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Re: Comp XE274H-10 good repl.for 284/.484 purple? [Re: RobX4406] #1456680
06/25/13 12:59 PM
06/25/13 12:59 PM
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Thanks to whoever posted the rebuttal to Comp's in(s)ane claim, clearly a tech rep who doesn't know his stuff!

Nothing wrong with Hughes, IIRC their latest (meaning the HEH) ultra-agressive lobes are even faster than Comp's HL lobes. For example, Hughes HEH 228 lobe has 0.524 lift, while the Comp XE275HL uses 231 degrees to get 0.525" lift.If you use Hughes cams, IMHO you MUST use their spring package. There's little margin for error. Of course, pushing the edge of the envelope is what makes more power. No free lunch in the High Perf world!

My recommendation of the XE275HL cam was based on the OP's claim to like the 484 cam. If I was picking a cam without hearing that, I'd pick a significantly smaller cam. A 383 is really easy to overcam, and a 484 is at least 4 steps too big for a street type 383. A few years ago Dwayne Porter said that Comp had designed some smaller "HL" lobes, but you had to ask for them.
Usually, better heads will require less cam to make the same power. So if the OP is going to use Stealths, then the game changes.

Hughes HEH2328BL will really rock in that combination.

R.

Last edited by dogdays; 06/25/13 01:06 PM.
Re: Comp XE274H-10 good repl.for 284/.484 purple? [Re: dogdays] #1456681
06/25/13 02:52 PM
06/25/13 02:52 PM
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Western Washington
Sixgun Offline OP
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Yes, that all may be true, however it really is all in the eye of the beholder.The car pulled like a freight train even after the 4.10 detroit got swapped for a 3.55.I liked how it ran, I liked how it sounded.I am not wanting to re-invent the wheel at this time.
Is there a lot better stuff out there? YES!
Do I want to buy it all right now? NO!
I am all for information sharing, that's why I come here.I also call various tech reps, consult my best friend the Master machinist (aerospace but built many motors), and balance it against my experiences, past and current.
Ken at Hughes could not offer me a "comparable" cam without a serious lift increase.All the decent grinds are over .500 lift.IIRC he said he'd have to go all the way back to a grind like dogdays mentioned to get what I was looking for.
As the stealths are 'on the table', if 440 source is recommending THIS VERY GRIND (274)to a lot of their customers, someone should call them and tell them they are wrong on this.
The Comp rep now, well they are there to sell cams.Their stuff is OK.
He did not insist I had to have their springs, and politely told me what they wanted for poundage, seat and open.He did not care much for anything past .500 given what I actually DO know about this motor,(not much, really).
My last two RBs (446 and 500 mega)had custom solids ground by Lunati for specific engine/chassis.I can and will do that when I can.
This goes back to the days of my T/A 340 block.
I'm sure the mild 280 crower was a good grind, but it didn't have the sound, and it didn't pull real strong mid and top end.
Swapped in the crane blazer, and it was a whole different car,picked up that heavy '70 chall like it was made of paper.And it sounded GREAT!
Gotta go with the best decision you can make given the information you have at the time, and the budget you are under.No disrespect to anyone, it is my car and presumably I will sink or swim on the choices I make.Maybe I'll even learn something?

Keywords:daily driver,unknown bottom half,
tight budget, good power band with current cam,
not my first rodeo.

Re: Comp XE274H-10 good repl.for 284/.484 purple? [Re: Sixgun] #1456682
06/25/13 04:33 PM
06/25/13 04:33 PM
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Gainesville,FL
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Again call Tim @ Bullet cams,I'd tell you which lobes to use but I would be attacked by the more lift .904 lobe crowd. With a hyd cam I do not agree that more is better unless the RPM's are kept low or your willing to go way out of your way for 5 hp. Tim has lobes that will not require valvetrain tricks,not cause noise as some cams do and make plenty of power. If you want a true .904 lobe he has them as well.

Re: Comp XE274H-10 good repl.for 284/.484 purple? [Re: goldmember] #1456683
06/25/13 08:40 PM
06/25/13 08:40 PM
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junction city oregon
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viperblue72 Offline
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As for not choosing a cam based on a .904 lifter size? Those are very aggressive cams, and I would be very concerned about longevity and especially break in for one. Something based on a Ford diameter, maybe. But even something with a .904 tappet in mind, its going to gain him 15hp at best. Not worth the potential risk.
There is nothing wrong with the comp xe line. They are still far better and more aggressive than the average cam.
If there are any of the comp profiles that don't impress me, it is the hydraulic roller profiles.

Re: Comp XE274H-10 good repl.for 284/.484 purple? [Re: viperblue72] #1456684
06/25/13 09:31 PM
06/25/13 09:31 PM
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Western Washington
Sixgun Offline OP
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Quote:

As for not choosing a cam based on a .904 lifter size? Those are very aggressive cams, and I would be very concerned about longevity and especially break in for one. Something based on a Ford diameter, maybe. But even something with a .904 tappet in mind, its going to gain him 15hp at best. Not worth the potential risk.
There is nothing wrong with the comp xe line. They are still far better and more aggressive than the average cam.
If there are any of the comp profiles that don't impress me, it is the hydraulic roller profiles.




I agree,and freely admit to not being an automotive engineer, or even a frequent builder/tester.The hydro roller numbers I see advertised have not lived up to the hype.A LOT of the serious"old school" hot rodders that I have learned stuff from personally lean towards solid roller stuff.They would LIKE to try a hydro, but can't seem to get what they want that way?
The silky smooth powerband and interesting profiles achievable 'under the nose' make it worth the whole bronze gear/adjusting/occasional armageddon-in-the-valve-train scenario.(I guess)
Hope the manufacturers gear up and make more of that stuff work in a hydro roller.(Lower cost and better longevity would be nice, too)Not that I am ready to warm up my visa anytime soon.
Jeez, I'm trying to use stuff I have to get the 'Runner back up without buying too much and duplicating
"serviceable" parts...
Again, thank you ALL!!!
Bear

Re: Comp XE274H-10 good repl.for 284/.484 purple? [Re: Sixgun] #1456685
06/26/13 12:08 AM
06/26/13 12:08 AM
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junction city oregon
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Sixgun, just curious what rpm you shifted at with the 284. I would guess it liked 63-6400?
Also curious how far down the pistons are.

Re: Comp XE274H-10 good repl.for 284/.484 purple? [Re: viperblue72] #1456686
06/26/13 04:30 AM
06/26/13 04:30 AM
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Western Washington
Sixgun Offline OP
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Nope.Have a 5,600 chip in it and haven't hit it yet in 8 months.
When I got it last year,thing was leaking oil,some from oil pump gasket, some from pan,some apparently from under heads (think the shim head gasket was losing oil as well as water )and I had very little confidence in it.When purchased (from a self-proclaimed "builder"no less)it had no bolts in the trans mount, the steering box was adjusted so far out the pitman arm rose up (WOW) so far the tie rod end was eating thru the nice hooker header, and the engine was resting on the drag link.No chip in the MSD at all.Slobbery rich Mighty D 850.Mostly bald BFGs in back.160 thermostat.Bad water pump.Guy was driving it around and had no clue all that stuff was messed up.
Now that I am in there,I see it seems to have some good pistons (no P/N), and always had good oil pressure (too much)
and is very clean inside with good cross hatch still visible on all bores, I think I'm OK to go on and put it back together and run it awhile.
You gotta understand when I say it ran "good",
my 1st string is a 452" six pack 4.10 4 speed .509 that used to run 12.80s in street trim,and my ex-race chall ran 11.40s with a 1.4 60 foot at 3500 lbs,4 speed, power windows and all.
Certainly not earth shattering in the company of those here, but I do know 'fast' from like my neighbors BS stock 350 80s camaro :-)
This 383 is the first one I've experienced that FEELS like a big block to me.
I will slide cal the piston depth tomorrow and let you know,as I am curious too.I can tell you it does not have much squeeze as it only pumped 135 psi (have to double check the shop wall, but thats what I remember)
That's part of the reason I considered the 284/484 9(or comparable)the upper limit for camming.Most of these mfgrs would like to see 160?
Thx, Bear

Last edited by Sixgun; 06/26/13 04:32 AM.
Re: Comp XE274H-10 good repl.for 284/.484 purple? [Re: Sixgun] #1456687
06/27/13 06:43 PM
06/27/13 06:43 PM
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Western Washington
Sixgun Offline OP
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The beat goes on...
viperblue, as near as my uneducated eye can read my primitive tools,(slide cal,feeler gauges as a cross check)the pistons are about .043 down in the hole.
The dampener TDC mark is literally 30' off, is OK I have a replacement handy already,
BUT the messed up part is the power shaft bushing CAME OUT with the OP drive !!!???
I immediately started thinking about plan B,
(have a crusty "overhaul shop"steel crank .030 440 set aside, minimum rings and bearings)
But my machinist bud wants to take a look, may be able to fix in place in the car.We shall see...
made the decision, Comp 274 coming, KS 2110 gasket set also.Need to locate a powershaft bushing for a reference.Anyone know the shaft to bushing final clearance off hand?
Thanks, C

Re: Comp XE274H-10 good repl.for 284/.484 purple? [Re: Sixgun] #1456688
06/27/13 07:45 PM
06/27/13 07:45 PM

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To install the bushing correctly, you need the tool on the left (the right hand tool is for removing the old bushing). After you drive the bushing in, as you pull the tool out, it will slightly expand the bushing to fit tightly in the block and also burnish the inside diameter for the correct fit.


Re: Comp XE274H-10 good repl.for 284/.484 purple? #1456689
06/27/13 08:00 PM
06/27/13 08:00 PM
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Western Washington
Sixgun Offline OP
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Thank you, 413!
I just got through an exhaustive search on that, found out it cannot be bought locally at all, no one can cross the pioneer #, or even FIND this bushing in their parts books!
Ordered a pioneer from amazon which to all research is supposed to be a bang-in-and-it-fits deal.Will definitely check that, for sure.
Case

Re: Comp XE274H-10 good repl.for 284/.484 purple? [Re: Sixgun] #1456690
06/28/13 02:00 PM
06/28/13 02:00 PM
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Bend,OR USA
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I use a stock oil pump drive to install the oil pump bushings, I drive the bushing in by using a long brass drift on top of the oil pump drive gear Works good, doesn't harm the bushings at all like trying to drive them in with the brass drift alone like I use to do You may want to use a file on the new Pioneer bushing to make a slight oil line across the top to allow oil to lube the bottom of the gear and bushing like the stocks one had It dosen't need to be very wide or deep, .020 by .015 or a little deeper


Mr.Cab Racing and winning with Mopars since 1964. (Old F--t, Huh)
Re: Comp XE274H-10 good repl.for 284/.484 purple? [Re: Cab_Burge] #1456691
06/28/13 03:43 PM
06/28/13 03:43 PM
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Western Washington
Sixgun Offline OP
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Very good, Mr.Cab, I will do that,sounds prudent.The one that spun in there also had a small groove down the bore,(vertically) ostensibly for the same reason.When I googled,I saw your old posts on this, took it all in, hoping for a trouble free fix.Bore still is round, as of last night,so awaiting the bushing.
Great talking to you,thanks for sharing what you know, not just about engines, either.
Aloha (for now...)
Bear

Re: Comp XE274H-10 good repl.for 284/.484 purple? [Re: Sixgun] #1456692
06/28/13 04:11 PM
06/28/13 04:11 PM
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Case...

(Still like my 'old' purple shaft just fine)...

A little compression, a little converter, a little gear...

Re: Comp XE274H-10 good repl.for 284/.484 purple? [Re: RSNOMO] #1456693
06/28/13 04:36 PM
06/28/13 04:36 PM
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Western Washington
Sixgun Offline OP
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Quote:

Case...

(Still like my 'old' purple shaft just fine)...

A little compression, a little converter, a little gear...




Ya know Jerry, I do too.Now that it's out, I cannot see where we thought it was starting to lose a lobe, although the wear pattern does look odd...
Anyway, I feel like I owe it to myself to at least experiment with a bit of "newer" tech just to see for myself if I'm missing out on anything.
Would have liked a wilder grind, or maybe a Hughes, but it necessitated too many changes for what is basically more of a "utility" hot rod.
3.55s, mystery stall,MVB forward pattern 727 stock internals, 3" exhaust w/flowmasters...it's just a 'good' all around car,want to keep it somewhat mild.I'm goanna be really PO'd if this 274 sounds like a stocker
Good to hear from you, Motor City madman!
Bear

Re: Comp XE274H-10 good repl.for 284/.484 purple? [Re: Sixgun] #1456694
06/29/13 06:18 PM
06/29/13 06:18 PM
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Spokane Valley, WA
Big Bad Bee Offline
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Boy... The negative stuff about Comp Cams... Last night I brought my new engine home. Yes, it has a XE274H in it. I sure hope those Chevy lobes don't tear the engine apart in the first hundred miles... Sheesh.

I chose that cam because everything I've heard nothing but positive about it. Word is it's a VERY good street cam. I'll let you know at the end of the month what I think once the engine is in and running.


I’m listening.
Re: Comp XE274H-10 good repl.for 284/.484 purple? [Re: Sixgun] #1456695
06/29/13 07:09 PM
06/29/13 07:09 PM
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Gainesville,FL
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It won't sound stock but maybe like a Singer sewing machine. Hope you love it.

Re: Comp XE274H-10 good repl.for 284/.484 purple? [Re: goldmember] #1456696
06/30/13 04:07 AM
06/30/13 04:07 AM
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Western Washington
Sixgun Offline OP
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Quote:

It won't sound stock but maybe like a Singer sewing machine. Hope you love it.




WOW! Waaaay too positive and encouraging!


Last edited by Sixgun; 06/30/13 04:12 AM.
Re: Comp XE274H-10 good repl.for 284/.484 purple? [Re: Big Bad Bee] #1456697
06/30/13 04:23 AM
06/30/13 04:23 AM
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Western Washington
Sixgun Offline OP
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Quote:

Boy... The negative stuff about Comp Cams... Last night I brought my new engine home. Yes, it has a XE274H in it. I sure hope those Chevy lobes don't tear the engine apart in the first hundred miles... Sheesh.

I chose that cam because everything I've heard nothing but positive about it. Word is it's a VERY good street cam. I'll let you know at the end of the month what I think once the engine is in and running.



Yeah, Bee, If all one hears is bad about a particular thing, well, one has to assume it's well... it's BAD!In this case,I felt it the info I got, both here and from reps, and even people who had no axe to grind warranted making the choice to go with the 274.
But in this instance (and many others, seems like)
the folks expressing opinions sometimes don't even make an attempt to be objective.
OK , so they didn't like it.Why? Was everything else in the setup optimized?Really???
Was it the exactly right timing, jetting, gearing, oil weight, lifter preload,barometric pressure whatever???
My stuff usually isn't!
I cannot remember having a super super quiet valvetrain.Seems like the older I get , the more I'm willing to accept 'close enough' as far as dialing everything in just right.It's never REALLY 'done'. I don't race stock eliminator, Garlits isn't here wanting to run for the money,
I want to enjoy more and fry less.It's a HOBBY!

Last edited by Sixgun; 06/30/13 04:29 AM.
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