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Re: Another update on my 408- advance cam next?
[Re: Sport440]
#1494925
09/03/13 01:54 AM
09/03/13 01:54 AM
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,141
junction city oregon
viperblue72
top fuel
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top fuel
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,141
junction city oregon
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Get that electric fan on there. A clutch fan robs more power than you realize. A 4.56 gear would too help, especially at 3500 pounds. I'm not gonna lie though. To gain 3 tenths from your combo without changing much is not going to happen. An 11.30 is ALOT different than a 10.90. Throw in a 260@050 solid roller. That would be my suggestion.
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Re: Another update on my 408- advance cam next?
[Re: viperblue72]
#1494926
09/03/13 02:06 AM
09/03/13 02:06 AM
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Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,517
pacific northwest
Stroker Scamp
master
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master
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 3,517
pacific northwest
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side note, have you taken any weight off the front end, big brace behind front bumper, crash beams in doors, lighten bumper brackets,, should get you at least 50 lbs, under coating removal?
im not an engine guy but your car is lazy off the line then really wakes up bout 60'
footbrake N/A SB 408 Scamp 10.10 @ 132 street/strip
73 Duster 340 street strip 12.79 @ 105
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Re: Another update on my 408- advance cam next?
[Re: mshred]
#1494928
09/03/13 06:42 AM
09/03/13 06:42 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
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Quote:
Quote:
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The fact that my incrementals are all inline with eachother is what has me a little upset...I built this thing to run 10.90's and im struggling to even get 11 oh's out of it. I am running IMM prepped and ported RHS X heads that flow 291/212 cfm at .600"...I agree that the converter could have been loosened more, but at this point sending it back out is not feasible (its almost $450 to get it re-stalled which was covered by them this past time, but next time around I would have to pay...plus the 100 bucks in shipping there and back  )...However, its definitely an improvement over how it was stalling before
I too am thinking that advancing the cam might not really give me much improvement, if any, at all....but its worth a try right? Maybe the car will pick...atleast I sure as heck hope so...otherwise this winter its back to the drawing board to figure out how to get more power out of this thing.
maybe you are asking for to much at 3500lbs. low compression, steel heads, small cam 
Do you think so? Im not being sarcastic here either when I say that...I thought a 408 stroker, even with my steel heads, 4.10 gear and 28" tires would be sure fire way to break into or atleast get real close to running 10's in my car...albeit I didn't think my car would weigh as much as it does, but I have seen others post on here about their 3400lb cars going 10's no problem with sb strokers, so I didn't think I would be too far off.
I know removing weight is the easiest way to go faster, but I am honestly out of ideas. I have no backseat, kirkey seats up front, glass hood, aluminum wheels, 904 instead of a 727, no p/s or p/b or a/c...Heck, the only things left would be aluminum heads, glass bumpers, and when I switch to electric fans over my clutch fan (which really I don't think should weigh much anyways)...The mild steel cage added quite a bit of weight to the car, but I have no clue where else to start a diet on this thing.
Not going to lie, I am a little let down with how the car is running...I usually never get my hopes high any time I build a new combo, but this time around I was really gunning and hoping for 10's
yes I do, here is what I know.we all know Brian knows what he is doing.you really don't have the optimum set uo with the converter, gears, etc so that hurts the combo a little but not much. anytime you have an ET goal you should exceed it by a bunch. I would have went with a better set of heads and a roller cam. talk with Brian a roller may pick you up 30hp or so just with a cam change.
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Re: Another update on my 408- advance cam next?
[Re: Quicktree]
#1494929
09/03/13 09:43 AM
09/03/13 09:43 AM
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,178
Indy
FlyFish
super stock
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super stock
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,178
Indy
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I've been reading your posts, and honestly, in the heat, for a heavy car like yours I think it is running well (and what I would expect it to run). In cooler air you will probably dip into the 10.90's. That converter change looks like it got you a few tenths (Nice gain), but to run 10.90's in the heat will either take 30+ more HP, or putting that car on a diet to get it down closer to 3200 lbs. For what its worth, my car runs 10.9's in the heat, but it is about 3200-3250 with driver. I know you don't want to do this (from previous posts), but dropping the exhaust might get you a tenth or 2...just sayin. Good luck. 
67 Barracuda street car, 408, e85, 1.38 60', 6.44 @105.9 in the 1/8 mile, 10.19 @130.5 in the 1/4...so far....
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Re: Another update on my 408- advance cam next?
[Re: 1967dartgt]
#1494931
09/03/13 10:19 AM
09/03/13 10:19 AM
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Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,210
robin hood country
deaks
master
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master
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 3,210
robin hood country
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Moving the cam will help but you need best part of 4-5 mph to run 10.90, that will take either more cam and head or less weight I believe dropping the exhaust and jetting will gain you at least .15.
Mick
69 Dart GTS 440 mopar .590 cam, Edelbrock heads, 3200#
best et 6.45, 106.78, 10.14, 132.88 mph, 1.47 60ft
best 60ft 1.36
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Re: Another update on my 408- advance cam next?
[Re: mshred]
#1494932
09/03/13 10:38 AM
09/03/13 10:38 AM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,746
Ontario, Canada
Dodgem
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,746
Ontario, Canada
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Quote:
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...... 'I want this thing to go 10.90's in the heat, and im thinking advancing the cam is the only thing left to get this pig of an a-body moving."
4.30's? 
I thought about a gear swap as I do want to put a spool in over the winter...But its a street car, and I liked having the 4.10's for when I do drive it on the highway (not often but it does happen)...But then again, this car is becoming more track oriented than anything else.
Would 4.30's even have a noticeable improvement though over 4.10's? Would it not just be better to try a 4.56 ratio instead?
I think 4 degree's will be fine you just need to get into the power band at the launch and your car will wake right up! By listening to your car i'm sure i'm right and had you listened to me long ago you would have bee knocking on the 10's long ago.
when you can hear the power level change 100 feet out that is a big problem.
advance it 4 deg and try it.
a 4.30 gear will only give you .075 to .01 tops I think you advance the cam to 104 and you will go 10.90 next time out!
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Re: Another update on my 408- advance cam next?
[Re: Dodgem]
#1494933
09/03/13 10:44 AM
09/03/13 10:44 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
...... 'I want this thing to go 10.90's in the heat, and im thinking advancing the cam is the only thing left to get this pig of an a-body moving."
4.30's?
I thought about a gear swap as I do want to put a spool in over the winter...But its a street car, and I liked having the 4.10's for when I do drive it on the highway (not often but it does happen)...But then again, this car is becoming more track oriented than anything else.
Would 4.30's even have a noticeable improvement though over 4.10's? Would it not just be better to try a 4.56 ratio instead?
I think 4 degree's will be fine you just need to get into the power band at the launch and your car will wake right up! By listening to your car i'm sure i'm right and had you listened to me long ago you would have bee knocking on the 10's long ago.
when you can hear the power level change 100 feet out that is a big problem.
advance it 4 deg and try it.
a 4.30 gear will only give you .075 to .01 tops I think you advance the cam to 104 and you will go 10.90 next time out!
while I agree he pay pick up, I just dont see a .3 gain in the same conditions 
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Re: Another update on my 408- advance cam next?
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1494935
09/03/13 11:11 AM
09/03/13 11:11 AM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
Quicktree
I Win
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 32,394
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Quote:
a 4.30 gear will only give you .075 to .01 tops I think you advance the cam to 104 and you will go 10.90 next time out!
while I agree he pay pick up, I just dont see a .3 gain in the same conditions
In reality he needs .4... he wants to run 10.90 for
the class.. now he is 11.28(lets round that to 11.30)
and .4 isnt gonna happen with the same conditions ..
for testing I would advance the cam, drop the exhaust
and see what ya get
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Re: Another update on my 408- advance cam next?
[Re: Quicktree]
#1494936
09/03/13 05:26 PM
09/03/13 05:26 PM
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Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,415
Toronto
mshred
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,415
Toronto
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Hey guys,
I appreciate all the input and responses on this! I am trying to stay positive too and not get disappointed with where im at. I don't really want to spin the motor higher than I am, and even though it does make power higher, it seems to run best where I am currently shifting it.
As for removing the exhaust, it ain't going to happen..Especially since the class I want to run requires running mufflers/exhaust. Will I gain? possibly, but if I can't use those gains when I race, I don't see the point.
I am going to actually head outside in the next little bit to get the timing cover off the motor and advance the cam. Im really hoping this will wake the car up. I also never thought about it, but a low gear set in the 904 could also possibly help my cause without having to change the rear gear ratio.
As for the elephant like weight, im going to have to do some serious and creative thinking about what im going to remove off this thing or change. I was thinking glass bumpers, but I really like how the chrome ones look. I have never lightened the bumper brackets, but I guess its worth a shot (there is also no brace behind either to remove). My car has no crash bars, and the undercoating is all still there just because I drive this thing even in rain and like the protection it provides. I am however thinking about ditching the whole heater box setup, going alum rad and electric fans, and if I can find a nice chrome finish for fibreglass, then going that route for the bumpers. If I can get this thing to weigh somewhere in the 3300lb range with me in it I would be happy, but I think thats going to take alot.
But one thing at a time though...Going to get that cam advanced and see what it does for me. Im wondering if that will also change the jetting that the car likes, as I already know the car will probably want to be shifted somewhat lower than the 6700rpms it currently sees.
Ideally better heads and a solid roller would be the way to go, but im going to try and work with what I have and see what the car does before winter- if im not happy with the performance, then maybe over the winter those are some options for me to think about.
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Re: Another update on my 408- advance cam next?
[Re: mshred]
#1494937
09/03/13 05:38 PM
09/03/13 05:38 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,266
Renton Washington
Triple Threat
master
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master
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 6,266
Renton Washington
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Comparing it to my old motor, mine was 20 cubes smaller, 11.3:1 compression, heads went 280@600 on Brians bench, 263/268@.050 solid FT. Otherwise pretty similar. You need more camshaft. 3500# mine went 10.75@123 in the heat with 4.10's and a 27" tire. Low first gear 904.
-Dustin
67 Dart, 9 second, 392" G3 Hemi
68 Barracuda 340 F/SA
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Re: Another update on my 408- advance cam next?
[Re: mshred]
#1494938
09/03/13 05:42 PM
09/03/13 05:42 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
383man
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 27,421
Balt. Md
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You know I think like you that I wont put glass bumbers on my 63 either as I like the look of chrome bumbers. I still have my heater box and all also in my car. I also set a goal and wanted to achive it on pump thru the full exh and without removing weight from the car as I wanted it to stay a street car and not turn into a race car. My goal was 10's like that on pump thru the pipes even driving to the track. You are getting very close to your goal and I agree advancing the cam is a good idea. It dont cost anything much and cant hurt to try. But remember no matter what it runs it does run pretty good already for the combo and you have one of the best looking cars out there by far. Its one of the nicest A-bodies I have seen. And this is what its all about trying our tricks and working on our cars always trying to go faster. Good luck with it and let us know how the advanced cam turns out. Ron
Last edited by 383man; 09/03/13 05:44 PM.
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Re: Another update on my 408- advance cam next?
[Re: mshred]
#1494939
09/03/13 05:52 PM
09/03/13 05:52 PM
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Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY
Master
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Master
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
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I understand that you dont want to/cant take the exhaust off for your class... BUT for testing reasons you should take it off and see how much you gain... it very well could be just your muffs are SUPER RESTRICTIVE but without testing it you will never know... if they are restrictive you could go with other muffs that flow much better and yet are still quiet... so dont take it like I want you to drop them off every time you go to the track.... its TESTING
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Re: Another update on my 408- advance cam next?
[Re: 340Bird]
#1494941
09/03/13 07:10 PM
09/03/13 07:10 PM
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,267
North, Alabama
D-50
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,267
North, Alabama
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I know you probably do not want to do this but you could put a NOS kit on it and spray 50-75 shot on it and get your 10.90. Then you would not have to change your gear ratio or any of the other things you may have to do to get where you want. You will still be as street friendly as you are now. I am thinking about doing that to mine to run in our 6.00 class at my local 1/8 mile track.It would be the easiest solution. You could put a NOS timer on it to dial in your e.t.
1.33 60 ft,6.21 at 110.59 in the 1/8, pump gas small block,2950lbs,drag radials,mufflers and driven to track ...
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Re: Another update on my 408- advance cam next?
[Re: MR_P_BODY]
#1494942
09/03/13 07:24 PM
09/03/13 07:24 PM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
HotRodDave
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 12,419
Kalispell Mt.
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I also agree with advancing the cam, 4 degrees ought to do it some good.
Mt old 66 dart I raced would go 2 tenths faster with no fan at all than with the clutch fan witch I thought I needed the biggest baddest fan so it was pretty big, 4 bolts was easy enough to test back to back, when I put in an electric fan it did not slow back down. I gained a couple tenths from low gears in the 904 but it was geared pretty high (2.94).
I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!
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Re: Another update on my 408- advance cam next?
[Re: pittsburghracer]
#1494944
09/03/13 09:49 PM
09/03/13 09:49 PM
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Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,746
Ontario, Canada
Dodgem
master
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master
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 5,746
Ontario, Canada
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Quote:
Quote:
I know you probably do not want to do this but you could put a NOS kit on it and spray 50-75 shot on it and get your 10.90. Then you would not have to change your gear ratio or any of the other things you may have to do to get where you want. You will still be as street friendly as you are now. I am thinking about doing that to mine to run in our 6.00 class at my local 1/8 mile track.It would be the easiest solution. You could put a NOS timer on it to dial in your e.t.
I credit him for wanting to do it the harder old-school way. Anyone can add a little shot and do it. As soon as he gets that car to pickup in the first 100 feet he is going to have to worry about slowing it down to run the 10.90 index. Good-luck and you will be there in no time as advancing the cam SHOULD be a step in the right direction.
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