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Help with surge when cruising #1447690
06/04/13 09:09 PM
06/04/13 09:09 PM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 323
Endicott, NY, USA
crazyjjk Offline OP
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crazyjjk  Offline OP
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Endicott, NY, USA
I have a 37 Dodge with a 360 Magnum motor that is basically stock other than an Eldebrock manifold and an 600 cfm Eldebrock performer carb. Just recently the engine developed this mild surge while I am cruising at a constant rpm. When I start out easy it also hesitates slightly right when I start out then wants to really get up and go with no in between. It accelerates fine and I only feel the surge when at a constant rpm. Changed the external inline filter so its not that. It is driving me bonkers trying to figure it out. Any suggestions?

Re: Help with surge when cruising [Re: crazyjjk] #1447691
06/04/13 09:12 PM
06/04/13 09:12 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,344
Central TX
roe Offline
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roe  Offline
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Central TX
When mine had a surge, my timing was retarded way too much, and my tune was off because of a clogged up carb.



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Re: Help with surge when cruising [Re: crazyjjk] #1447692
06/04/13 09:22 PM
06/04/13 09:22 PM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
Circle Track
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Lincoln Nebraska
Quote:

Just recently the engine developed this mild surge while I am cruising at a constant rpm. When I start out easy it also hesitates slightly right when I start out Any suggestions?


Might have developed a vacuum leak (intake gasket)


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Re: Help with surge when cruising [Re: RapidRobert] #1447693
06/04/13 10:40 PM
06/04/13 10:40 PM
Joined: Feb 2010
Posts: 1,645
Phila. Pa.
Mattax Offline
top fuel
Mattax  Offline
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Posts: 1,645
Phila. Pa.
Surge is excessive lean condition.
Continue identifying under what conditions it occurs, and then there are only a few possibilities.
As Robert suggests, could be a leak develop in the intake or carb gaskets.
Could be dirt in the main jets or passages.
Could be change in fuel, temperatures, or something and it was just borderline before. In that case, adjust the carb for richer cruise (see your Eddy manuals).

Last edited by Mattax; 06/04/13 10:41 PM.
Re: Help with surge when cruising [Re: Mattax] #1447694
06/04/13 10:46 PM
06/04/13 10:46 PM
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Wherever I am.
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Junky Offline
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I had that happen to my 383 along time ago when it was basically stock with a 600 Edelbrock. I had the idle jets turned in too much. Yep. Cranked them out about a 1/4 to 1/2 turn (can't remember which) and all was well.


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Re: Help with surge when cruising *DELETED* [Re: Junky] #1447695
06/04/13 11:28 PM
06/04/13 11:28 PM
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Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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Re: Help with surge when cruising [Re: RapidRobert] #1447696
06/05/13 09:04 AM
06/05/13 09:04 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 323
Endicott, NY, USA
crazyjjk Offline OP
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crazyjjk  Offline OP
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Joined: Jul 2012
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Endicott, NY, USA
Thanks to everyone who replied. Going to first check the timing and vacuum. If that doesn't help will tackle seeing if the carb is running lean.

Re: Help with surge when cruising [Re: crazyjjk] #1447697
06/05/13 10:02 AM
06/05/13 10:02 AM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 15,907
Central Florida
larrymopar360 Offline
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Central Florida
FWIW, my Magnum 360 crate engine surges slightly at cruising speed when I have vacuum advance connected. Tried tuning a little with it connected but found it just runs better and doesn't surge with the vac advance disconnected.


Facts are stubborn things.
Re: Help with surge when cruising [Re: larrymopar360] #1447698
06/05/13 10:11 AM
06/05/13 10:11 AM
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 36,041
Lincoln Nebraska
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RapidRobert Offline
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Lincoln Nebraska
Quote:

FWIW, my Magnum 360 crate engine surges slightly at cruising speed when I have vacuum advance connected. Tried tuning a little with it connected but found it just runs better and doesn't surge with the vac advance disconnected.


Vac adv changes 3 things: the amount of extra advance obviously and rotor phasing & I would suggest checking RP & correcting it if need be as the eng may actually like the extra timing from the VA. The third is reluctor gap & I'd set it at .008" using a vac pump till the magnet is the closest which likely will be at max vacuum then set it .008" at that position


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Re: Help with surge when cruising [Re: RapidRobert] #1447699
06/05/13 07:08 PM
06/05/13 07:08 PM
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 653
montana
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pjc360 Offline
mopar
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Also when checking for vaccum leaks, don't forget to check around the throttle shafts on that edelbrock carburetor. I bought a brand new edelbrock thunder series 650cfm and within 2 months it developed a vaccum leak at the primary throttle shaft. I had to send my carburetor off to a carburetor shop so they could install teflon bushings on the throttle shaft's.

Re: Help with surge when cruising [Re: crazyjjk] #1447700
06/05/13 07:21 PM
06/05/13 07:21 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 28,312
Cincinnati, Ohio
Challenger 1 Offline
Too Many Posts
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Cincinnati, Ohio
I'll bet you are running a 1406 carb and that thing is lean as heck from the factory. Then add 10% ethanol and you are really lean. That surely will cause a surge. Put some smaller needles/larger jets in it and enjoy the new found performance.

Right out of the box a 1406 needs to be richened no matter what motor you bolt it on, imo.

Re: Help with surge when cruising [Re: Challenger 1] #1447701
06/06/13 12:24 AM
06/06/13 12:24 AM
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 12,043
State of Confusion
hp383 Offline
Just a normal tag again
hp383  Offline
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State of Confusion
Also check this...

Quote:

NO: 18-08-93 Rev. A
SUBJECT: Engine Buck, Surge Or Noise - Oil Pump Drive Gear Wear
DATE: Nov. 26, 1993
THIS BULLETIN SUPERSEDES TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN 18-08-93, ISSUED ON
6/18/93, WHICH SHOULD BE REMOVED FROM YOUR FILES. THIS BULLETIN ADDS
CAUTIONS TO THE PROCEDURE, WHICH ARE HIGHLIGHTED WITH **ASTERISKS** AND
PRINTED IN RED.

SYMPTOM/CONDITION:
Vehicle exhibits warm engine surging, light bucking, or cold engine lack of
power or burst spark knock. Engine noises (light knock or tapping sound at
rear of engine) may also be experienced with no driveability complaint.
These conditions may be caused by excessive oil pump drive gear wear.

DIAGNOSIS:
Remove the distributor cap and grasp the rotor and using a rotational
motion, check the total clockwise/counter-clockwise movement at the rotor
tip. If the rotor tip movement is 5.0 mm (3/16") or more, proceed with the
following repair procedure.

PARTS REQUIRED:
Quantity
Part No.
Description

1

53020546
Oil Pump Drive Gear

1

01737725
Block Bushing

REPAIR PROCEDURE:
This bulletin involves replacing the oil pump drive gear with a revised part
and the

drive gear block bushing.

1.. Remove distributor and distributor/oil pump drive gear block bushing
as outlined in the appropriate service manual.
**NOTE: TOOL NUMBER C-3052 (DISTRIBUTOR DRIVE SHAFT BUSHING PULLER) MUST
BE USED TO REMOVE DISTRIBUTOR/OIL PUMP DRIVE GEAR AND TOOL NUMBER C 3053
(DISTRIBUTOR DRIVE SHAFT BUSHING DRIVER/BURNISHER) MUST BE USED TO INSTALL
THE NEW DISTRIBUTOR/OIL PUMP DRIVE GEAR BUSHING.**

2.. Install new drive gear block bushing P/N 01737725 and revised oil pump
drive gear P/N 53020546 as outlined in the appropriate service manual.
**NOTE: THE CORRECT POSITION FOR THE DISTRIBUTOR/OIL PUMP DRIVE GEAR
BUSHlNG IS SHOWN BELOW.**(See Illustration)

3.. Change engine oil and filter.
4.. Perform the required distributor indexing procedure as outlined in the
appropriate service manual or use the alternate procedure outlined in steps
5-9.
ALTERNATE DISTRIBUTOR INDEXING PROCEDURE

5.. Connect a voltmeter to the distributor sensor connector by removing
the end seal and carefully back probing the connector. Connect the positive
lead to the sensor output pin (pin 3, either a tan wire with a yellow tracer
or a gray wire, depending on vehicle application). Connect the negative lead
to the sensor ground pin (pin 2, a black wire with a light blue tracer).
6.. Rotate the engine clockwise as viewed from the front, until the number
one mark piston Top (TDC) compression on the vibration damper should line up
with the zero degree (TDC) mark on the timing chain case cover.
7.. Continue to rotate the engine slowly clockwise until the V6 or V8 mark
(depending on engine type) lines up with the zero degree (TDC) mark on the
timing chain case cover. The V8 mark is 17.5°after TDC and the V6 mark is
147° after TDC.
NOTE: DO NOT ROTATE THE ENGINE COUNTER CLOCKWISE. IF THE ENGINE IS ROTATED
BEYOND THE MARK, RETURN TO STEP 6 AND REPEAT THE PROCEDURE.

8.. With the distributor clamp bolt loose and the ignition switch in the
ON position, rotate the distributor slightly in either direction until the
voltmeter switches between the sensor transition point of 0 and 5 volts.
9.. Adjust the distributor as close as possible to either side of this
transition point and tighten the distributor clamp bolt to 170-230 in. lbs.
(19-26 Nm).
POLICY:
Reimbursable within the provisions of the warranty.





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Re: Help with surge when cruising [Re: Challenger 1] #1447702
06/06/13 08:55 AM
06/06/13 08:55 AM
Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 323
Endicott, NY, USA
crazyjjk Offline OP
enthusiast
crazyjjk  Offline OP
enthusiast

Joined: Jul 2012
Posts: 323
Endicott, NY, USA
Thanks again for all the help. Put a vacuum gauge on it last night and both manifold and carb vacuum was approximately 16 inches so it appears there are no vacuum leaks. Timing is good to looks like I will try making the a little richer.







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