cousin used to haul fuel out of the depot up here. All brands start as the same gas, they add the additives as it is loaded into the tanker. He said you would see lights on the panel for each separate additive. Marathon had the most lights on when filling.
Posted By: mopar dave
Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel - 09/26/13 03:23 PM
engine masters has a Pontiac build that the builder says a cylindrical dish piston is more efficient therefore requiring less timing. my pistons have a D dish. so maybe the piston top have as much effect on timing as the chamber shape?
Posted By: MR_P_BODY
Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel - 09/26/13 03:51 PM
Quote:
engine masters has a Pontiac build that the builder says a cylindrical dish piston is more efficient therefore requiring less timing. my pistons have a D dish. so maybe the piston top have as much effect on timing as the chamber shape?
The piston top makes a difference also.. its just a
matter of how easy and efficient the whole thing burns
Posted By: dogdays
Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel - 09/26/13 04:17 PM
I just read that article and that figure 8 pattern on top of the piston is no cylindrical dish! Steve Dulcich, how did you let him get away with that?
On to the topic of piston top shape. One of the greats said that we need to remember the top of the piston is the bottom of the combustion chamber.
Larry Widmer, from his writings and work, believes there is a lot of power in the piston top. He also mentions shaping the chamber to push the gases toward the exhaust valve and leave as little clearance as possible around the intake valve.
One of the points that impressed me early in my study of spark ignition engines is that flame speed is relatively slow, in the same order of magnitude as the piston speed. It seems most of the really serious work of the past decades has been aimed at completing the combustion event more rapidly. The major way this is done is by use of squish.
R.
Posted By: mopar dave
Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel - 09/26/13 05:00 PM
i noticed that too, but he did mention machining the piston tops. I was thinking maybe that's what they looked like in the pic before he machined them. what piston top shape would the indy 360-1 chamber require?
Posted By: dogdays
Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel - 09/26/13 07:27 PM
No, that's how they looked in the engine as he was putting the heads on. I understand not messing with the interviewee, but that whole line about the cylindrical dish being best is so wrong. Maybe that's why I don't do interviews and articles!
R.
PS, Steve, if you eventually read this, kudos to you for generally getting the English right. I recently saw a hunting magazine article where there must have been 15 mistakes on the first page!
Posted By: mopar dave
Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel - 09/27/13 02:28 PM
doesn't someone proof read that stuff before its printed? I see these mistakes all the time. the indy max block article had 2 different strokes listed 4.125 and 4.150.
Posted By: Dunnuck Racing
Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel - 09/29/13 01:44 AM
I finally did some testing today,8.8 to 1 360 with stock Edelbrock heads and a hydraulic cam. I tested all 3 grades of fuel from a local station that had the best 93 octane premium when I tested several a couple of years ago.
87 octane was the worst,110 VP wasn't far behind .
The 93 made less power than the mid grade,which I believe is 89 octane R/M2 I forgot to check that.
Overall best was the midgrade . I tested each for best power A/F and timing .
I will print some sheets out later,but the average difference between the premium and 110 after tuning was only around5 hp. Low speed torque was where a lot of difference was noticed .
Keith
Posted By: Dean_Kuzluzski
Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel - 09/29/13 12:50 PM
I usually try not to post on this particuar forum since I'm a nobody............
but my understanding of low vs high octane gas is that the lower octane doesn't necessarily "burn faster" but is set-off/ignites sooner due to volatility. Meaning, when there is high compression the molecules being packed so tightly, low octane will not handle it as well (detonate on its own accord) as what higher octane will sustain. So high octane has a higher threshold than low compression motor even needs or will put upon it, hence the waste of $$$.
Once ignited, the burn rate is the same.
Posted By: Dunnuck Racing
Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel - 10/02/13 12:24 AM
Pretty noticeable gains from best to worst
Keith
Posted By: Dunnuck Racing
Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel - 10/02/13 12:28 AM
And torque
Keith
Posted By: Streetwize
Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel - 10/02/13 08:20 PM
Interesting because mid-grade is generally a blend of the (87) regular and the (93) premium, there is no (not that I'm aware of anyplace I've seen) a seperate tank underneath the station for mid-grade, it's blended on-site at the pump(s).
Posted By: mopardamo
Re: Running a very low compression Engine on race fuel - 10/02/13 08:51 PM
Seems normal to me from the standpoint that any particular engine has a certain fuel it likes best. A blend might provide the best characteristics for a combo. If all other variables of tuning are optimized then its just a matter of fuel performance in the chamber for that combo. Just looking at octane numbers may not give us a total picture of what an engine performs best with.
Damon