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Hemi stumble/sputter on starting line ??? #1493435
08/31/13 09:25 AM
08/31/13 09:25 AM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 54
Strongsville, Ohio
Charlie Moore Offline OP
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Charlie Moore  Offline OP
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I have a '65 Coronet with a 514" Hemi, Mopar crossram with 2 Holley 770's. Footbrake car. I have tried 2 converters and the current one will only allow a launch of 2600 rpm. On the hit of the throttle the car stumbles and actually spits back thru the carbs which is visible when we try with the hood off. It will stumble for a bit maybe 100 -150 ft. and then take off like a rocket and run almost 140 mph.
Now for the things we have tried are two different sets of carbs and going lean and fat with both. Different ignition wires. 3 different types of plugs. Different MSD 7al2, Compression test, Leak down test, Crank trigger, crank trigger wire, reroute crank trigger wire to avoid RF. By pass crank trigger and use distributor.
We did find a broken intake valve spring and thought great that's it. Went to a track rental this past Monday ready to make some good hits and had the exact same problem.
We have spoken with several engine builders across the country and they have all taken the time to listen to everything. After they have a while to think about it they have all said it sounds like everything is right.
We degreed the cam a while back and we are going to check it again today just to be sure because it really acts like the intake valves seem to be closing a little late.
I posted this today as it marks my 3 month anniversary since I first took this car to the track and we are no closer to a resolution.
Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Charlie Moore
440-846-3777

Last edited by Charlie Moore; 08/31/13 09:44 AM.
Re: Hemi stumble/sputter on starting line ??? [Re: Charlie Moore] #1493436
08/31/13 10:09 AM
08/31/13 10:09 AM
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 52,972
Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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It really sounds like your accelerator pump and squirters
being its right at the hit... is the pump arm moving
as soon as you move the throttle blades
EDIT
Whats your timing at

Last edited by MR_P_BODY; 08/31/13 10:11 AM.
Re: Hemi stumble/sputter on starting line ??? [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1493437
08/31/13 10:13 AM
08/31/13 10:13 AM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 54
Strongsville, Ohio
Charlie Moore Offline OP
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The squirters have been replaced with larger and smaller ones. The cams that push on the accelerator pump arms have been replaced and modified to give the major shot after stage rpm. Thank you for the input.

Last edited by Charlie Moore; 08/31/13 10:18 AM.
Re: Hemi stumble/sputter on starting line ??? [Re: Charlie Moore] #1493438
08/31/13 10:17 AM
08/31/13 10:17 AM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 54
Strongsville, Ohio
Charlie Moore Offline OP
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Timing has been tried anywhere from 29 degrees to 35 degrees.

Re: Hemi stumble/sputter on starting line ??? [Re: Charlie Moore] #1493439
08/31/13 10:18 AM
08/31/13 10:18 AM
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Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Will it it free rev without the stumble

Re: Hemi stumble/sputter on starting line ??? [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1493440
08/31/13 10:20 AM
08/31/13 10:20 AM
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Strongsville, Ohio
Charlie Moore Offline OP
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When I try to free rev it, it will go to about 4000 rpm and stumble momentarily and then jump up.

Re: Hemi stumble/sputter on starting line ??? [Re: Charlie Moore] #1493441
08/31/13 10:25 AM
08/31/13 10:25 AM
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Romeo MI
MR_P_BODY Offline
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Quote:

When I try to free rev it, it will go to about 4000 rpm and stumble momentarily and then jump up.




The reason I ask if it will free rev is that will
eliminate the drive line/conv... it still has the
problem but less and at a different rpm.. load just
makes it worse.... have you sprayed the intake for
vac leaks

Re: Hemi stumble/sputter on starting line ??? [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1493442
08/31/13 10:29 AM
08/31/13 10:29 AM
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Strongsville, Ohio
Charlie Moore Offline OP
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I'm not 100% sure what you mean when you say spray the intake? I've heard of it, but what are you spraying it with?

Re: Hemi stumble/sputter on starting line ??? [Re: Charlie Moore] #1493443
08/31/13 10:33 AM
08/31/13 10:33 AM
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Romeo MI
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Quote:

I'm not 100% sure what you mean when you say spray the intake? I've heard of it, but what are you spraying it with?




Spray it with carb or brake cleaner.. it has to be
a flammable product ... but if its leaking it will
suck in the carb cleaner and you will hear the revs
come up(its burning the cleaner like fuel)

Re: Hemi stumble/sputter on starting line ??? [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1493444
08/31/13 10:38 AM
08/31/13 10:38 AM
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 54
Strongsville, Ohio
Charlie Moore Offline OP
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I really appreciate this. We noticed that the idle air bleeds have been changed to make them replaceable. We noticed that adjusting the air/fuel mixture did not affect the idle much at all. We assumed the air bleeds were just to big but there maybe a leak. I will try this after I put the front of the engine back together. Thanks again.

Re: Hemi stumble/sputter on starting line ??? [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1493445
08/31/13 10:41 AM
08/31/13 10:41 AM
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Posts: 54
Strongsville, Ohio
Charlie Moore Offline OP
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With this creating a super lean condition on the opening of the throttle, have you seen it start spitting back like I tried to describe?

Re: Hemi stumble/sputter on starting line ??? [Re: Charlie Moore] #1493446
08/31/13 10:49 AM
08/31/13 10:49 AM
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Romeo MI
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Quote:

With this creating a super lean condition on the opening of the throttle, have you seen it start spitting back like I tried to describe?




Any time its super lean the spark tries to chase the
fuel so yes its common to have it spit back and fart
through the carb

Re: Hemi stumble/sputter on starting line ??? [Re: Charlie Moore] #1493447
08/31/13 11:02 AM
08/31/13 11:02 AM
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Ontario, Canada
Dodgem Offline
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My uneducated guess is the problems are in the vacuum secondairees maybe opening to fast and maybe too lean or rich at first.

That could be an air bleed problem not allowing enough fuel in right away.

probably opening too fast and too lean combination??

Re: Hemi stumble/sputter on starting line ??? [Re: Dodgem] #1493448
08/31/13 11:10 AM
08/31/13 11:10 AM
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Romeo MI
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Quote:

My uneducated guess is the problems are in the vacuum secondairees maybe opening to fast and maybe too lean or rich at first.

That could be an air bleed problem not allowing enough fuel in right away.

probably opening too fast and too lean combination??




Very well could be... but he has tried 2 sets of carbs...
but that really doesnt mean much if both sets of carbs
were set up about the same

Re: Hemi stumble/sputter on starting line ??? [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1493449
08/31/13 11:21 AM
08/31/13 11:21 AM
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Ontario, Canada
Dodgem Offline
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So he says lean and fat if it goes lean then fat it sure could be the secondairees coming open too soon lean with no air flow no initial flow from jets then maybe fat because of jetting and or air bleeds??

Re: Hemi stumble/sputter on starting line ??? [Re: Dodgem] #1493450
08/31/13 11:28 AM
08/31/13 11:28 AM
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Dodgem Offline
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So one easy test would be to go 1/2 throttle at the hit and feed it the rest of the throttle over 60 to 80 feet if that smooths it out it's most likely all in secondary opening and jetting/air bleeds.

Re: Hemi stumble/sputter on starting line ??? [Re: Dodgem] #1493451
08/31/13 11:31 AM
08/31/13 11:31 AM
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Quote:

So he says lean and fat if it goes lean then fat it sure could be the secondairees coming open too soon lean with no air flow no initial flow from jets then maybe fat because of jetting and or air bleeds??





I took it that he jetted it leaner and fatter

Re: Hemi stumble/sputter on starting line ??? [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1493452
08/31/13 11:41 AM
08/31/13 11:41 AM
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SOUTH JERSEY
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Quote:

Quote:

My uneducated guess is the problems are in the vacuum secondairees maybe opening to fast and maybe too lean or rich at first.

That could be an air bleed problem not allowing enough fuel in right away.

probably opening too fast and too lean combination??





Very well could be... but he has tried 2 sets of carbs...
but that really doesnt mean much if both sets of carbs
were set up about the same





I have seen similar trouble in the past. The carbs were set up for another style manifold and did not want to work with the new one. try returning carbs to out of the box condition


home of the
Sox and Martin Hemi Duster


Re: Hemi stumble/sputter on starting line ??? [Re: MR_P_BODY] #1493453
08/31/13 11:56 AM
08/31/13 11:56 AM
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Ontario, Canada
Dodgem Offline
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Quote:

Quote:

So he says lean and fat if it goes lean then fat it sure could be the secondairees coming open too soon lean with no air flow no initial flow from jets then maybe fat because of jetting and or air bleeds??





I took it that he jetted it leaner and fatter





Oh I thought he had an air fuel and could see it going lean then rich?

I agree with hemi freid call holly and find the stock air bleed sizes and jetting put stock secondary opening springs back in and go from there

some stuff on tuning air bleeds
http://www.quickfueltechnology.com/technical-info/carb-class-air-bleed-basics

http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles/tuning_with_air_bleeds/

Re: Hemi stumble/sputter on starting line ??? [Re: Dodgem] #1493454
08/31/13 01:25 PM
08/31/13 01:25 PM
Joined: Feb 2012
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Strongsville, Ohio
Charlie Moore Offline OP
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The carbs were set up for a crossram and the second set we tried came off a crossram. We just checked cam timing. Bullet says this cam should be at 109. It was installed at 110.5. It has a Cloyes Hex-adjust cam gear. So I loosened the 3 gear bolts a tried to adjust adjuster cam within the cam gear and sure enough it cracked. I guess I'm done until Tuesday when I can call Cloyes. I greatly appreciate everyone's feedback and suggestions. I'm going to Norwalk now just to watch some cars that actually run. Thanks, Charlie.

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