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Single Stage vs. Clear Coat Paint #1495369 09/02/13 11:57 PM 09/02/13 11:57 PM
Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 156 Detroit, Mi M michiganhotrod1 OP member
michiganhotrod1 OP member M Joined: Mar 2008 Posts: 156 Detroit, Mi	Hi all; I did a search on this, but did not come up with much, so I hope this question is not a repeat. I will have to repaint my 66 Chrysler T&C wagon. While a clean, preserved 46,000 mile car (loaded, air, all power, 440 TNT, etc,), there is just too much used car and age trash in the paint. It is a non-metallic, RR1 Daffodil Yellow. I like the look of the wagon's original enamel paint (hood and top are still nice), and some of the clear coat paint jobs I have seen seem to have a funny tone or hue to them. I asked my paint guy to look at single stage paint, and he thinks I am crazy, says I will like the clear coat better, etc. I know this is true for metallic, but what is the group opinion on Clear for non-metallic? Is there any trick to getting an OEM look to vintage colors in clear coat? I have seen some negative comments in Mopar magazines on using clear coat paint on show cars; what is the general view of this critique? Any advice or opinions are appreciated. Thanks, Mark 7837414-IMG_0161.jpg (203 downloads)

Re: Single Stage vs. Clear Coat Paint [Re: michiganhotrod1] #1495370 09/03/13 12:22 AM 09/03/13 12:22 AM
Joined: Sep 2004 Posts: 654 MN astrobuf mopar
astrobuf mopar Joined: Sep 2004 Posts: 654 MN	The only real advantage to single stage is that it is cheap. Personally, I like Base/Clear paint for restos for durability. As a resto, you will have the car for a good long time. Lots of scuffs and scratches occur to driver level vehicles. If it's a Base/Clear paint job, you can often sand/buff out the defect without much work. A single stage paint on the other hand will send you back to the body shop in most cases. As to the controversy re: single stage vs BC/CC, I don't see much difference between a waxed single stage and a BC/CC paint job, so take advantage of 40 years of advaced paint technology and go BC/CC. Astrobuf So, are you really a Rocket Scientist?

Re: Single Stage vs. Clear Coat Paint [Re: michiganhotrod1] #1495371 09/03/13 01:01 AM 09/03/13 01:01 AM
Joined: Feb 2012 Posts: 4,454 Morristown Tn. 7 71birdJ68 master
71birdJ68 master 7 Joined: Feb 2012 Posts: 4,454 Morristown Tn.	I think that on a solid color bc/cc looks cheap. Single looks more expensive.

Re: Single Stage vs. Clear Coat Paint [Re: michiganhotrod1] #1495372 09/03/13 01:09 AM 09/03/13 01:09 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 8,016 Polson, MT DoctorDiff master
DoctorDiff master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 8,016 Polson, MT	I prefer the look of single stage paint for all solid colors. Contact info

Re: Single Stage vs. Clear Coat Paint [Re: 71birdJ68] #1495373 09/03/13 01:11 AM 09/03/13 01:11 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 42,714 Spokane Washington ScottSmith_Harms Mr Wizzard
ScottSmith_Harms Mr Wizzard Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 42,714 Spokane Washington	Quote: If it's a Base/Clear paint job, you can often sand/buff out the defect without much work. A single stage paint on the other hand will send you back to the body shop in most cases. Actually I'd say it's the opposite, you can sand and blend a small isolated spot of single stage but you have to sand the clear off an entire panel to get the best blend with B/C (and obvious mis matched B/C repairs are VERY common based on what I've seen).

Re: Single Stage vs. Clear Coat Paint [Re: ScottSmith_Harms] #1495374 09/03/13 02:11 AM 09/03/13 02:11 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 29,654 Hamtramck, PA A Alaskan_TA Fluffy Balladeer
Alaskan_TA Fluffy Balladeer A Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 29,654 Hamtramck, PA	Clear seems to 'wash out' the true color. Hemi Orange starts to look like Go Mango as one example. If you want to replicate the original color, use the original paint style.

Re: Single Stage vs. Clear Coat Paint [Re: Alaskan_TA] #1495375 09/03/13 09:57 AM 09/03/13 09:57 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 12,157 Benton, IL. D DaveRS23 Special needs idiot
DaveRS23 Special needs idiot D Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 12,157 Benton, IL.	Quote: Clear seems to 'wash out' the true color. Hemi Orange starts to look like Go Mango as one example. If you want to replicate the original color, use the original paint style. Replicate the original color? You mean as in match? I need the name of your paint supplier. It takes an enormous amount of effort anymore to get paint even close to matching the original color. Even with single stage, today's paint has nothing in common with paints of 40+ years ago. Single stage paint today is as different from the original paint as base/clear is. My personal experience is that success or failure in this depends more on the painter and his supplier, rather than the type of paint used. The painter's experience with a particular product and his willingness to experiment with materials until he gets it right is much more important than what he uses. Especially if he doesn't have as much experience with the other type of paint. And the same holds true of his paint supplier, too. Even the amount of gloss and texture will take some experimenting if you want that to be like the car's original because today's paint will tend to be much glossier and smoother. I would take your painter's recommendation on what type of paint he wants to paint. He is the key to your success more than the type of paint is. Master, again and still

Re: Single Stage vs. Clear Coat Paint [Re: DaveRS23] #1495376 09/03/13 10:02 AM 09/03/13 10:02 AM
Joined: Mar 2004 Posts: 2,963 Wisconsin Stewpar master
Stewpar master Joined: Mar 2004 Posts: 2,963 Wisconsin	Quote: Quote: Clear seems to 'wash out' the true color. Hemi Orange starts to look like Go Mango as one example. If you want to replicate the original color, use the original paint style. Replicate the original color? You mean as in match? I need the name of your paint supplier. It takes an enormous amount of effort anymore to get paint even close to matching the original color. Even with single stage, today's paint has nothing in common with paints of 40+ years ago. Single stage paint today is as different from the original paint as base/clear is. My personal experience is that success or failure in this depends more on the painter and his supplier, rather than the type of paint used. The painter's experience with a particular product and his willingness to experiment with materials until he gets it right is much more important than what he uses. Especially if he doesn't have as much experience with the other type of paint. And the same holds true of his paint supplier, too. Even the amount of gloss and texture will take some experimenting if you want that to be like the car's original because today's paint will tend to be much glossier and smoother. I would take your painter's recommendation on what type of paint he wants to paint. He is the key to your success more than the type of paint is. X2! My vote is for PPG B/C! The last car I did, the supplier made three different trips to the shop with samples and finally nailed it! Admiration For Multiple Carburetor Vehicles...

Re: Single Stage vs. Clear Coat Paint [Re: Alaskan_TA] #1495377 09/03/13 10:05 AM 09/03/13 10:05 AM
Joined: Oct 2011 Posts: 768 Dry Heat AZ A AAR#2 super stock
AAR#2 super stock A Joined: Oct 2011 Posts: 768 Dry Heat AZ	I struggled a bit with this too, single stage seems to have a deeper color saturation than clears, largely due to the way light is reflected off the clears. I was fortunae enough to see two black cars side by side at my painters, one single stage, the other BC-CC. Both cars looked amazing but the single stage seemed to have better color saturation. Single stage is not cheap, I could have saved money going BC-CC, but after seeing the difference went with single stage. Lemon Twist, no regrets!

Re: Single Stage vs. Clear Coat Paint [Re: ScottSmith_Harms] #1495378 09/03/13 10:12 AM 09/03/13 10:12 AM
Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 1,572 Jacksonville Florida elitecustombody pro stock
elitecustombody pro stock Joined: Dec 2007 Posts: 1,572 Jacksonville Florida	Quote: Quote: If it's a Base/Clear paint job, you can often sand/buff out the defect without much work. A single stage paint on the other hand will send you back to the body shop in most cases. Actually I'd say it's the opposite, you can sand and blend a small isolated spot of single stage but you have to sand the clear off an entire panel to get the best blend with B/C (and obvious mis matched B/C repairs are VERY common based on what I've seen). I don't have a problem doing spot repair on either paint system. Spotted after fire damage repair [image]https://sphotos-b-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn2/v/p480x480/1148364_436660693117256_2045767009_n.jpg?oh=e38c2e65991ebba53502ab6ce494b2a3&oe=522852AF[/image] Shaved side markers and spotted both sides of the rear bumper on this [image]https://sphotos-b-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/p480x480/1234110_434655623317763_738818628_n.jpg[/image] This bumper was spotted after repairing a tear over a foot long [image]https://sphotos-b-atl.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-prn1/v/1232469_434469110003081_675240408_n.jpg?oh=2d4e876fdcdfd1630160c13a5f89e63b&oe=5227DC5A[/image] Last edited by elitecustombody; 09/03/13 10:19 AM.

Re: Single Stage vs. Clear Coat Paint [Re: michiganhotrod1] #1495379 09/03/13 10:29 AM 09/03/13 10:29 AM
Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 1,179 Canada D demon super stock
demon super stock D Joined: Feb 2006 Posts: 1,179 Canada	If you want it to look original go single stage. If you want the show car look go base/clear. Personally I think base/clear makes restored cars look wrong

Re: Single Stage vs. Clear Coat Paint [Re: demon] #1495380 09/04/13 12:27 AM 09/04/13 12:27 AM
Joined: Mar 2011 Posts: 1,655 Cut and Shoot, TX kentj340 top fuel
kentj340 top fuel Joined: Mar 2011 Posts: 1,655 Cut and Shoot, TX	Several good discussions about acrylic vs. urethane and more are here: http://www.hemmings.com/editorial/resto_tips.html I would really like to have "original" paint, but this is what scares me: "Many restorers cite the durability of urethane paints as their number one advantage and point out that acrylic enamel paints tend to last just five to 10 years on a car with normal use; after so long, the acrylics will fade, crack or peel. Urethane paints, on the other hand, seem to have indefinite lives when well-kept." I have zero interest in re-painting my car in 5 - 10 years. Sun damage to cars is measurably greater in southern states than northern. One tell tale example: here in Texas covered parking spaces are common for RVs in self storage facilities because customers demand the shade cover. In places above the Mason-Dixon line, pretty much no covers are erected in self storage facilities for RV parking due to low demand and poor ROI. If you don't see two dolphins, you need a vacation.

Re: Single Stage vs. Clear Coat Paint [Re: michiganhotrod1] #1495381 09/04/13 10:33 AM 09/04/13 10:33 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 12,157 Benton, IL. D DaveRS23 Special needs idiot
DaveRS23 Special needs idiot D Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 12,157 Benton, IL.	Let's be clear about one thing here. You simply cannot get anything like the "original" paint that was sprayed on our old cars. It doesn't exist and hasn't for decades. Between government regs, advances in chemistry and competitive pressures, today's single stage paint bears no resemblance to the single stage paint that was originally applied to our old cars. I am not saying that there is no difference in the final look between single stage and base/clear. I am just saying that modern single stage is very, very different from the "original" single stage. There are as many different ways to apply and finish out any given paint as there are different paints. And that, in my experience, is the difference. Without unique application and finish procedures, any single stage paint will look no more like the original paint finish than base/clear will. Today's paint can be applied to look very similar to the old paints, but it takes the skill and experience of the painter to replicate the look. He will have to manipulate the paint to achieve the look. No matter the type of paint. To replicate a 1966 paint finish with today's paint products will require a particular skill set. Not just anyone will get it right. And some guys will take more attempts than others. And some will have better luck with single stage and some with base/clear. Your satisfaction is more dependent on the painter than the paint. Pick your painter wisely, then let him pick his preferred product. Do not ignore your painter's advise on the best product and then expect him to get the best job out with something else. Either you trust him to get it right or you don't. I would change painters before I would insist on one using his second or third choice of paint. That would also make it much more difficult to get him to correct any dissatisfaction. Master, again and still

Re: Single Stage vs. Clear Coat Paint [Re: DaveRS23] #1495382 09/04/13 10:56 AM 09/04/13 10:56 AM
Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,436 Blair County,PA 62maxwgn master
62maxwgn master Joined: Jan 2003 Posts: 9,436 Blair County,PA	Single stage and it looks better than 90% of the black bc/cc I've seen. 7839204-Bill,s62wgn062.jpg (273 downloads)

Re: Single Stage vs. Clear Coat Paint [Re: michiganhotrod1] #1495383 09/08/13 10:53 AM 09/08/13 10:53 AM
Joined: May 2011 Posts: 78 NE PA,USA P pa340dart member
pa340dart member P Joined: May 2011 Posts: 78 NE PA,USA	Which system for 70 swinger Plumcrazy ?? I believe this was a metallic ??

Re: Single Stage vs. Clear Coat Paint [Re: michiganhotrod1] #1495384 09/08/13 09:52 PM 09/08/13 09:52 PM
Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 1,637 Florida G GMP440 top fuel
GMP440 top fuel G Joined: Feb 2003 Posts: 1,637 Florida	Back in 1990 I painted my 68' Coronet with single stage Imron. As stated in a previous post urethane lasts a long time. The paint on my Coronet is 23 years old and still looks good. It has that slight orange peel like that of the paint finishes , back in the day. 7844595-Coronet,rtfront.jpg (238 downloads) Last edited by GMP440; 09/08/13 09:54 PM.

Re: Single Stage vs. Clear Coat Paint [Re: GMP440] #1495385 09/10/13 09:44 AM 09/10/13 09:44 AM
Joined: Nov 2009 Posts: 2,177 ill D dennismopar73 top fuel
dennismopar73 top fuel D Joined: Nov 2009 Posts: 2,177 ill	First off paint what ever your painter likes to paint with! for one thing it is what he knows ! and it is what he is used to painting! Biggest issue will always be , WHAT IS UNDER IT! Body work, primers, With basiacally 3 paint companies , paint pep is the most critical, most important part! I have done b/c, and single/enamel, with putting a clear over it!,YES YOU CAN DO THAT TOO, ! Makes the paint appear 'deeper' as well as a very good sun vading property to the paint! I have seen very good painters, and even some great painters, Getting the look you need starts with prep work,, lots of it ! after that the talent of the painter can not be stated enough! You can paint anything with a roller god painter can make it look like a 20tho paint job!

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