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Thoughts on engine vibration
#1470253
07/19/13 02:26 PM
07/19/13 02:26 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 374
Wisconsin
Mopar_Mudder
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I am just looking for some input on chacing down what I think is an engine vibrations. Here is what I have. 472 Hemi Alum Heads Mopar Performance # P5153737 Intake Stock Exhaust Manifolds Stock repoduction pulleys Stock Motor Mounts McLeod Billet Steel Flywheel Ram diaphragm pressure plate – 10.95” Ram dual friction surface performance disc Quick Time Bell Housing TKO-600 Transmission Energy Suspension Polyurethane Transmission Mount From the first time I started it I didn't think if felt right, seems alot of harmonics in the car but I didn't think much of it. Then the other day I got in my truck with a 440 built by the same builder and man that thing is smooth as silk all the way up to 7000. The vibration get worse as the RPM's increase, feels like the engine is running hard at 4000 or so. Vibration is thier with the clutch pushed in, it get worse with the clutch engauged and in neutral. I am going to check all the plugs tonight and see if everything look good their. Would any kind of miss or fuel problem cause this. I know originally I had an Orange box on it and switched to a Chrome and it seemed to get better. My next step, that I don't want to do, is to pull the exhaust and tranny  because I keep wondering if the flywheel would somehow not be running true, not sitting square to the crank or something. But for now I will check the plugs because I have a cruise to do this week end. Then if I find a bunch of ambition I will pull the tranny next week 
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Re: Thoughts on engine vibration
[Re: DAYCLONA]
#1470257
07/19/13 04:15 PM
07/19/13 04:15 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 374
Wisconsin
Mopar_Mudder
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Quote:
Sometimes it's the simplest of things before you go to far pulling the car apart, confirm the firing order of the plug wires/dist cap orientation, if it still has those MP blue ignition wires supplied on it, toss'em!.... 
IIRC you also installed a Hurst/Classic 5 spd, who supplied the McLeod flywheel? what's the balance?, and cranks balance?
The plug wires are FireCore brand. I have checked the fireing order, I assume that it is the standard V8 firing order right, 1-8-4-3-6-5-7-2
The tranny kit came from Toney Edler @ Hurts Driveline. Engine is internal Balance, Flywheel is suppose to be 0 balanced
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Re: Thoughts on engine vibration
[Re: autoxcuda]
#1470258
07/19/13 04:16 PM
07/19/13 04:16 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 374
Wisconsin
Mopar_Mudder
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Quote:
Does it have the vibrations with the car not moving?
Yes, everything I am talking about is not moving. In nuetral of with the clutch pushed in.
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Re: Thoughts on engine vibration
[Re: Mopar_Mudder]
#1470259
07/19/13 04:25 PM
07/19/13 04:25 PM
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Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 4,848
Memphis
HemiRick
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master
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Memphis
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What bellhousing? Was it checked for being centered behind the crank?
Take care,
Rick
68 Coronet R/T 440 & 68 Charger 528 Hemi,and 5 Challengers! 6 cyl, 318, 360, 383, 451
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Re: Thoughts on engine vibration
[Re: HemiRick]
#1470260
07/19/13 04:31 PM
07/19/13 04:31 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 374
Wisconsin
Mopar_Mudder
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Quote:
What bellhousing? Was it checked for being centered behind the crank?
It is a quick time and no it wasn't 
This was something I found out you were suppose to do after I had it all installed in the car, would have been way easy to do on the stand. Figured I would take a chance an hope for the best. The fact that the vibration is their when the clutch is pushed in leads me to belive that more then the bell housing is the problem. But I will check it if I pull it apart to check the flywheel.
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Re: Thoughts on engine vibration
[Re: Mopar_Mudder]
#1470261
07/19/13 06:43 PM
07/19/13 06:43 PM
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Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 75,043
U.S.S.A.
JohnRR
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I Win
Joined: Jan 2003
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U.S.S.A.
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Quote:
Quote:
What bellhousing? Was it checked for being centered behind the crank?
It is a quick time and no it wasn't
This was something I found out you were suppose to do after I had it all installed in the car, would have been way easy to do on the stand. Figured I would take a chance an hope for the best. The fact that the vibration is their when the clutch is pushed in leads me to belive that more then the bell housing is the problem. But I will check it if I pull it apart to check the flywheel.
Would have been easier to do with it not installed in the car but you would not have done it with the engine bolted to the stand.
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Re: Thoughts on engine vibration
[Re: Mopar_Mudder]
#1470262
07/19/13 11:42 PM
07/19/13 11:42 PM
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 18,157
Mass
DAYCLONA
I Live Here
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I Live Here
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Posts: 18,157
Mass
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Quote:
Quote:
What bellhousing? Was it checked for being centered behind the crank?
It is a quick time and no it wasn't
This was something I found out you were suppose to do after I had it all installed in the car, would have been way easy to do on the stand. Figured I would take a chance an hope for the best. The fact that the vibration is their when the clutch is pushed in leads me to belive that more then the bell housing is the problem. But I will check it if I pull it apart to check the flywheel.
RuH rOe....The QuickTime bells are notorious for being way off in run-out, and the Tremec is so sensitive to big run-out values, most times the QuickTime needs to be machined to obtain the required run-out specs, as offset dowels are limited in range, the Tremec can experience vibration, difficult 1st gear/reverse engagement if the input shaft is being sideloaded from excessive runout, not to mention rapid front retainer bearing wear/failure,....sorry guy, but you have to check the bell run-out, and do what's needed to get it under .005 max,...I generally shoot for .0015-.002 max, it's tedious to dial in, but it has to be done, what bearing are you running in the crank register for the input shaft?....are there any counter weights bolted to the flywheel's outer perimeter on the engine side?
Mike
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Re: Thoughts on engine vibration
[Re: DAYCLONA]
#1470265
07/20/13 10:49 AM
07/20/13 10:49 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 374
Wisconsin
Mopar_Mudder
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Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
What bellhousing? Was it checked for being centered behind the crank?
It is a quick time and no it wasn't
This was something I found out you were suppose to do after I had it all installed in the car, would have been way easy to do on the stand. Figured I would take a chance an hope for the best. The fact that the vibration is their when the clutch is pushed in leads me to belive that more then the bell housing is the problem. But I will check it if I pull it apart to check the flywheel.
RuH rOe....The QuickTime bells are notorious for being way off in run-out, and the Tremec is so sensitive to big run-out values, most times the QuickTime needs to be machined to obtain the required run-out specs, as offset dowels are limited in range, the Tremec can experience vibration, difficult 1st gear/reverse engagement if the input shaft is being sideloaded from excessive runout, not to mention rapid front retainer bearing wear/failure,....sorry guy, but you have to check the bell run-out, and do what's needed to get it under .005 max,...I generally shoot for .0015-.002 max, it's tedious to dial in, but it has to be done, what bearing are you running in the crank register for the input shaft?....are there any counter weights bolted to the flywheel's outer perimeter on the engine side?
Mike
To answer JohnRR's question I have the complete motor tranny bolted together on a stand to put in the car. Did not mean on an engine stand.
I learnd of the checking runout after it was installed so I took a chance, this is my first time dealing with an aftermarket bell housing, never crossed my mind that they weren't made correctly but I should have known better. I will deffinetly dial it in if it needs to come apart.
As for the tranny all shifts and everthing are very good and no problems getting into gears. Sorry I don't know what the pilot bearing is, but it is a bearing and not a bushing.
No counter weights on the flywheel
I checked the plugs last night. The front 4 look really rich, back 4 slightly rich. Plugs are NGK BKR5E, and NAPA only had 5 so I replaced what I could. Going for drive today and will try and check in the moring again.
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Re: Thoughts on engine vibration
[Re: rapom]
#1470268
07/23/13 03:32 PM
07/23/13 03:32 PM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 374
Wisconsin
Mopar_Mudder
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Quote:
Sounds like an engine balance problem. Not sure if your engine is externally balanced or internally balanced. Externally balanced engines are harder to get right than an internally balanced one. On an externally balanced engine it makes a difference when its balanced and the dampener isn't bolted all the way on the crank. That's what my engine builder told me.
I have the same issue with a 360/406 stroker build but doesn't sound as bad as yours. Next thing I would try is a different dampener or a fluidampenr. If that don't work its time to tear down the engine.
It is internally balanced. It was built and dyno tunned so I would think the engine would be OK, but you never know. I wasn't their when it was run on the dyno.
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Re: Thoughts on engine vibration
[Re: rck850]
#1470272
07/24/13 10:22 AM
07/24/13 10:22 AM
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 374
Wisconsin
Mopar_Mudder
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Quote:
I chased around a vibration like yours on my Roadrunner. After all my trouble I decided to take the clutch fan off and drive around. To my surprise the vibration was gone. Just a thought since I never saw it mentioned.
I don't even have the crank pulley on, so no fan spinning.
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