had a detonation issue (66 Hemi engine - stock - rebuilt - 10.25:1 compression) - spoke to builder (who rebuilt the engine for the previous owner) who told me the engine likes about 5g per tank of racing fuel (leaded) to make it happy

OK

so looking at options buying a 55g drum is most economical - that leaves me with having an "open" drum of gas in the home garage - when i say open, it would be a small round opening (2-3" in diameter) with a hand pump screwed into it - idea being i pump 5g into a small sealed can and leave in back of car for the next fill up each time (gas in trunk is next question) - how dangerous would this be to have at home? - i would imagine that the pump has a gasket where it screws in to the drum and an internal seal so that fumes don't just continually seep out - but still?

should i then be afraid to do anything with a spark (i don't weld (although i have a cheap HF welder i have never used - but could one day) but have plumbed the compressor using a butane torch - would this now be out)?

the alternative, although more expensive, is to buy 10 or so 5g pails - each one would be completely sealed and when opened, used in its entirety

and what about the idea of driving around with a 5g jug (or sealed pail) in the trunk? - would you guys have a concern about doing that?

thx!

I would not be afraid of storing a 55 drum in my shop away from sparks and water. I would not leave the hand pump in the drum in between uses though. The pump is vented to the atmosphere, so it would not keep the drum sealed, only the 2" bung with rubber gasket would keep it sealed. Do not store the drum out side where water can puddle on top. The temperature changes will suck the water right past the gasket no matter how tight you have the bung. If the drum is outside then put something under the drum so it sits at a angle and no water can accumulate over the top of the bungs.

Racing fuels have a stabilizer added and it will store just fine for at least 2 years if in a sealed steel drum.

I like to put my drums on a drum cradle and dispense out of a brass gate valve with gravity into fuel jugs.

Also I have used air to dispense fuel, although is not the safest but works the fastest and slickest. I try to find pictures of my air dispenser. I filled hundreds of race jugs with it when I was racing, 8 a week. takes too long to gravity flow 8 jugs a week.

A hand pump in the top of a drum is awkward and does not work too well when the drum get's low because the drum wobbles all around when trying to use a hand pump in low level drum, plus they don't suck too well when the level is low.

C1 - thanks for the pointers on downfalls of a hand pump - would not have occurred to me - i like the idea of the drum dolly and gate valve - to be clear, the valve you are talking about is like this one? - it just screws into the bung (adapter needed)? - and the shut off valve keeps fumes from seeping out (i.e., it is not vented in any way)? - thx!


P.S. you say you would have no problem storing in your shop...is your shop attached to your house like my garage is? - if it were, would that change your answer?

This is a homemade air dispenser, you screw in the dispenser pipe/hose and shut off valve into the 2" opening.
They you install the air fitting into the 3/4" opening.

Then I open the valve on the discharge pipe and put the clear hose into my fuel jug. Then I carefully crack open the ball valve for the air and bleed 5-10# of air pressure into the drum. The fuel goes up the suction/discharge pipe and out into my fuel jugs with the drum standing up. Never apply more than 3-5 psi in a drum, anymore than that can cause the drum to rupture. I shutoff the air first before the jug get's full and then close the other ball valve when the jug is full. I can fill 10 or 11 jugs the whole drum in about 5 minutes or so without spilling one drop.

I always emptied the drum each time I did it as we could use 50 gals of methanol in a weekend easy. We never hauled drum of race fuel in our race trailer, that is a bad idea.

This method could also be used to fill a car up, up hill from the drum with a longer discharge hose. Clear discharge hose allows me to see what I'm doing better. But with gasoline you should used a gas hose with a steel braid inside so the drum is grounded to whatever your filling with gasoline unless your filling plastic fuel jugs then it does not matter.

I have it setup now with a quick disconnect for my shop air and I empty the drum all at once.

There was a time where I used nitrogen to push the fuel out, and left methanol in the drum, but that got expensive when the nitrogen leaked. So I have been using shop air for 20 years now. FYI

I used balls valves here because they open and close fast and if they leak a little it's not while I'm not there.

Yes a valve like that, it seals good and won't wear out like a ball valve will, screw a street 90 into it along with a short nipple to screw into your drum. Crack open the 2" bung to vent the drum while your dispensing. Also a gate valve is much less likely to be bumped open like a ball valve could.

In a corner away from your work area I would not have problem keeping it in a attached garage.

But if there are any ignition sources nearby like a water heater, NO WAY!! would I keep it inside in case the drum leaked and they do sometimes at the seams.

thx

When I had bracket cars, I bought race gas in a 55 gal drum. I stored it upright with both plugs tight. Fuel in a drum is probably safer than fuel in most automotive gas tanks, so I stored it in a corner near a door.
To get fuel out, I took an extra plug (the large one), brazed in two pieces of copper tube, 4" of 3/8" and 2" of 1/4", then added some 3/8" fuel line on both ends of the large tube for a fuel pick-up and a supply hose. Put a little pressure (doesn't take much) in the drum with an air hose thru the smaller tube and it will fill a 5 gal jug in a minute or so. It will still syphon without pressure so you could install a ball valve to shut it down quickly if you wanted. I let the pressure out when it was getting near full then just pinched the hose off.
I mixed in 20% 93 pump gas to stretch it so one drum would last me all year. I never noticed a performance drop off between the first fresh gal to the last one. I kept the plugs tight and drum sealed.

You might want to look around your area and see if anyone sells it at a local gas station. That way you could take your car and pump some in or just take fuel jugs there.

this would be ideal...unfortunately, nothing local

Not what you asked I know... but do you really need race gas for 'only' 10.25:1? 12:1+ I would expect to need it. What are the motors specs?

HW - great question - i was also under the impression that level of compression would not require it - but the engine builder was clear that it did - what i took away from the conversation was that the timing curve required this - the specs are attached

NOTHING about decking the block or cutting and CCing the heads .... I think your engine builder needs to go back to school.

Doc - time for new glasses! - eighth line down..."60. off deck surface..." - i think this is what you mean when you say "decking the block," right?

also, the guy has a pretty good reputation:

Name - Tony Depillo
The original Honkin' Hemi, 1st SS/B in the 8's Natl' Record Holder at Bowling Green Ky

here is another link on Tony

http://www.pro-system.com/assaultshow.html

really nice guy - he is strictly a hemi engine rebuilder - that's his living

in fact, Arias piston had him design the street hemi piston they sell - the guy he worked with is now on his own...i'l track his name down

If you're willing to give up a few ponies you might try pulling a few degrees of advance out of it to see if its happy on the best pump gas in your area...

Right - that is the other way to go

Tony referred to that as castrating the engine

Although there is some risk storing fuel in an attached garage vs not, and your insurance co would likely not like it, you biggest risk is mainly when transferring the fuel out and into the drum, that task needs to done with required caution.

right - thx

I've built and blueprinted severakl 426 Street hemi and street and strip hemi as well as several blown street Hmei. It would be nice to know if he figured out the actual true mechanical compression ratio and if he checked the CC on all eight combustion chambers while checking the compression ratio(including pouring each cylinder with the piston dome down below the deck to determine the true dome volume on the pistons), I've seen 4 CC varience on the chambers on one head Several different things can contribute to detonation, regadless of the fuel used and the compression ratio, spark plug heat range, ignition timing, sharp edges in the combustion chambers,(valve edges ) especially on the exhaust valves, the ambient outside airtemperatuures, humidity, the barometric pressure, the actual altitude and the air density outside that day I'm suprised that your having detonation issues with your motor, is there any chance that you got some bad pump gas or had some old bad fuel in the tank to start with? BTW, the first NHRA legal 426 Street Hemi stocker motor I built and race by myself ran under the existing NHRA A/S record on the third run at the 1975 NHRA Winternationals If you check my past posts you will see me commonly referr to those motors as 426 Hemiriods