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Super duper MPG Ram project. #1477246
07/31/13 08:34 PM
07/31/13 08:34 PM
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Kalispell Mt.
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HotRodDave Offline OP
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Lost hot idle oil pressure and started getting a dull knock in the lower end so I threw a short block together with my best 318 block best 8 pistons out of 100 or so on my shelf, and fresh rings, bearings... and did just one or two little tricks.

1 milled the block to 9.544 and the pistons were zero deck, they would just touch the heads but not stop it from turning when turned by hand with no gaskets. I checked for piston to valve interfearance with no gasket and 1.7 rockers on the stock cam, nothing touched with the lifters bottomed so I put on the .039 felpros and factory 1.6 rockers and bolted it together (I checked the VJ for a good seal and polished the ex valves in the drill press and progresively finner sand paper). I put a .050 shim under the springs to reduce float and pump up. Other than that it was bone stock with a zero deck tight quench high compression. I pulled the clutch fan for an electric and put on some 265-65-20s in place of the stock 22-75-16s to get the RPM down. It runs 1500@60 MPH. And on the way to Seattle I ran the cruise at 75 mph and had the AC cranked, it down shifts a lot less, leans out the fuel trim about 10-15% from before the swap and throttle position is down about 2% at same cruise speeds. Less knocking (no pingin at all) now than before even in the 100* heat pulling steep grades. It pulls harder above 2000RPM. It went from 120-130 PSI on the old motor to 160-170 on the new one. Best of all it got 21 MPG.


I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!



Re: Super duper MPG Ram project. [Re: HotRodDave] #1477247
07/31/13 10:15 PM
07/31/13 10:15 PM
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Loves Park, IL
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Looks like your not working so hard to keep this ice age away! Dont worry my 4 MPG on the RR will make up for you. Got to love being able to afford to drive around much more now.

Re: Super duper MPG Ram project. [Re: HotRodRailroader] #1477248
07/31/13 11:23 PM
07/31/13 11:23 PM
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Very nice!

What are the other specs on the truck? (rear end, 2x4 or 4x4, weight?)

Do you know what your compression came out to being? What gas are you running? Keg intake, or something else?


If you ever find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.
Re: Super duper MPG Ram project. [Re: HotRodDave] #1477249
08/01/13 07:55 PM
08/01/13 07:55 PM
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Kalispell Mt.
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2wd extended cab long bed very heavy
10 to one compression and that tank was probably 86 octane. Un touched beer barrel intake.
I even let the temp get up to 220 at the drive through and no pinging getting on the drive on ramp.


I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!



Re: Super duper MPG Ram project. [Re: HotRodDave] #1477250
08/03/13 09:38 AM
08/03/13 09:38 AM
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Thanks for posting that.

So at a milled deck height of
9.544 inches
there is maybe
0.001 of clearance without a head gasket

Does that mean the factory
5.2 flat top pistons
have a compression height
from centerline of pin to top of crown of
1.767 inches?

9.544 + 0.001
- 6.123
-1.655 (which is 3.31 stroke /2)
________
1.767 inches

I had been using
1.755
based on parts store replacement Badger brand 5.2 Magnum pistons

The PerformanceTrends Engine Analyzer
with 0.039 compressed head gasket
62 cc combustion chambers
and your near zero deck
calculates a
static compression of 10.32
dynamic compression ratio of 8.46

PerformanceTrends makes the following guess for what a owner might measure with a compression gauge:

If a shot of 30 wt oil were added to each cylinder
and the engine turned over with the starter at a brisk 300 rpm,
the EA 3.2 calculates a theoretical cranking compression on the fourth stroke of
219 psi
(seems high)

For the fuel efficiency gain
the EA 3.2 predicts with the stock
9.1 static compression
a BSFC at full throttle and air fuel ratio of 12.5
of
0.520 at 2800 rpm

with your 10.32
the BSFC improves to
0.512 at 2800 rpm and up to 3200

Horsepower improves from
226 at 4800 rpm
to
242 at 4800 rpm

Re: Super duper MPG Ram project. [Re: 360view] #1477251
08/03/13 09:51 AM
08/03/13 09:51 AM
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in the above
the 5.2 factory camshaft specs
were from the Dodge FSM

251 advertised duration intake
0.432 valve lift with 1.6 rocker ratio

261 advertised duration exhaust
0.432 valve lift with 1.6 rocker ratio

installed 3.0 degrees retarded

dodgeram.org/tech/gas/specs/valve-5_2.htm

but i have seen conflicting 5.2 Magnum camshaft specs, and cant be sure what 1992, 1996 and post 1998 actually were

Re: Super duper MPG Ram project. [Re: 360view] #1477252
08/03/13 02:37 PM
08/03/13 02:37 PM
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Kalispell Mt.
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HotRodDave Offline OP
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When turning it by hand with the head bolted on I could definately feel it touching the heads as I turned it over but it did not stop me from turning it. I did not measure the true stroke so that may be a thou or so off also. I have never seen a 62 CC uncut factory magnum head, more like 65 CC. Also the factory did not quite get 9 to 1 like they advertised. The fel-pro gaskets have a bigger bore more like 4.125 inch don't remember the number right now but I used the KB-Silvolite calculator and came in right around 9.99 or so.

Honestly I am kinda surprised by this result, thats why I posted. I forgot to mention the steady but gentle breeze I was driving straight into all day.

I am thinking about advancing the cam 4 degrees since I put an adjustable double roller set in while I was in it. I already checked P to V advanced and retarded 4 degrees. I also have a cold air KN, 2001 exhaust (bigger higher flowing pipes and cat and an aftermarket straight through muffler of some sort) a cam from a 2000 5.9 and a pair of eddelbrock headers I am thinking about throwing on this truck.


I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!



Re: Super duper MPG Ram project. [Re: HotRodDave] #1477253
08/03/13 04:55 PM
08/03/13 04:55 PM
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with combustion chambers of
65 cc
and gasket bore of 4.125
the EA 3.2 calculates a
static CR of
9.83
and dynamic
8.07

Cranking psi drops to 205

At 2000 rpm idle
EA 3.2 guesses a vacuum reading of
24.5 inches Hg
for this 5.2 V8
based on the cam specs above

21.5 inches Hg
is what my old 1995
5.9 V8 (198,000 miles)
reads at a raised idle of 2000 rpm

EA 3.2 guess mine should read
23.3 inches Hg at 2000 rpm

Some time ago i did
wet with a shot of oil
hot compression tests 14 feet above sea level
and found an average of about
165 psi.

Using 65 cc chambers
0.0475 compressed gasket of 4.125 bore
11.2 cc dish piston crowns
1.622 comp height pistons
9.585 deck,

EA calculates my
Magnum 5.9 V8 static compression to be
8.61
and guesses my oil wet cranking to be
168 psi

my 1995 5.9 cam specs
are not as hot as a 5.2

intake advertised duration 250
valve lift 0.385 inches

exhaust advertised duration 264
valve lift 0.401 inches

Re: Super duper MPG Ram project. [Re: HotRodDave] #1477254
08/05/13 08:13 PM
08/05/13 08:13 PM
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Did this new 318 Magnum build use the
EQ Cylinder Heads instead of stock Magnum heads?

Re: Super duper MPG Ram project. [Re: 360view] #1477255
08/06/13 10:16 PM
08/06/13 10:16 PM
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Kalispell Mt.
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HotRodDave Offline OP
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Bone stock heads.

It got 14 mpg in stop and go traffic in seattle. I got 19 on the way back from seattle to spokane on 87 octane and 19 from spokane to here on 1/2 87 octane and 1/2 e-85.

Down in Seattle (sea level) when it was hot and sunny pulling some steeper grades with 87 in it I got just a tiny bit of ping when in the throttle real steep before a downshift but still less than normal.

I am gonna throw some stock wheels and tires back on for a test to see how much was from gearing and how much improvement was from the quench/compression.


I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!



Re: Super duper MPG Ram project. [Re: HotRodDave] #1477256
08/07/13 01:51 AM
08/07/13 01:51 AM
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Canada
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I think the 2000 up 5.9's had a better cam than the previous ones (same as the Dakota R/T and GC 5.9 Limited cam) per Rick Ehrenberg of MA. Supposedly it's the best one to use with the keg intake. Nice mileage btw, does it have better power? Are you using the stock tune (with the death flash?)? Apparently it's supposed to be a world of difference with a proper tune in those trucks.

Re: Super duper MPG Ram project. [Re: WO23Coronet] #1477257
08/07/13 12:48 PM
08/07/13 12:48 PM
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I never did a death flash on a 318 when I was at the dealer and don't think they ever did it on them, just 5.9s. This is a stock 318 tune. I actually have a 2001 5.9 core and have been thinking about sticking that cam in it and yes they are better cams. It pulls about like a stock 5.9 now, definately stronger than before but it is not blinding fast.


I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!



Re: Super duper MPG Ram project. [Re: HotRodDave] #1477258
08/07/13 04:18 PM
08/07/13 04:18 PM
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So at roughly
3000 feet above sea level
in Kalispell
it does not audibly ping on 87 octane
at full throttle and higher rpm before a shift,
in maybe
74 to 84 degrees F range temperatures
60-ish % Humidity ?

In Seattle it was maybe
16 feet above sea level
86 degrees F,
55% Humidity?

Re: Super duper MPG Ram project. [Re: 360view] #1477259
08/07/13 09:25 PM
08/07/13 09:25 PM
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Kalispell Mt.
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HotRodDave Offline OP
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Seattle is probably correct, here it was in the 90s a few weeks back and no pinging even towing around some cars on my trailer up and down hills.


I am not causing global warming, I am just trying to hold off a impending Ice Age!



Re: Super duper MPG Ram project. [Re: HotRodDave] #1477260
08/08/13 07:36 AM
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Well, just for kicks
heres what the
EA 3.2 predicts for a
318 v8 9.83 cr static
ignition timing maximum setting
before (barely audible) pinging first starts
on 87 octane

at Seattle Washington
16 feet above sea level
29.93 inches Hg barometer
92 degrees
65 degrees dew point humidity

RPM......Ignition timing
3200.......22 @
3400.....,,25 @
3600.......27 @
3800.......29 @
4000.......30

@ sign after ignition timing
means the timing has been retarded
from what would make the best torque
to prevent pinging.

In above table at
4000 rpm is where
"mean best torque" timing (mbt)
can first be used
with no retard

Re: Super duper MPG Ram project. [Re: 360view] #1477261
08/08/13 07:39 AM
08/08/13 07:39 AM
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heres what the
EA 3.2 predicts for a
318 v8 9.83 cr static
ignition timing maximum setting
before (barely audible) pinging first starts
on 87 octane

at Kalispell, Montana
3000 feet above sea level
29.93 inches Hg barometer
92 degrees
65 degrees dew point humidity

RPM......Ignition timing
3200.......27 @
3400.....,,29
3600.......29
3800.......30
4000.......30

@ sign after ignition timing
means the timing has been retarded
from what would make the best torque
to prevent pinging.

In above table at
3400 rpm is where
"mean best torque" timing (mbt)
can first be used
with no retard to avoid pinging

Re: Super duper MPG Ram project. [Re: 360view] #1477262
08/08/13 07:51 AM
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For comparison purposes
the information below came from a
full throttle run on a
1995 Magnum 5.9V8 Ram pickup
with the factory stock OBD-I PCM computer
******
Made the 'record' feature of the Actron ScanTool
with OBD-I Chrysler Cartridge.

This records and stores 5 readings,
3 seconds apart,
of what happened with the
PCM computer sensors before you hit the button, and an additional 10 readings
3 seconds apart afterwards

Here is what the ScanTool recorded on some runs at full throttle in 2nd gear
up a pretty steep hill
{ I guess about 4% grade)
Outside temperature was in the 70's and the barometric pressure was 29.6 inches Hg.
447 feet above sea level.

MPH....RPM......SparkAdv.....Vacuum....O2 voltsDC

40......2804.......19..........0.9..........0.86
48......3175.......19..........1.1..........0.90
54......3485.......18..........1.2..........0.90
60......3787.......21..........1.5..........0.90
65......4093.......24..........1.6..........0.90
71......4471.......24..........1.7..........0.92
76......4785.......28..........1.7..........0.90
80......5040.......28..........1.8..........0.90

This was with gasoline that was about
89 octane,
back in the days when there was no ethanol being added.

No pinging was heard during the run.

On this same hill
on hot 90 degrees days
with 87 octane gasoline
pinging could be heard
beginning around 3500 to 3800 rpm

Re: Super duper MPG Ram project. [Re: 360view] #1477263
08/08/13 08:29 AM
08/08/13 08:29 AM
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Although the above runs were made with the octane of the gasoline set at a 'true' 87,
most 'regular grade' gasoline
sold in this country routinely tests at
85 octane.

On a visit to the gasoline testing lab run by the North Carolina Agriculture Dept in Raleigh years ago
the lab technician told me that their official rules allowed for a 2 octane point 'lower margin' so that what was marketed as 87 octane gasoline would not be given a legal citation unless it tested 84 octane or lower.

The oil companies knew this
and had good internal quality control
and could consistently turn out 85 octane,
with little fear of any penalty.

I recently learned that something similar is happening with soft drinks and what is marketed as 60% High Fructose Corn Syrup (HFCS60).

The rules allow a 20% variation in what is advertised,
so there is no citation if it actually tests in a government lab anywhere from 72% to 48%

Because Fructose tastes extra sweet to the tongue,
and may be what people get addicted to,
the cola companies routinely use
70% HFCS
and know that their internal quality control is good enough to keep it consistently below 72%

Re: Super duper MPG Ram project. [Re: 360view] #1477264
08/08/13 11:01 PM
08/08/13 11:01 PM
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Those O2 readings look just about useless.

Re: Super duper MPG Ram project. [Re: mopowered] #1477265
08/09/13 12:11 AM
08/09/13 12:11 AM
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Quote:

Those O2 readings look just about useless.




With older narrow band O2 sensors .9v was about full range and also about as rich as you can go without cooking the catalyst. Looks about right to me for a WOT run.

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