Re: Boss 302 Mustang or old Mopar *DELETED*
[Re: PHJ426]
#1494527
10/20/13 08:48 PM
10/20/13 08:48 PM
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302 Nebraska
72Swinger
master
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master
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 4,302
Nebraska
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I've never been impressed with any 4.6 i've driven or beat. They just dont have what ive gotten used to with a BB Mopar. Not even remotely. If I need boost to be happy i will use something else. I have pretty high expectation for my current 6.1 project. Good luck with your Mustang adventure, the Coyote is a very stout engine and really puts everything else Ford has built in the last 30 years to shame.
Mopar to the bone!!!
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Re: Boss 302 Mustang or old Mopar *DELETED*
[Re: PHJ426]
#1494529
10/21/13 05:15 AM
10/21/13 05:15 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862 the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader
Swears too much
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Swears too much
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
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Quote:
Then the Coyote engine has been out for awhile and the HP it makes is pretty impressive. A 4 valve head gives the engine great low end torque for it's small displacement size.
Could you imagine what a 500 cube engine with a good set of 4 valve heads could do to a set rear tires.........
Now given these engines handle supercharging really well and make over 800+ HP that kinda puts the engine back into the unusable for road racing with too much power out of the turns.
Perhaps without realizing it, you contradicted yourself. The 5L mod makes close to 500HP IF measured the exact same way you'd measure a dyno'd 500 Mopar. 444HP net easily does that. Thats without headers, and the odd other common as-installed' bolt-on.
Take a theoretical 500cid Coyote and you'll have 800HP, and as you say, unusable power.
NO need for 500cid anymore. That was for back when engines made 1HP/cid. Every supermegabadass car in America does plenty fine on under 400cid, most well under. Take these new engines out ov their obese and mandate-addled carrying cases (Mustang included) and drop 'em into prepped older cars and you'll have all the speed you can handle in 99% ov cases. The only thing 500cid is a surefire recipe for these days is a car that never gets driven.
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Re: Boss 302 Mustang or old Mopar *DELETED*
[Re: 72Swinger]
#1494530
10/21/13 05:26 AM
10/21/13 05:26 AM
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862 the frozen wastes...
Pale_Roader
Swears too much
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Swears too much
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 4,862
the frozen wastes...
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Quote:
I've never been impressed with any 4.6 i've driven or beat. They just dont have what ive gotten used to with a BB Mopar. Not even remotely.
Not saying this is you, but most guys i've heard say that said the same thing about a 383 Mopar... and were driving them like you would drive a big fat big block. The 4.6 is a whole different animal, just like a 302 Chev was back in the day. Plenty ov fast 302 Z28's and 383's back then. You had to really beat them. Contrary to popular belief you DONT need boatloads ov torque to win a race. Mustang after Mustang after Cobra after Mustang at the track prove that more and more every year.
Quote:
I have pretty high expectation for my current 6.1 project. Good luck with your Mustang adventure, the Coyote is a very stout engine and really puts everything else Ford has built in the last 30 years to shame.
If you are replacing a big block with that 6.1L Hemi i'll bet you bloody love it when it gets going. I drove a first year first gen 5.7 Hemi in a beat rental 300C years ago and was more than impressed with just that.
I like the mod more personally, but any new V8... Hemi, mod, LS will do far better than the simple math suggests it will.
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Re: Boss 302 Mustang or old Mopar
[Re: Dan@Hotchkis]
#1494531
10/23/13 12:37 AM
10/23/13 12:37 AM
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 380 Escondido CA USA
Tomswheels
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 380
Escondido CA USA
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Quote:
At the last SDR-SCCA Autocross a friend of mine was doing some 200tw tire testing in his Mustang on the Saturday practice while I was running the Challenger. The fastest tire he tried was the Falken 615K, and with those was about 2 seconds off of my pace. The following day, when he was back on his slicks, he had me covered by about a second. He is a really good driver and is in the running for a jacket in ESP with a bone stock 2012 5.0 with tires.
Dan, this is the first time you didn't complain about my driving technique! I agree with Mr. Angry, but wanted to add two more cents, as someone who tracks his old Mopars and new Mustang as often as often as I can: My 2013 420HP GT was $29,800 out the door with a 6spd, 3.73 rear, and Brembo brake package. I added $200 Eibach lowering springs. So for $30K, I have a daily driver track car that beats new Camaros, including a 1LE with a Pedders Supercar Suspension package at the So-Cal Challenge Cammarillo autocross. The Mustang is simply lighter and more nimble. At the last two local Goodguys autocross I ran away from all the new Camaros and Challengers, some with a lot of $$ in mods. Again, the Mustang, on most tracks, is just as fast in a straight line and more maneuverable. I love driving the Mustang daily, and it does many things very well, but, it does weigh 3650 lbs. The Mustang also has traction control/electronics that I think distract from the pure joy of tracking a car, even when supposedly turned off. Against an old Mopar, properly set up by Dan and Hotchkis, on a small course where I can't exploit the Mustangs power advantage, the Hotchkis 71 Challenger is simply a better handling car, and ultimately I think a more satisfying car to drive fast because of the lack of driver aids. This is why next year I am keeping the Mustang on daily driver duty, but having Dan/Hotchkis set up my Valiant to be my track car, and ultimately, for about 2/3 the investment, as fast or faster than a new stock Mustang on most tracks.
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Re: Boss 302 Mustang or old Mopar *DELETED*
[Re: Dan@Hotchkis]
#1494532
10/23/13 04:56 PM
10/23/13 04:56 PM
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Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 462 Stockholm, Sweden
fed
mopar
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mopar
Joined: Jun 2010
Posts: 462
Stockholm, Sweden
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70 Challenger: 3006lbs base. 70 Mustang FB: lighter. 69 Mustang FB: lighter still. 67-8 FB: lighter still. 65-6 FB: lighter still. 65 Notch: you get the point.
How much is a -65 Valiant ?
Cuda, -70 Valiant-65 AWB, Valiant Signet200 -65 Topchopped dragcar. Topolino Fuel Altered. NostalgiaFED Sold, SuperComp Bantam Altered, Sold Ex Harlan Thompsons Nitro funny car American Graffiti Sold,
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Re: Boss 302 Mustang or old Mopar
[Re: Tomswheels]
#1494535
10/25/13 12:19 PM
10/25/13 12:19 PM
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Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,456 Fly Over States
PHJ426
OP
master
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OP
master
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,456
Fly Over States
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Quote:
Quote:
At the last SDR-SCCA Autocross a friend of mine was doing some 200tw tire testing in his Mustang on the Saturday practice while I was running the Challenger. The fastest tire he tried was the Falken 615K, and with those was about 2 seconds off of my pace. The following day, when he was back on his slicks, he had me covered by about a second. He is a really good driver and is in the running for a jacket in ESP with a bone stock 2012 5.0 with tires.
Dan, this is the first time you didn't complain about my driving technique! I agree with Mr. Angry, but wanted to add two more cents, as someone who tracks his old Mopars and new Mustang as often as often as I can: My 2013 420HP GT was $29,800 out the door with a 6spd, 3.73 rear, and Brembo brake package. I added $200 Eibach lowering springs. So for $30K, I have a daily driver track car that beats new Camaros, including a 1LE with a Pedders Supercar Suspension package at the So-Cal Challenge Cammarillo autocross. The Mustang is simply lighter and more nimble. At the last two local Goodguys autocross I ran away from all the new Camaros and Challengers, some with a lot of $$ in mods. Again, the Mustang, on most tracks, is just as fast in a straight line and more maneuverable. I love driving the Mustang daily, and it does many things very well, but, it does weigh 3650 lbs. The Mustang also has traction control/electronics that I think distract from the pure joy of tracking a car, even when supposedly turned off. Against an old Mopar, properly set up by Dan and Hotchkis, on a small course where I can't exploit the Mustangs power advantage, the Hotchkis 71 Challenger is simply a better handling car, and ultimately I think a more satisfying car to drive fast because of the lack of driver aids. This is why next year I am keeping the Mustang on daily driver duty, but having Dan/Hotchkis set up my Valiant to be my track car, and ultimately, for about 2/3 the investment, as fast or faster than a new stock Mustang on most tracks.
Tom, it looks like your Mustang has the Track Pack from the factory. That is a nice combo out of the box.
An A body definitely makes a better contender with its light weight. How much power will you plan on running in the Valiant?
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Re: Boss 302 Mustang or old Mopar
[Re: PHJ426]
#1494538
10/26/13 02:51 PM
10/26/13 02:51 PM
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 380 Escondido CA USA
Tomswheels
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 380
Escondido CA USA
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Quote:
Tom ....after watching the Hot Rod tire test, have you ever tried those Dunlops on the Mustang?
Looks like those Dunlops are .93 faster on The Taxi over the Falken 615's
Valiants are cool. Stroker small blocks produce great power and lower weight over the front end.
I haven't had a chance yet, but one of my competitors earlier this year in a fox-mustang picked up 3 seconds a lap when he switched to the Dunlops. My problem is I can't get myself to cough up the $$ for new tires, everything I've run on so far have been cheap, used, Craigslist scores....
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Re: Boss 302 Mustang or old Mopar
[Re: PHJ426]
#1494540
10/26/13 03:43 PM
10/26/13 03:43 PM
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 380 Escondido CA USA
Tomswheels
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 380
Escondido CA USA
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Quote:
3 seconds a lap from a tire change. Now that is amazing.
I understand it's tough for the working man to cough up the money for the tires.
Were the tires on your Mustang the Goodyear F1 from the factory?
Mine had Pirelli Pzeros from Ford, nice quiet tire, but not sticky. Tried some lightly used Nitto NT-05s, really didnt like those, the sidewalls are very soft. Then used Michelin Super Sports, good, consistent tire. Now on some cheap new Falken RT615Ks I got 1/2 price from a drifter, best 200+ treadware tires I've tried, but again, after watching that fox-mustang on the new Dunlops, they look like a no-brainier if you're buying new tires.
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Re: Boss 302 Mustang or old Mopar
[Re: Tomswheels]
#1494541
10/26/13 06:11 PM
10/26/13 06:11 PM
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Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696 Bitopia
jcc
If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
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If you can't dazzle em with diamonds..
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 22,696
Bitopia
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Quiet?, You on straight road at speed, or when aggressive cornering ?
Reality check, that half the population is smarter then 50% of the people and it's a constantly contested fact.
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Re: Boss 302 Mustang or old Mopar
[Re: jcc]
#1494542
10/27/13 12:35 AM
10/27/13 12:35 AM
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Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 380 Escondido CA USA
Tomswheels
enthusiast
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enthusiast
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 380
Escondido CA USA
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Quote:
Quiet?, You on straight road at speed, or when aggressive cornering ?
Both, actually, the PZeros have softer sidewalls, and just don't have the cornering limits of the Michelins or the Falkens.
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Re: Boss 302 Mustang or old Mopar
[Re: Mopar Mitch]
#1494545
10/27/13 02:54 AM
10/27/13 02:54 AM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 18,678 Fresno, CA
Jim_Lusk
I Live Here
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I Live Here
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 18,678
Fresno, CA
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Quote:
Jim... very coooll pic! I like the autocross class... "C/P" (C/Prepared)... everyone always wants to be in C/P at the SCCA autocross.
With the mods we had, we had to run in CP even though it was a street car with a mild 383. This is a tough class, but it was easy to trophy in for the season since we made the most events by a long shot, but had trouble with the full-boogie race cars in the class that were considerably lighter (kinda the theme for this whole discussion). Some day the car will be back together, maybe...
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