Lockup converter into a 727?
#1476864
07/31/13 08:54 AM
07/31/13 08:54 AM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 96
Nampa, Idaho
Wyle E Coyote
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I'm sure this has been covered before, but I couldn't find recent evidence of it in the search area. I want to know if a locking torque converter can be made to work in a 727. I now have an International TravelAll with the "727" in it, (special case to match the IH engine bolt pattern and made to accept a GM starter on the passenger's side), and I could use one more gear for highway travel. I've looked at overdrive transmissions, add-on boxes such as Gear Vendors, and everything is expensive and extensive to convert. Then I remembered something; for a brief period of time, didn't the 727's have a locking torque converter in them, before they built the actual overdrive equipped transmissions (A-500 and 508, or R46H)? If so, and if it's something I can make work, it may be the answer to my issue. Or is it that I'm just screwed?  Thanks everyone! 
25 Dodge Roadster
66 D100 440/727 (on 72 D100 chassis)
67 W200 360/727
72 IH TravelAll 1110 4x4 345/727/NP205
76 Scout 2 360/727/D20
'08 Dakota SLT Quad Cab 4wd 4.7L
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Re: Lockup converter into a 727?
[Re: Wyle E Coyote]
#1476865
07/31/13 08:59 AM
07/31/13 08:59 AM
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,406
New Jersey, USA
yella71
pro stock
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pro stock
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,406
New Jersey, USA
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you cant just put a lock up converter in the trans there is more to it than that.
71 challenger convertable, 64 sport fury 383 ci with factory air
99 sebring convertable
89 CTD pup
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Re: Lockup converter into a 727?
[Re: Wyle E Coyote]
#1476867
07/31/13 09:55 AM
07/31/13 09:55 AM
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 1,822
Colorado
denfireguy
top fuel
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top fuel
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Colorado
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I put an A999 in the Cuda. It is virtually identical to the 904 it replaced. There is another hydraulic circuit to activate the locking mechanism. It has an extra valve on the top of the valve body to control the lockup and some new passageways for the fluid to get to the converter.
BTW, the 999 does not have O/D, just lockup converter.
Craig
Last edited by denfireguy; 07/31/13 09:57 AM.
2014 Ram 1500 Laramie, 73 Cuda
Previous mopars: 62 Valiant, 65 Fury III, 68 Fury III, 72 Satellite, 74 Satellite, 89 Acclaim, 98 Caravan, 2003 Durango
Only previous Non-Mopar: Schwinn Tornado
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Re: Lockup converter into a 727?
[Re: meep_meep]
#1476870
07/31/13 04:53 PM
07/31/13 04:53 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,070
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
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Quote:
simply installing a lock up type converter will not give you another gear..The transmission must have the 4th/overdrive gear also for it to work...
This is not correct, before there was the 4 speed overdrives based on the 727/904 there was a lockup converter used on the 727/904. The activation of the lockup was different on the 727/904 vs. the OD variants.
You do not need to have an OD trans to have a lockup converter but you can not put a lockup converter on a NON lockup trans because the input is different , plus it has a different spline count.
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Re: Lockup converter into a 727?
[Re: JohnRR]
#1476871
07/31/13 05:11 PM
07/31/13 05:11 PM
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Joined: May 2012
Posts: 100
Tennessee
meep_meep
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Tennessee
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Quote:
Quote:
simply installing a lock up type converter will not give you another gear..The transmission must have the 4th/overdrive gear also for it to work...
This is not correct, before there was the 4 speed overdrives based on the 727/904 there was a lockup converter used on the 727/904. The activation of the lockup was different on the 727/904 vs. the OD variants.
You do not need to have an OD trans to have a lockup converter but you can not put a lockup converter on a NON lockup trans because the input is different , plus it has a different spline count.
no...my statement is correct pertaining to the OP's question...which was can i put a lock up converter in because "i could use another gear on the highway"....the 727 locking converter did not give you another gear, it simply locked up 3rd/final gear...he's asking if adding a locking converter will give him another gear, which it will not do...
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Re: Lockup converter into a 727?
[Re: meep_meep]
#1476872
07/31/13 05:15 PM
07/31/13 05:15 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,070
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
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U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
simply installing a lock up type converter will not give you another gear..The transmission must have the 4th/overdrive gear also for it to work...
This is not correct, before there was the 4 speed overdrives based on the 727/904 there was a lockup converter used on the 727/904. The activation of the lockup was different on the 727/904 vs. the OD variants.
You do not need to have an OD trans to have a lockup converter but you can not put a lockup converter on a NON lockup trans because the input is different , plus it has a different spline count.
no...my statement is correct pertaining to the OP's question...which was can i put a lock up converter in because "i could use another gear on the highway"....the 727 locking converter did not give you another gear, it simply locked up 3rd/final gear...he's asking if adding a locking converter will give him another gear, which it will not do...
What I bolded above reads ... to me ... like you are saying that using a lockup converter requires an OD trans .
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Re: Lockup converter into a 727?
[Re: JohnRR]
#1476873
07/31/13 05:23 PM
07/31/13 05:23 PM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 96
Nampa, Idaho
Wyle E Coyote
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Nampa, Idaho
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Quote:
Quote:
simply installing a lock up type converter will not give you another gear..The transmission must have the 4th/overdrive gear also for it to work...
This is not correct, before there was the 4 speed overdrives based on the 727/904 there was a lockup converter used on the 727/904. The activation of the lockup was different on the 727/904 vs. the OD variants.
You do not need to have an OD trans to have a lockup converter but you can not put a lockup converter on a NON lockup trans because the input is different , plus it has a different spline count.
Yeah, I know that a locking converter doesn't give me another "gear" specifically, though I do know they reduce your RPM's. I was hopeful that there was a way to do it, but I wasn't sure. At this rate, I'm looking at about $1500 to go with a 4L80 swap (including adapter kit and some fab for new mount, etc.), or over $3,000 for a gear vendors unit.  I guess I have some more research to do. 
Thanks guys!
25 Dodge Roadster
66 D100 440/727 (on 72 D100 chassis)
67 W200 360/727
72 IH TravelAll 1110 4x4 345/727/NP205
76 Scout 2 360/727/D20
'08 Dakota SLT Quad Cab 4wd 4.7L
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Re: Lockup converter into a 727?
[Re: Wyle E Coyote]
#1476874
07/31/13 06:01 PM
07/31/13 06:01 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,899
Rio Linda, CA
John_Kunkel
Too Many Posts
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Too Many Posts
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 25,899
Rio Linda, CA
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Another issue previously unmentioned is the case, the lockup case is larger inside to provide clearance for the lockup module on the valve body...merely adding the pump and input shaft won't make a pre-'87 727 into a lockup.
Not sure if the Cornbinder case was ever configured for lockup.
The INTERNET, the MISinformation superhighway
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Re: Lockup converter into a 727?
[Re: John_Kunkel]
#1476875
08/01/13 01:43 PM
08/01/13 01:43 PM
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 96
Nampa, Idaho
Wyle E Coyote
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Nampa, Idaho
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Quote:
Another issue previously unmentioned is the case, the lockup case is larger inside to provide clearance for the lockup module on the valve body...merely adding the pump and input shaft won't make a pre-'87 727 into a lockup.
Not sure if the Cornbinder case was ever configured for lockup.
Yeah, to my knowledge they weren't. Back in the day, if you wanted an overdrive setup, you could order the 5 speed manual. They were the ones used in the school busses as well. T98 and 99 if memory serves me. One was a 5 speed with direct 5th, and one was overdrive 5th. I'd consider that route if it weren't for two reasons:
1.) I drive a truck for a living, so when I get in my personal rig, the last thing I want to do is row the boat some more.
2.) I want to wife to enjoy driving it if she needs to use it. She's ok with a manual, but if it gets too truck-like, she will avoid it at all costs.
Then again,... If I went with a 5 & 4 combo with twin sticks,... that would be interesting. 
25 Dodge Roadster
66 D100 440/727 (on 72 D100 chassis)
67 W200 360/727
72 IH TravelAll 1110 4x4 345/727/NP205
76 Scout 2 360/727/D20
'08 Dakota SLT Quad Cab 4wd 4.7L
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