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Advice on cam for 440 #1501458
09/14/13 08:23 PM
09/14/13 08:23 PM
Joined: Oct 2006
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Canada
shawnmd Offline OP
member
shawnmd  Offline OP
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Canada
FIL just purchased a 440 that was built many years ago, but was hardly used. Spent many years tucked away in garage. FIL tore it apart and found it is bored 30 over, with Keith Black kb146 pistons with stock rods. The heads are stock but have been ported and polished. He hasn't CC'd the head yet, but estimates it would be around 10.3 to 1 compression.

The car is a 1970 Superbee with 4 speed and 3.91 gears. He is looking for a hot street motor and needs to choose the correct cam, intake, carb setup. Hoping to be around 500 hp, but also for it to be manageable on the street. He was looking into the Hughes Whiplash cam, but the compression ratio may be too high.

Any suggestions?

Last edited by shawnmd; 09/14/13 08:33 PM.
Re: Advice on cam for 440 [Re: shawnmd] #1501459
09/14/13 08:50 PM
09/14/13 08:50 PM
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Central NC
gch Offline
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Cam depends on what the actual compression is and what kind of rockers he is going to run.Make lots of power with a good solid cam but plenty of good hydraulics too.
It would be hard to beat a holley 850 dp on either a street dominator intake or an rpm intake.
If it has power brakes you will have to pick a cam with enough vacuum also.

Re: Advice on cam for 440 [Re: shawnmd] #1501460
09/14/13 09:36 PM
09/14/13 09:36 PM
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NEW JERSEY
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dynamite Offline
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Think you should contact a cam grinder ,directly ,,give them your specs and let them design a cam for you..,,ie: Bullit,,Hughes,, Crower ..etc

Re: Advice on cam for 440 [Re: shawnmd] #1501461
09/14/13 10:14 PM
09/14/13 10:14 PM
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Brookeville, Md
Mr.Yuck Offline
Not enough dumb comments...yet
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RPM intake, 850HP carb, cam.... something in the 560ish range. Of course a 6-pack would be much better.


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Re: Advice on cam for 440 [Re: Mr.Yuck] #1501462
09/14/13 10:40 PM
09/14/13 10:40 PM
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ahy Offline
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What type of rockers does it have now?

Re: Advice on cam for 440 [Re: ahy] #1501463
09/14/13 11:46 PM
09/14/13 11:46 PM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
Circle Track
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An RPM intake if the height will fit. One of the holley clones with the adjustable systems. As said talk to a reputable cam grinder (have all the info/specs on hand) & CC the heads/find the exact scr


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Re: Advice on cam for 440 [Re: shawnmd] #1501464
09/15/13 09:21 AM
09/15/13 09:21 AM
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Prospect, PA
BSB67 Offline
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500 hp and street manners. How serious is he about these two criteria? How would he know if it has 500 hp? To him, is "it should make 500 hp and it feels strong" good enough, or will he disappointed if it does not run 11.50s at 116 mph?

In the same regard, what is "manageable on the street" mean to him? This is such a personal thing.

The good news: his goal seems reasonable.

If he is serious about max power, there are a few key items before he gets to the carb and intake...cam, heads, and compression.

Need to know exactly what he has for compression ratio, 10.3 is a pretty good number. He might need to do some work on the combustion chambers to build quench with that piston, and GOOD head work. Add a nice mid-sized cam, like the MP .557 solid. Add SD and 850 dp....done. This would be Ron's (383man) engine, a proven combo. Nothing hard about this, but the details matter, and there is cost associated with those details.

If the 500 hp is not critically important, slap it together, add a 509 like hydraulic cam, SD and 850. Still a nice ride IMO.

Last edited by BSB67; 09/15/13 09:22 AM.
Re: Advice on cam for 440 [Re: BSB67] #1501465
09/15/13 09:41 AM
09/15/13 09:41 AM
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West Tennessee
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rbstroker Offline
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Definitely need to measure the static compression ratio exactly for the cam grinder. Dynamic compression ratios will determine the fuel octane requirements.


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Re: Advice on cam for 440 [Re: rbstroker] #1501466
09/15/13 11:38 AM
09/15/13 11:38 AM
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Frostbitefalls MN (Rocky&Bullw...
gregsdart Offline
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You can use this online compression calculator on BIGBOYZ web site to help pick the cam.
http://www.bigboyzcycles.com/TwinCamComp.htm
The intake closing event will have a direct effect on low speed performance, and matching the cam to the actual compression to get about 190 cranking compression ought to put you in the ball park. A 9.5 compression motor will work with a very short cam and those iron heads, and as the compression goes up (10.5?) the cam size needs to increase to bleed off some cylinder pressure to keep the motor happy, which also makes for a lot more power up top. I did run the numbers on a combo with 10.50 compression, trying to run pump gas. A cam with 240 degrees at .050 intake duration, in a 106 would get close, if 196 cranking compression is low enough for your pumpgas and altitude you run at. That much cam would also make a fairly hot street motor to boot, still having some low end to work with.

Last edited by gregsdart; 09/15/13 11:50 AM.

8..603 156 mph best, 2905 lbs 549, indy 572-13, alky
Re: Advice on cam for 440 [Re: rbstroker] #1501467
09/15/13 11:01 PM
09/15/13 11:01 PM
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Desert Tracker
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HYPER8oSoNic Offline
top fuel
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Quote:

Definitely need to measure the static compression ratio exactly for the cam grinder. Dynamic compression ratios will determine the fuel octane requirements.




This is a KEY step in building a motor (in your case: 500 HP). Once figured out, the cam parameters will be set for the goal. As far as induction: an 800/850 on an SD, Eddy RPM or even a WELL-tuned Eddy 6-pack will get you there. The other important steps are, paying real close attention to detail and (K)eeping (I)t (S)traightforward and (S)imple the KISS Principle! Go with what's PROVEN and DON'T experiment! In your case though, I'd make darn sure about the chamber
cc size and pay attention to the clearances, especially the quench (10.3 to 1 you/previous owner, estimated) since those KB146's have a step pad to help out with quench. Stock heads (2.08/1.74) aren't bad, but with porting and polishing?..2.14's/1.81's would have been somewhat better, especially with a competition valve job. Other than heads and intake, increased oiling capacity, hotter/recurved ELECTRONIC ignition setup and a free-flowing exhaust will do wonders. He should have already setup the chassis to handle this newfound power. Just as a note, 4-speeds aren't nearly as forgiving as
automatics. Food for thought!!



"Stupidity is Ignorance on Steroids"
"Yeah, it's hopped to over 160" (quote by Kowalski in the movie Vanishing Point 1970 - Cupid Productions)
Re: Advice on cam for 440 [Re: HYPER8oSoNic] #1501468
09/15/13 11:11 PM
09/15/13 11:11 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
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San Angelo, Texas, U.S.A.
1968RR Offline
top fuel
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I have a similar set-up but with Indy SR heads (OOTB). You might consider Comp's XE295HL grind (hydraulic, flat tappet cam). Comp's XE cams are noisy , but the cam works well with the 850 cfm Holley DP and the Indy dual-plane intake that I have. As a previous poster mentioned, the Edelbrock RPM intake is another good one to consider.


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Re: Advice on cam for 440 [Re: HYPER8oSoNic] #1501469
09/15/13 11:18 PM
09/15/13 11:18 PM
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VA.
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mosweethemi Offline
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HELLO I WOULD PUT A GOOD MOPAR CAM A 484 OR A 509 THATS ALL YOU NEED. BESTED CAM FOR A BIG BLOCK MOPAR. MY A REAL MOPAR MAN

Re: Advice on cam for 440 [Re: mosweethemi] #1501470
09/16/13 12:38 AM
09/16/13 12:38 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 751
Hermiston Oregon
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mopar_leaner Offline
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if you have a true 10.3-1 CR, then I would use a RPM or SP M1, 850 DP holley and a MP .557 solid cam. and A 3200-3500 converter.


( it takes a Mopar, to beat a Mopar!
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Re: Advice on cam for 440 [Re: BSB67] #1501471
09/16/13 05:49 PM
09/16/13 05:49 PM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
3
383man Offline
Too Many Posts
383man  Offline
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Quote:

500 hp and street manners. How serious is he about these two criteria? How would he know if it has 500 hp? To him, is "it should make 500 hp and it feels strong" good enough, or will he disappointed if it does not run 11.50s at 116 mph?

In the same regard, what is "manageable on the street" mean to him? This is such a personal thing.

The good news: his goal seems reasonable.

If he is serious about max power, there are a few key items before he gets to the carb and intake...cam, heads, and compression.

Need to know exactly what he has for compression ratio, 10.3 is a pretty good number. He might need to do some work on the combustion chambers to build quench with that piston, and GOOD head work. Add a nice mid-sized cam, like the MP .557 solid. Add SD and 850 dp....done. This would be Ron's (383man) engine, a proven combo. Nothing hard about this, but the details matter, and there is cost associated with those details.

If the 500 hp is not critically important, slap it together, add a 509 like hydraulic cam, SD and 850. Still a nice ride IMO.




Thank you for the kind words. Yes my old 440 combo was a basic iron head streetable combo that probably made about 500 hp. It was a stock crank and rod 440 with .030 KB pistons. I used 906 heads I ported myself and the pistons had quench pads on them so I set it up for about .046 quench and it was 10.0 comp. I did use the MP .557 cam and the Holley Street Dominator intake with an 850 DP. It was in my 3700 lb 63 with 4.30 gears and 30" tall tires. It was an auto with a Dynamic 9.5 converter that flashed about 4200 but drives great on the street. The best it ran was 11.49 @ 116 on a good day. It usually ran from 11.50's to 11.80's depending on the weather.

I could also recomend a cam and then you might have 10 different cams to choose from. As many on here are pretty good at picking cams but the best you can do is call a cam company and let a pro go over your specs and set a cam up for you. I feel I know cams pretty good but I still had a pro who does this every day pick a cam for my eng in my car now. I had Dwayne Porter spec and grind a cam for my combo after he got all the specs on my eng and he is real good. Good luck what ever you decide but if you would want to call Dwayne I have his phone #. Ron

Last edited by 383man; 09/16/13 05:53 PM.






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